All-Pro Improvements

[spankdatazz22]

Re: All-Pro Improvements

Just give it a graphic boost, a major one! Casual gamers notice Huge Detailed graphics, before anything else.

I worked in Marketing for years, and I'm telling you what our studies proved!

Give it a major graphic, overhaul with a lot of customization options, with the already stellar gameplay. And this game will sell...Enough said!

Why does it need a "major" graphic overhaul? Find me a Madden or NCAA video that looks better than this:

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And that's just picking something random. When the game is played with teams that look more familar, the graphics look much better. If APF had NFL uniforms, this wouldn't even be a discussion point because people would accept it's look. APF doesn't look bad, although I think the base uniforms 2K went with were a horrible choice. While I wouldn't mind a new graphical engine, there's no way it's a need at this point. I've read your criticisms of NBA2K because you feel the graphical engine needs to be overhauled seemingly simply for the sake of wanting something completely new. Nor does that game look bad. I don't disagree that I'd like to have a new graphical engine, but it would be far down my list of wants. I don't see how it's a necessity.

[kcxiv]

Re: All-Pro Improvements

I personally think the graphics look better then the other 2 games. The game just looks more fluid and has a soul. My only complaint with graphics is the grass. the APF grass looks like crap. Thats something very very minor to me, but hey, if its crap, its crap.


I have never seen a football game with such smooth animations as APF. I dont know why people knock it. There is a youtube video out that that compares 2k football and EA football. Go look at that and then say it needs an upgrade.

[Kanobi]

Re: All-Pro Improvements

With APF being based on a fictional league, VC really has limitless possibilities in terms of what they could do with a franchise mode. I sent in some stuff to them last July that I don't think has been done before. If they're ever implemented then I think most APF fans would be happy. We shall see.

[Sausage]

Re: All-Pro Improvements

With APF being based on a fictional league, VC really has limitless possibilities in terms of what they could do with a franchise mode. I sent in some stuff to them last July that I don't think has been done before. If they're ever implemented then I think most APF fans would be happy. We shall see.

What ideas did you send them?

[granvilleberry]

Ten, maybe fifteen years ago there was a game for the SuperNintendo that was a little bit like Tecmo Bowl, though played with an overhead-diagonal view. The big thing for me, keeping in mind that I was still getting rides from mommy to school back then, was that you could play as high school, college, and pro teams. They were all generic, with names like Oklahoma for U. of Oklahoma and other state schools while a school like Brigham Young would be called Provo State or Utah Mormon College. The pro teams were all named via the city they were in. The uni's weren't spot on (no logos on the helmets as the technology/graphics just weren't there yet), but the colors where all correct and you could manipulate the high school unis. The ability to create/modify the uniforms is my big thing, and an in game logo creator/modifier would be fantastic combined with the already mentioned set-up of generic teams that loosely fit in with the real deal. The gameplay is already great (after playing nothing but NCAA since August and picking up APF this week, I'm sold...at least until I begin playing online where I will ultimately be exposed to the variety of cheap playing style and glitches), I just want a more robust avenue to throw together a 2004 OU squad or any particular NFL team from the '80s. It's frustrating when you're locked in to a set number of team names when you'd rather just type in the name you want and live w/out it being spoken by the play-by-play and color guys.

[jwilson3rd]

Re: All-Pro Improvements

all i want is 2k9 to be released.

[turftickler]

1. Complete customization.
2. Silver players need three stars, Bronze players need 2 stars.
3. Generic and created players should get better with everygame they play, but only if they are showing progress in their stats online and offline.
4. Graphics, graphics, graphics!!!!!!!!!!!!!
5. Better pre-game and post game presentation.
6. Actual gameplay videos during halftime show online and offline.
7. Side camera and custom camera,
8. More stadiums.
9. Announcer need to say full names of created players. I know this can be done, because I am a computer software developer myself.
10. People that cheat should be penalized. If they pull their connection, they should receive an automic negative rating and a loss.

[metallicatz]

Re: All-Pro Improvements

More Hall of Famers won't do jack to stimulate sales. If having Elway, Sanders, and Rice on the cover doesn't do it then it doesn't matter who you've got in the game. If 2K wants their football game to be relevent then they need to copy Winning Eleven's formula. If you need NFL players and teams to enjoy a football game......then you're not in it for the football. Period.

