Elite QB vs. Game Manager: A Disccussion

[Bmore Irish]

I think Alex Smith would be an interesting guy to breakdown as far as a guy with a game manager label, especially since he was a pretty highly regarded player coming out of college.

[ggsimmonds]

Quote: Originally Posted by redsox4evur

Let the debate begin. I think he is honestly. He made what 5 or 6 straight playoffs and won a road game in all of them. He's got a SB.

Depends on what is meant by elite.

To me, elite means best of the best; an elite QB is in the discussion for being the best. Joe is not in the group. He is probably right outside, or arguably just inside, the top 5, but to be elite you need to be top 3 in my opinion.

I always remember Clayton from ESPN and how he labels almost half the starting QBs as being elite.

[Candyman5]

I think Flacco is a average season QB but a elite playoff QB.

[wwharton]

Quote: Originally Posted by ggsimmonds

Depends on what is meant by elite. To me, elite means best of the best; an elite QB is in the discussion for being the best. Joe is not in the group. He is probably right outside, or arguably just inside, the top 5, but to be elite you need to be top 3 in my opinion. I always remember Clayton from ESPN and how he labels almost half the starting QBs as being elite.

I don't even think you can put a number on it. There could be years with 5 or 6 elite QBs and seasons with just 1. A QB I'd call elite will have to have proven it on a consistent basis. That's tricky bc my criteria has Peyton and his increasing inconsistency as elite but Luck not quite yet just bc of sample size.

Flacco still has too many head scratcher regular season games to be in that group. It's one thing to go up against a tough D and it kills your stats but he just has random games where he's personally off. He's also made bad audibles, tried to force passes, not properly read the D... all things he's consistently gotten better with over the years. So he has a chance to make that leap if he can put it all together on a weekly basis, but he hasn't reached that point yet.

[Bmore Irish]

Yeah, have to agree that inconsistency keeps Joe out of the "elite" conversation. It's baffling the way he can seamlessly transition from looking damn near incompetent to looking like a world beater.

[slickdtc]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bmore Irish

I think Alex Smith would be an interesting guy to breakdown as far as a guy with a game manager label, especially since he was a pretty highly regarded player coming out of college.

Alex Smith is my baseline for game manager QB's. When I say game manager, I mean more efficient (high completion rate due to dink and dunking, low INT/fumble numbers). A lot of people think "just a guy" who happens to be along for the ride. That's Dilfer to me. I don't think Brad Johnson fits that on the 02 Bucs, though I'm not sure he was a game manager either.

The QB landscape is so interesting right now with your couple of HOF bound QB's still kicking into their mid-late 30's, some exciting young QB's who are knocking at the door, and a couple of incumbents who are pretty good but have shown they can go either way on any given Sunday.

For me, a lot of it has to do with coaching and personnel, with a major emphasis on these things being contributing factors when the QB comes in to the league. Some guys are going to be what they are no matter what (good or bad), but I think some guys careers have been sabotaged due to bad management of their abilities and career. I mean, every now and then we get a Rich Gannon who toiled for a while before eventually becoming a really good QB in his later years. What happened and why did it take so long? And who are players who could run that same career arc, or who could've but didn't stick around long enough to find out?

The great mystery of sports, and particularly football. It's almost like the chicken or egg; does the QB make the players around him or vice versa? Coaches? Whole organizations (Pats without Brady?)

Good to have a thread like this I think. Let's try not to devolve this into jWill and Russell Wilson and keep it constructive.

[oneamongthefence]

Quote: Originally Posted by slickdtc

Alex Smith is my baseline for game manager QB's. When I say game manager, I mean more efficient (high completion rate due to dink and dunking, low INT/fumble numbers). A lot of people think "just a guy" who happens to be along for the ride. That's Dilfer to me. I don't think Brad Johnson fits that on the 02 Bucs, though I'm not sure he was a game manager either. The QB landscape is so interesting right now with your couple of HOF bound QB's still kicking into their mid-late 30's, some exciting young QB's who are knocking at the door, and a couple of incumbents who are pretty good but have shown they can go either way on any given Sunday. For me, a lot of it has to do with coaching and personnel, with a major emphasis on these things being contributing factors when the QB comes in to the league. Some guys are going to be what they are no matter what (good or bad), but I think some guys careers have been sabotaged due to bad management of their abilities and career. I mean, every now and then we get a Rich Gannon who toiled for a while before eventually becoming a really good QB in his later years. What happened and why did it take so long? And who are players who could run that same career arc, or who could've but didn't stick around long enough to find out? The great mystery of sports, and particularly football. It's almost like the chicken or egg; does the QB make the players around him or vice versa? Coaches? Whole organizations (Pats without Brady?) Good to have a thread like this I think. Let's try not to devolve this into jWill and Russell Wilson and keep it constructive.

An elite quarterback is elite. You can give him anybody and he'll still be good. Guys like Manning, Rodgers, Luck etc. A game manager should be everyone else in the league. Jay Cutler should be a game manager. Matthew Stafford should be a game manager. Russel Wilson of think should be a game manager. I think in all those examples as long as those quarterbacks don't make mistakes their team can be successful and shouldn't have to have their teams in their backs due to lack of experience or skill.

This is not a test.

[wwharton]

Quote: Originally Posted by oneamongthefence

An elite quarterback is elite. You can give him anybody and he'll still be good. Guys like Manning, Rodgers, Luck etc. A game manager should be everyone else in the league. Jay Cutler should be a game manager. Matthew Stafford should be a game manager. Russel Wilson of think should be a game manager. I think in all those examples as long as those quarterbacks don't make mistakes their team can be successful and shouldn't have to have their teams in their backs due to lack of experience or skill. This is not a test.

EVERY QB should be a game manager. Peyton, Brady and Luck are some of the best "game managers" in the league. The problem is "game manager" should not be used as the opposite of "elite".