Did the Colts Mishandle Having Manning as their QB?

[Jeffx]

Quote: Originally Posted by Scott

Imagine if Luck had the offensive line Dallas has...

That's what I'm talking about. They have to draft foundation pieces like Zack Martin, instead of trading picks for Trent Richardson. Colts front office is clueless. In football, you build from the inside out.

[CM Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by ImTellinTim

25+ years, 3 SB appearances. Sorry, when you have the most difficult part of the puzzle figured out during that entire time, I'm going to call that a disappointment.

Better that than no Super Bowl appearances or worse not even making the playoffs. What's the expectation baseline for team success? How many teams with established quarterbacks didn't win the Super Bowl? Certainly more than those that did. If the Green Bay Packers are a disappointing franchise, they're victims of their own sky-high expectations they've set for themselves based on consistent and continued success, something very few teams in the league enjoy.

As a Cowboys fan I sure would have liked my team to make the Super Bowl more than zero times with since September 1996 (a few of those years with four eventual Hall of Fame players on the offense no less) and going from then to January 2010 without even a playoff win. If the Cowboys get to the Packers' level I'd be elated.

[Jr.]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

Better that than no Super Bowl appearances or worse not even making the playoffs. What's the expectation baseline for team success? How many teams with established quarterbacks didn't win the Super Bowl? Certainly more than those that did. If the Green Bay Packers are a disappointing franchise, they're victims of their own sky-high expectations they've set for themselves based on consistent and continued success, something very few teams in the league enjoy. As a Cowboys fan I sure would have liked my team to make the Super Bowl more than zero times with since September 1996 (a few of those years with four eventual Hall of Fame players on the offense no less) and going from then to January 2010 without even a playoff win. If the Cowboys get to the Packers' level I'd be elated.

That's all relative. If the Cowboys get to that point, the expectation changes. It's not just making the playoffs at that point, it's winning a Championship. The "norm" is raised.

[CM Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jr.

That's all relative. If the Cowboys get to that point, the expectation changes. It's not just making the playoffs at that point, it's winning a Championship. The "norm" is raised.

Winning a championship is by definition not normal because only one team out of 32 per year can do it, so few franchises have done it even once (much less multiple times), and so many teams have never done it. To that end I don't see how Super Bowl can ever reasonably be the "norm" and setting it as the expectation, the given, is a disservice to the effort it takes to get even within striking distance of one.

Further, as a fan, investing interest and time into something with a 3% chance of me ending happy (by this set of conditions where the only definition of success is a championship) is not something in which I'm interested in partaking. Given how few games teams get to play and how much variance the NFL is subject to on that accord, the championship-or-bust mentality is immediately setting oneself up for disappointment.

[Chip Douglass]

Quote: Originally Posted by areobee401

A loss is a loss. Anyway you try to cut it, Green Bay failed to get the job done. There was still 59 other minutes played before the finale minute. A lot of room there for woulda, coulda, shoulda happened to prevented them from ever being in that situation.

Sure, there was an entire context that set up the one game-winning play. If Mike McCarthy had the testicular fortitude last year to go for it on 4th and 1 at Seattle's 1 instead of TWICE settling for extra-point FGs, last year's NFC title game might have ended differently. What you said just came across to me as "Hey, maybe Green Bay shouldn't have played such a close game with the Steve Young/Jerry Rice 49ers, or the 13-3 Eagles, or the 12-4 defending champion Seahawks."

The point is that if those end-of-game situations were a touch different, the Packers might have been able to squeeze out another Super Bowl over the last 2 decades. Unless people want to use that as proof that Green Bay is an inherently bad team in late-game playoff situations, which would strike me as bizarre. I don't think it's that much of a stretch to think that in a game between two elite teams, as most playoff games are, the fluke play can often be the difference.

[dsallupinyaarea]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

Winning a championship is by definition not normal because only one team out of 32 per year can do it, so few franchises have done it even once (much less multiple times), and so many teams have never done it. To that end I don't see how Super Bowl can ever reasonably be the "norm" and setting it as the expectation, the given, is a disservice to the effort it takes to get even within striking distance of one. Further, as a fan, investing interest and time into something with a 3% chance of me ending happy (by this set of conditions where the only definition of success is a championship) is not something in which I'm interested in partaking. Given how few games teams get to play and how much variance the NFL is subject to on that accord, the championship-or-bust mentality is immediately setting oneself up for disappointment.

Certainly one way to look at it. I just.... I ain't with this. This is like a pro sports participation trophy. Agree to disagree.

[Jr.]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

Winning a championship is by definition not normal because only one team out of 32 per year can do it, so few franchises have done it even once (much less multiple times), and so many teams have never done it. To that end I don't see how Super Bowl can ever reasonably be the "norm" and setting it as the expectation, the given, is a disservice to the effort it takes to get even within striking distance of one. Further, as a fan, investing interest and time into something with a 3% chance of me ending happy (by this set of conditions where the only definition of success is a championship) is not something in which I'm interested in partaking. Given how few games teams get to play and how much variance the NFL is subject to on that accord, the championship-or-bust mentality is immediately setting oneself up for disappointment.

Winning a Super Bowl every season is unrealistic, but fans are unrealistic by nature. I'm talking purely about the psychological concept that we re-evaluate and adjust our norms based on our current circumstances.

I wasn't saying that the norm becomes winning a Super Bowl.. it becomes making the playoffs. So therefore, a playoff appearance is no longer satisfying, because that's expected.

Speaking personally.. this season has been amazing as a Panthers fan. If they lose this Super Bowl, I'll be disappointed, but still happy with how the season went. Now, if they make the playoffs each of the next 5 seasons and still can't win a Super Bowl, the seasons will make me less happy (I'm assuming) than this season.

[TheShizNo1]

QBs are judged on wins; especially winning it all.
People continue to tell me that QB is the most important piece of the puzzle.
People now put a limit on the expectations when you have said most important piece?