Get a deep franchise mode in there. Hard numbers prove that more people play offline than online. Many more. 2k f-ed up BIG TIME by leaving out a franchise mode. Maybe next time their staff will be be a bit more PR savvy and avoid saying stupid things like "just shut up and play the damn game" in magazine articles to quell criticism of the lack of features.

If there is a next 2K football game it needs a total makeover. After 5 minutes with APF08 I was playing like a seasoned vet. Why? Because i'd already logged hundreds of games on it........several years before when the game was called NFL2K5. Ditch the ported 4+ year old engine and come to the table with a next gen engine like the rest of the 2K sports titles.

And some of you need to just stop with that nonsense about APF's visuals being the best out there. They're not. They're good, but face reality......they don't compare to Madden in that department anymore. If that "Bears" clip posted earlier is the best you've seen, it just proves you haven't taken a look around at the competition.

[spankdatazz22]

Re: All-Pro Improvements

Get a deep franchise mode in there. Hard numbers prove that more people play offline than online. Many more. 2k f-ed up BIG TIME by leaving out a franchise mode. Maybe next time their staff will be be a bit more PR savvy and avoid saying stupid things like "just shut up and play the damn game" in magazine articles to quell criticism of the lack of features.

Why try to twist the quote out of context - yet again? They said they were attempting to make the best playing football game to date and that's what they did. The game's biggest problem is something they can do nothing about - it lacks the NFL licenses. I think the game would've been much more successful with the NFL licenses and no franchise than without the license and a deep franchise. Ultimately franchise isn't important if the core game isn't appealing enough to play in the first place.

If there is a next 2K football game it needs a total makeover. After 5 minutes with APF08 I was playing like a seasoned vet. Why? Because i'd already logged hundreds of games on it........several years before when the game was called NFL2K5. Ditch the ported 4+ year old engine and come to the table with a next gen engine like the rest of the 2K sports titles.

Funny... many people say the NBA2K engine is ported. Yet it's far and away the best basketball game to date - no other game is even close. Change for change's sake makes no sense.

And some of you need to just stop with that nonsense about APF's visuals being the best out there. They're not. They're good, but face reality......they don't compare to Madden in that department anymore. If that "Bears" clip posted earlier is the best you've seen, it just proves you haven't taken a look around at the competition.

Let's see your gameplay clip then. It's not a matter of the graphics having to be the best - too often people are worried about how light is reflecting off a helmet instead of how the game plays. So, as Madden supposedly looks, there's an awful lot of people dissatisfied with it. It's been discussed at length that many people would've preferred updated last gen visuals and ported gameplay than having to deal with the horrid-bad-mediocre Madden 06/07/08 respectively.

[goodsense]

Make Generic players scoutable.
Make teams better the more you play with them. So if you go in and revamp your entire OL then that OL should struggle for a while. etc...

Complete Customization sounds nice folks, but it is a lot of work if you want to implement a lot of the other things you want to work along with it. Do you limit the names? You'll run into problems with correct name annoucement on some.

Better all around game presentation. Use more PIP to allow players quicker access to playcall screen.

Move Pause Screen Options to Game Screen PLEASE!!!!
If you want to toss the red flag you should be able to do so without the pause menu. If it happens at the snap then whistle and call the play dead.

Move Focus from gameplan pause menu to playcall screen, LOS options so players can maintain flexibility without pausing the game.

Make No-huddle a DUAL button, so that manual catchers don't find themselves mistakenly calling up a no-huddle play. The same with spike the ball. Add in the left or right trigger along with the Y/X (xb360)

MORE LOS OPTIONS!!!
DEF: swap m2m assignments, DL shifts, Better show blitz including for DBs, seperate db in/out coverage, Sideline Pass Coverage, better trailing of motioned players, no instant change of direction, no jumping routes with back turned in coverage: curl/hook routes, force more fumbles depending on hit: blind side, stripping the ball with reach tackles from QB instead it only happening on tackles, give defense the chance to ignore cadence. (penalty is slightly, not too obvious, slower jump on the actual hike), DL QB contain used for mobile QBs where they don't blitz the QB but contain him and or screens, etc..

OFF: Add QB motion in/out of shotgun on any play. Better reverse paths, not all WRs can make sideline catches/one handed catches/etc..., CHILL with super human players, slow down players taking hits and breaking tackles, smarter downfield blocking for human controlled teams, tuck for QB since we want more QB fumbles which there should be for blind hits. Add a Play Route Reset so if you audible and motion out you can reset the routes without reseting the formation, be able to motion WR for reverse plays

Full gameplay replays. From the moment QB goes under center so we can see the shifts that took place. This is not the case for presentation replays mind you.

