Saga of RGIII

[wwharton]

Quote: Originally Posted by burter

I know what everyone is saying and I feel a lot of the same way, so I'm really confused in myself on why I want him on my cardinals. I'm not sure why I feel this way, but I really do think he would work really good in our system. Back in Baylor and first year in Washington, his deep ball was probably top 5 in the league. Like he was deadly with it. With the way we play, it would seem like he would be a great fit for us. But than you hear and read stuff about him and it's like do you really want to try? But more important than that is how he has regressed. Now it could be because he is trying really hard to be a pocket qb or it could be that he is nervous about running and getting injured again. In any case he just does not look like the guy from baylor and his rookie year. Now I do not think he is a bust. I think we need at least another year of him fully healthy and either a starter for the skins(even though I think they suck and for some reason everyone puts it on rg3) or get to a team that is good and see if he can make them great. Do you all think he would be a good fit for my team? Am I just being delusional?

If he bounces back he'd be a good fit for any team, really. That's just a very big IF right now. The way he looked this year wouldn't work on any team from the Jags to the Broncos.

[Bmore Irish]

Quote: Originally Posted by SPTO

Yeah, Jay Gruden isn't the one that wants RGIII to be an exclusive pocket passer as he's used read option in his offense with Cincy. Personally I think it's high time that the Redskins cut ties and start over. A change of scenery may slap some reality into RGIII as well and maybe he'd be a little more amenable to you know, actually listen to his coaches.

This is how I tend to view the situation. Fresh start is probably best for both sides, and it seems pretty clear Gruden isn't all that interested, though who knows how long he'll even be there.

[PeoplesChampGB]

Quote: Originally Posted by SPTO

I think weighing a bust against the team's investment does play a part. Another example of this (though it's not exactly the same) is the Herschel Walker trade. The Vikings thought "ok we need one final piece to get to the SB" so they look around and decide that Walker's their man. Now contrary to how some younger people might view it, Walker was still a premier RB in the league at the time and the expectation when the trade was made was that Minny were going to go to the SB within a year or two. Problem is, Minnesota gave up EVERYTHING while their head coach Jerry Burns didn't make one single adjustment for Walker. They kept running their regular offense which severely limited Walker's ability to shine. He was a bust in Minnesota and indeed it kind of derailed his career as he had a comeback year in '92 with Philly but quickly faded into being a part time player afterwards. As for Dallas....Well we know how that turned out.

That's on the organization, not on Walker. Walker didn't call them up one day and say, "Hey! I am the piece you need. Give all that you can to Dallas and I guarantee the Super Bowl!" Not Walker's fault at all. He was a bust, but he is not elevated because of what the Vikes gave up.

Just think of it this way. When you see the Herschel Walker story, do you ask "Why were the Vikings so dumb?" or "Why was Herschel Walker so dumb?"

[SPTO]

Quote: Originally Posted by PeoplesChampGB

That's on the organization, not on Walker. Walker didn't call them up one day and say, "Hey! I am the piece you need. Give all that you can to Dallas and I guarantee the Super Bowl!" Not Walker's fault at all. He was a bust, but he is not elevated because of what the Vikes gave up. Just think of it this way. When you see the Herschel Walker story, do you ask "Why were the Vikings so dumb?" or "Why was Herschel Walker so dumb?"

Well I guess in that respect maybe we should call the Redskins front office pretty dumb for giving up so much for a guy who had multiple red flags in the first place.

Either way unless RGIII turns it around quickly he's going to be among the top busts of all time. Personally everyone involved in this whole mess has to take some responsibility for what's happened.

[kehlis]

Walker is a terrible comparison to use in this conversation all together.

His rights were drafted in the fifth round when the landscape of football was completely different. I'm not sure how or why he was ever brought up in this conversation of being a bust since his situation is so far removed from the scenarios that are being discussed.

[Jr.]

Quote: Originally Posted by wwharton

But I wouldn't say a team that picks 2nd invests anymore than a team who picks 7th... that's just wear they pick. I know this situation isn't exactly like that bc they traded up for the pick, but it's still based on the expectations of the player. The only reason that changes on an individual level is if you didn't know much about the player before hand. You hear a player is being picked early and/or someone is trading picks to get him and YOUR expectations may raise, but that's just bc you went from uninformed to informed. Personally I don't think a player can be a bust, and then later not be a bust. He can be considered a bust, and if he turns it around, then he was incorrectly classified as one. So with that in mind, the team investment angle doesn't work. That angle would say that if Sanchez has the same career trajectory in PHI as he had on the Jets, he was a bust but then later wasn't (bc the Jets invested A LOT more in him than PHI). The way I look at it, he either continues being inconsistent and not developing (and is considered a bust across the board) or he continues playing well and grows on the Eagles (and shows that he's not a bust, but didn't get it all together on the Jets for various reasons).

I just disagree with the notion that two teams picking at a certain spot are investing the same if one team had to trade to get there. The team that picks at #2 because they went 2-14 invests a lot, but the team that picks at #2 because they traded 3 1sts and 2 2nds invested more in my mind.

They gave up 4 potential players for 1 player.

My viewpoint also leads me to disagree with your belief about Sanchez. He busted for the Jets because of the expectations associated with being picked in the top 15 and the investment the team made. With the Eagles, there aren't really any expectations, so if he plays like he did before there is nothing lost because the investment was very minimal.

[PeoplesChampGB]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jr.

I just disagree with the notion that two teams picking at a certain spot are investing the same if one team had to trade to get there. The team that picks at #2 because they went 2-14 invests a lot, but the team that picks at #2 because they traded 3 1sts and 2 2nds invested more in my mind. They gave up 4 potential players for 1 player. My viewpoint also leads me to disagree with your belief about Sanchez. He busted for the Jets because of the expectations associated with being picked in the top 15 and the investment the team made. With the Eagles, there aren't really any expectations, so if he plays like he did before there is nothing lost because the investment was very minimal.

Or we can say that he "busted" for the Jets because the Jets have been disfunctional for a long while now while the Eagles have a more stable environment and have proven to be more successful. This isn't Madden where a "75 OVR QB" plays the same no matter what team he is on.

[Jr.]

Quote: Originally Posted by PeoplesChampGB

Or we can say that he "busted" for the Jets because the Jets have been disfunctional for a long while now while the Eagles have a more stable environment and have proven to be more successful. This isn't Madden where a "75 OVR QB" plays the same no matter what team he is on.

Wait, wait, wait.




I haven't been watching people play Madden on TV this whole time?

Anyway.. it's not like Sanchez is lighting the world on fire. He's showing that he is pretty much the same guy he was in New York, in a more QB friendly offense. But now, it doesn't matter because he's a backup playing because of injury, not the team's 1st round pick.