2014 NFL QB Discussion Thread

[Rocky]

I think it's a little bit of both with Brady.

Honestly, Brady put up eye-popping stats when he has the talent to do so his whole career. When he had healthy, primed Moss/Welker/Hernandez/Gronk, he's obviously going to put up better numbers than he is without those guys. It may just be that we are seeing something closer to Tom Brady in those earlier years before the big numbers and we haven't been used to that in a while.

The difference is that Brady wasn't throwing the ball 30 times a game back then like he is now. He's not going to shoulder a Brees or Manning workload without the weapons they have at this age.

[darkknightrises]

Quote: Originally Posted by Scott812313

Brady is absolutely a QB in decline, that's not debatable. Look at his YPA and just watch him play, he's not even close to as good as he used to be. He crumbles under pressure, like most QB's do, the difference is that he's almost always enjoyed a stellar O-Line, coached by a future HOFer. When people compare Brady and Manning they always want to act like Manning had such better weapons around him, I'd argue that Brady has had a better head coach, defense and O-Line than Manning has, almost every single year he's played. Brady, nor anyone else in the league today, is close to as valuable a QB as Manning is. Also, Manning goes down and the Colts go from 11-12 wins guaranteed, to the #1 pick in the draft. Brady gets hurt in '08 and the Pats still win 11 games.

Hit the nail on the head! People act like Peyton has had more weapons and that is not true really true. Brady has had a much better O-Line and coach then Peyton almost ever year of his carrier. Yes Peyton has had better WR for most of his carrier but it is not like Brady has had no one to pass to either like people try to act like. Peyton has had a mediocre Defense just about ever year of his carrier to. How many times in his carrier has Peyton's teams been like 25 or worse in both yards given up and in points given up a game? Tom he had moss for a few years and he had WES Welker a great and way underrated WR and he has one of the best TE to pass the ball to the last few years so no Brady has had some great guys to pass the ball to but people act like he hasn't. People act like Brady is so clutch but go back and watch the 5 super bowls and he sucked in 2 of them and was only good in 2 yet peyton who has been in 2 super bowls and played good in the first 1 and ok in the second one is so unclutched lol not true. Peyton completely out played Tom last year in the playoffs. Tom has alrease missed a few passes a game that Peyton just doesn't miss and now Tom is missing even more pass. Week 1 this year tom missed 5 or 6 passes that Peyton could make in his sleep. If you where to give Peyton the things that Brady has had Peyton's stats would be even better and he would have like 5 championships compared to the 3 that Brady has won.

[Scott812313]

Quote: Originally Posted by moylan1234

I watch every game he's not in any decline at all his game hasn't really changed from what it's always been. What's changed is the parts around him. Dynasty years Pats yes I won't argue he had all those benefits you mentioned. The last four, no not even close any Pat fan can tell you that. The 2nd NY Super Bowl we really didn't have any right to be there our defense got scored on seemingly at will. People love to bring up the years when they were both out, but we had Cassel wherever you rank him average QB or slightly below he still blows anyone the Colts had out of the water. Also yes obviously our coaching staff was better. Dungy had already moved on if I'm not mistaken when Manning got hurt. With Dungy in play the coaching staffs were a wash in my opinion. Also, 2008 was a favorable schedule for us. Got the NFC west before it blew up. Cassel won a game in Seattle, does anyone think that would happen today? Finally, and most importantly we didn't tank the season in hopes of the number one pick the way the Colts did. Pretty unfair to compare those seasons. YPA doesn't tell the story you seem to think it does either. It was down last year and so far this. During that time he's had exactly one consistent reliable receiver to throw to in Edelman combined with the worst blocking he's seen during his career. Despite that and a depleted defense to boot he had his team one game away from a 6th Super Bowl appearance last year. So if that's declining then I can't wait to start declining myself. Again I'm perfectly willing to hear out the Brady in decline stuff as long as there's some actual evidence, but so far I haven't heard any. And with that I'm done this isn't a Brady thread or a Manning vs Brady thread there's other qbs to talk about, time to move on.

This was exactly my point, he's been subpar now for 2 seasons. I get it, you're a Pats fan and it sucks to see the best player in franchise history be a shell of himself, but that doesn't mean it's not happening right in front of your eyes. The Pats really blew the last few years of Brady's prime with not cashing in their draft picks on players that could contribute right away on the field, trading down and taking luxury picks (Mallett, Garrapolo) with fairly high choices, trading productive vets(Mankins, Seymour) with no real replacements in house. Now Brady isn't elite anymore and he has very limited support on the offensive side of the ball, with no vertical threat and a leaky O-Line, though the defense is pretty solid now. Don't worry, they'll still win 11-12 games and be a "favorite" for the Super Bowl, thanks to the dreadful division they play in, but they really bungled Brady's last few years imo.

[z Revis]

Brady needs weapons to flourish. It's been that way his whole career. I haven't seen much of him this year so I can't say if he's declining or not(although he is 37 years old, it wouldn't surprise me if he is), but I do know his supporting cast is the worst it's been in years.