Nah P2K, I am not saying that at all. The fans I reference in my post are mostly guys I come across in forums, not the casual gamer out there. I don't expect them to know any better. But some of the things I read here, just baffle me because we here are more informed than the avg consumer (at least most of us seem to be). I just think a lot of hard core gamers let ea off the hook for a lot of laziness exhibited in the creation of their sports products. If you like ea you like it, I don't care about that, but ea infringed upon a lot of people that didn't like their version of football, and those people arent ready to accept what they perceive to be a deficient game that they are somewhat forced to buy (forced if you want play nfl football). Some people call it 2k fanboyism, I call it sound consumer decision making when spending ones money for a game.