Better game presentation. Half-time and End of Game replays should include scoring plays. Last minute drives show some key plays as well - 3rd & 14 turned into a 1st, etc... The same with last minute drive stops. Show that goal line stance

Smarter announcer object model please.
Too many out of wack commentary. Some comments should be only heard once. ex... Call the game over when it is over and stop that generic "until double zero"

Bring back fan shots like leaving the stadium to emphasize blowouts.
More comeback commentary.

Better injury coverage:
Pull info up from playcall screen. Player should exhibit the injury. Stop just having the guy lay flat on his back. Have it where some players return to the game isn't successful and need to leave again.

Kickoff option of 1 or 2 returners. This will eliminate the idea of people cheating on kickoffs.
Now you have a way to stop it.

Better field degrading in bad weather. Wear out where the game is played.
Vary conditions. Not always heavy rain or heavy snow. Some games it stops or comes down lighter.

Playbook manager:
I could careless about statistical plays I have installed.
We have FLIP so again, there is NO NEED to have Weak ISO and Strong ISO when we can flip it.
When we select plays like this we should be able to assign our preferred default of strong or weak.
The same with screens, toss, stretch, counters, traps, etc...
Exception! Reverse plays have no such option.

Include SET plays with QB Spy, more double teams, etc...


ADD
Full Play Editor. Including options for trick plays like reverse, fake reverse, double reverse, fake double reverse, all types of runs and pass routes, various direct snaps, screens(RB/TE/WR/QB)

Full Practice Mode. 7on7, various position drills, 2 minute drill, and stop flipping cpu player assignments like making LT RT, etc...

Franchise... I'll leave it at that except make scouting more dynamic. Send us through that invitation where we get to put players through drills that we can SEE the results. Just limit how many.




CORRECTIONS
QB needs to end up in the correct stance when rolling out.
There is still a back door to get to the flipped reverse play, so if a reverse play is in flip form then it should result in a broken play.
Please! Please! Please! Fix the BACKFIELD routes!!!!! That little curl is being used for 2 routes and we need that cleared up. One minute it goes out to the sidelines the next just beyond the tackle.
Menu system for calling packages!
Display the offense package based on players IN on the play rather than just the assumed package contents.
You run Split Pro with a WR in for the TE then the display should show Split Spread.


Better testing of your product and quicker turn arounds with OBVIOUS glitches.

The graphics are fine. I'm more interested in gameplay rather than upgraded graphics. You guys need to stop complaining about gameplay if you keep emphasizing graphics all the time.

Finally!
ME! Why not have this vision as apart of your team even on a limited or part-time basis.

[metallicatz]

Re: All-Pro Improvements

Why try to twist the quote out of context - yet again? They said they were attempting to make the best playing football game to date and that's what they did. The game's biggest problem is something they can do nothing about - it lacks the NFL licenses. I think the game would've been much more successful with the NFL licenses and no franchise than without the license and a deep franchise. Ultimately franchise isn't important if the core game isn't appealing enough to play in the first place.

The game has bigger problems than the lack of an NFL license. That quote was presented exactly as it came across. And whether or not you think they created "the best playing football game to date" is purely a matter of opinion. Apparently, millions of people seem to disagree with you.

Funny... many people say the NBA2K engine is ported. Yet it's far and away the best basketball game to date - no other game is even close. Change for change's sake makes no sense.

It's not "change for the sake of change". It's change for the sake of wanting something new, and not something I spent hundreds of hours of playing 3-4 years ago. Seems to me EA has taken alot of flak over the years for being a "roster update".....and yet 2K seems to get a pass for re-releasing a 4 year old game with many of the same animations, same exact commentary from Stevens and O'keefe (contrary to what page 3 of the instruction manual has to say about that), and less than half the features of 2K5. And they charged $60 to boot. I don't want to play ports of 4 year old games on my 360. If you do, then have at it but don't get upset if other people have expectations that are a bit higher.

