2016 NFL Draft

[bkrich83]

Quote: Originally Posted by rkwittem

Gabbert is 6-5, 235. That's marginally different. By the time Rosen will be draft-eligible, he will be considered a premier talent at the position. I think he's going to be a fabulous player for the next 2 years at UCLA. The only proving points people have for Wentz is his size and playing system in college. Every guy in this class can throw. Drafting Wentz for Dallas would be an utter mistake. I would probably ask to be traded if I was Jason Witten and they do that.

Says the guy who watched him play in a bunch of games he didn't play in. There are zero similiarities to their games.

[bkrich83]

Quote: Originally Posted by fugazi

Isn't that what cleveland does?

Cleveland is where QB careers go to die. It's a worst case scenario for him. He does need to sit for a year or two and develop. Ceiling is unlimited though.

[rkwittem]

Quote: Originally Posted by bkrich83

Says the guy who watched him play in a bunch of games he didn't play in. There are zero similiarities to their games.

Other than being tall, brittle white dudes, sure. I guess. I mean, Gabbert was another of Mayock's favorites...inexplicably. And neither one has an elite skill or talent.

Quote: Originally Posted by bkrich83

Cleveland is where QB careers go to die. It's a worst case scenario for him. He does need to sit for a year or two and develop. Ceiling is unlimited though.

Unlimited, huh

I can't see that at all. He's not John Elway. He will be lucky to be half of what Brock Osweiler is.

[bkrich83]

Quote: Originally Posted by rkwittem

Other than being tall, brittle white dudes, sure. I guess. I mean, Gabbert was another of Mayock's favorites...inexplicably. And neither one has an elite skill or talent. Unlimited, huh I can't see that at all. He's not John Elway. He will be lucky to be half of what Brock Osweiler is.

Yeah, you watched him a lot. I'm out.

[CM Hooe]

Forgive me for asking about players who arent draft-eligible, but - why would Dallas skip drafting a quarterback this year to wait for a quarterback who isn't draft-eligible for two more years who may or may not develop into an NFL-caliber player?

Rosen had a fine season opener against UVA (the one game of his I watched) and generally appears he had reasonably competent season as a true freshman starting quarterback based on just statistics, but to call him a sure thing at this point is foolish. About seven or eight years ago, a guy named Riley Skinner was a fine four-year starter at QB for Wake Forest - so good that he helped freaking Wake Forest win the ACC - and he didn't get as much as a cup of coffee in the NFL.

Back on-topic, having watched a bit of Carson Wentz now at BK's suggestion - I don't see the Blaine Gabbert comparison either.

[rkwittem]

Quote: Originally Posted by bkrich83

Yeah, you watched him a lot. I'm out.

Yeah, and you have a biased favorable opinion of him, so it's all fair. Just take your ball and go home.

[rkwittem]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

Forgive me for asking about players who arent draft-eligible, but - why would Dallas skip drafting a quarterback this year to wait for a quarterback who isn't draft-eligible for two more years who may or may not develop into an NFL-caliber player?

Rosen is guaranteed to develop into a NFL-caliber QB. He will be the Top QB available when he comes out. All the big QB gurus out there love him and Jim Mora will have him NFL-ready by this fall. The Aikman comparison is already being thrown around in Westwood and for good reason. Even Aikman is on-board with the comparison from what I understand.

Simply put, the window is still open for the Cowboys and I'm not throwing away the ends of 9 and 82's careers for some probable bust when there are real studs available.

Quote:

Rosen had a fine season opener against UVA (the one game of his I watched) and generally appears he had reasonably competent season as a true freshman starting quarterback based on just statistics, but to call him a sure thing at this point is foolish. About seven or eight years ago, a guy named Riley Skinner was a fine four-year starter at QB for Wake Forest - so good that he helped freaking Wake Forest win the ACC - and he didn't get as much as a cup of coffee in the NFL.

Yeah but Riley Skinner wasn't the highest-touted QB in the history of HS football in California, recruiting wise either. Their backgrounds and talent levels are totally different.

Quote:

Back on-topic, having watched a bit of Carson Wentz now at BK's suggestion - I don't see the Blaine Gabbert comparison either.

From the 2011 NFL Draft tape I have:

when Gabbert was drafted, they praised his size and athletic ability, and strong, quick, accurate arm.

They hated on his system (spread has since been shown that it can produce decent pros so this comparison doesn't hold much water anymore), progression ability, and ability to throw in tight windows.

Sounds an awful lot like Wentz to me minus the whole spread vs. pro style college offense.

Or if you'd prefer another QB from that class who was also praised for a strong arm, athletic ability and playing in a pro-style scheme, what about Jake Locker? He checks all the boxed Wentz did and busted in the league too.

[CM Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by rkwittem

Rosen is guaranteed to develop into a NFL-caliber QB. He will be the Top QB available when he comes out. All the big QB gurus out there love him and Jim Mora will have him NFL-ready by this fall. The Aikman comparison is already being thrown around in Westwood and for good reason. Even Aikman is on-board with the comparison from what I understand.

If I take your word for it on Rosen that he's indubitably can't-miss for-sure best QB in the 2018 draft class - which is an optimistic projection for any player who is merely nineteen years old - the Cowboys will almost certainly have to have Round 1 Pick 1 to get him. It's not exactly in Jerry Jones' DNA to deliberately tank, and as long as Tony Romo can get on the field the Cowboys are all but guaranteed eight wins, maybe more if things break right for the team, maybe less. They definitely aren't guaranteed to be in such a dire position to get Rosen, so hinging the future of the franchise on Rosen right now is foolish.

More importantly, Dallas has the #4 pick this year, not two years from now. If their brain trust - which has more experience evaluating football players than the entirety of this forum's population - feels that one of the quarterbacks in this class can be the guy after Tony Romo steps aside - be it Wentz, Jonathan Goff, Paxton Lynch, or anyone else - there's no reason to wait.

Quote:

when Gabbert was drafted, they praised his size and athletic ability, and strong, quick, accurate arm. They hated on his system (spread has since been shown that it can produce decent pros so this comparison doesn't hold much water anymore), progression ability, and ability to throw in tight windows. Sounds an awful lot like Wentz to me minus the whole spread vs. pro style college offense. Or if you'd prefer another QB from that class who was also praised for a strong arm, athletic ability and playing in a pro-style scheme, what about Jake Locker? He checks all the boxed Wentz did and busted in the league too.

I've watched Wentz for all of fifteen minutes and I already see more functional on-field intelligence than I ever saw from Jake Locker in any game Locker ever played. If you don't want to take my word for it , The literature on the NFL combine's official website authored by Lance Zierlein reads his strengths as follows:

Quote:

Tall with an athletic, proportional build that is made for the NFL position. Played in a pro-style attack with plenty of snaps under center. Asked to make NFL throws and showed he could do it. Stands tall in the pocket and delivers with a relatively high release point. Keeps ball high and tight in the pocket and can uncork it quickly with tight, sharp release and little wasted motion. Throws catchable ball with tight spiral. Naturally accurate passer. Sees lurking linebackers underneath and throws receivers open to safest spot in the passing window. Able to change arm slots and still throw a strike. Has plus deep ball accuracy and touch. Calm in pocket and has no problems sitting in and taking a hit to complete a pass. Excelled in structured passing attack that required him to read the entire field. Has athleticism to escape pressure and hurt defenses with his legs. Already able to feel pressure on the edges and slide around in pocket without dropping his eyes. Adept in play-action game at selling fakes and quickly finding safeties to help determine where to go with the ball. Intelligent with long list of academic achievements. Should be able to process and handle an NFL playbook quickly. Can play pitch and catch all day long against zone coverage.

Between that and the very little bit of him that I've actually watched where his play is already immediately jumping off the page in a good way, I readily and immediately concede that my first impression I had of Wentz which I posted near the top of the thread was indeed dead wrong.

I no longer think we're discussing the same player.