Let's see your gameplay clip then. It's not a matter of the graphics having to be the best - too often people are worried about how light is reflecting off a helmet instead of how the game plays. So, as Madden supposedly looks, there's an awful lot of people dissatisfied with it. It's been discussed at length that many people would've preferred updated last gen visuals and ported gameplay than having to deal with the horrid-bad-mediocre Madden 06/07/08 respectively.

The clips are everywhere. Go to youtube, go to Gamespot, go to IGN. You'll find all you're looking for. It's not just helmet textures and reflections that are better in Madden (although they do look f-ing sweet, especially the metal flake paint jobs), the models and unis are far better as well IMO. And it seems to me much of the criticism has died down since the patch. The game plays just fine. There's a good reason why you can walk into any Gamestop or EB Games and find many more used copies of APF on the shelf than Madden. And it ain't the NFL license. If it was, those copies of APF wouldn't have been purchased in the first place.

2K sports deserves its criticism. On the last gen they were king. They always got the higher review scores. Now the trend has shifted. NHL 08 cleaned house over NHL 2K8. MLB2K8 just reviewed even lower than last year and MVP 05 is still widely considered to be the best baseball game ever made (exclusivity cuts both ways). Both Madden and NCAA 08 cleaned up on APF. The only 2K Sports game that has reviewed higher than the competition is NBA2K. And for Prizefighter? They brought in the studio that did the horrible Rocky games. 2K is not headed in the right direction these days.

[spankdatazz22]

Re: All-Pro Improvements

The game has bigger problems than the lack of an NFL license. That quote was presented exactly as it came across. And whether or not you think they created "the best playing football game to date" is purely a matter of opinion. Apparently, millions of people seem to disagree with you.

True, whether the game is best playing is opinion. But I'm willing to provide video and reasons why I feel APF is the best, if you're willing to do the same for [whatever you choose]. Hell, I'll use the video already out there. If the game has bigger problems than lacking the NFL license, I'd love to hear them. The number one request around here is full customization - not so they can create a Canadian league/European league/or whatever other off the wall league you want to name. They want NFL/NCAA players and teams. I'd be willing to bet if people had the choice between APF having the NFL/NFLPA licenses versus a franchise mode, the licenses would win in a landslide.

I assume you're also willing to say Madden sells because of it's high quality and value.

It's change for the sake of wanting something new, and not something I spent hundreds of hours of playing 3-4 years ago. Seems to me EA has taken alot of flak over the years for being a "roster update".....and yet 2K seems to get a pass for re-releasing a 4 year old game with many of the same animations, same exact commentary from Stevens and O'keefe (contrary to what page 3 of the instruction manual has to say about that), and less than half the features of 2K5. And they charged $60 to boot. I don't want to play ports of 4 year old games on my 360. If you do, then have at it but don't get upset if other people have expectations that are a bit higher.

APF has immensely better QB play. Ridiculously better WR play. Better DB play. Better running anims, and better transitional animations. Better directional control. Better ball physics. Far more than a roster update. No, it's not a complete 180 from what 2K5 was - but obviously, it didn't have to be. Especially considering it's a game that shouldn't exist in the first place. Yes, they charged $60. As does pretty much every other next gen developer of games. MLB2K6, Madden '06, NBA Live '07 - I could go on - all next gen games considered pretty bad, that sold for msrp of $60. The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles game on the 360 sold for $60. But you have a problem with APF selling for $60... Okay.

The clips are everywhere. Go to youtube, go to Gamespot, go to IGN. You'll find all you're looking for. It's not just helmet textures and reflections that are better in Madden (although they do look f-ing sweet, especially the metal flake paint jobs), the models and unis are far better as well IMO. And it seems to me much of the criticism has died down since the patch. The game plays just fine. There's a good reason why you can walk into any Gamestop or EB Games and find many more used copies of APF on the shelf than Madden. And it ain't the NFL license. If it was, those copies of APF wouldn't have been purchased in the first place.

Like I said earlier - I'd love to see you attempt to prove that Madden's a better playing game. It should be pretty easy, since APF is nothing more than "what you played 3-4yrs ago". I'd love to see you break down different aspects of the game - just be forewarned, I'm not sure that the patch completely cleared up the turnover issue. And I'm not sure if the patch completely did away with ball warping, and defenders jumping 10ft to knock down passes. But hey, at least "the helmets look f-ing sweet" lol. What a joke this is turning out to be.

2K sports deserves its criticism. On the last gen they were king. They always got the higher review scores. Now the trend has shifted. NHL 08 cleaned house over NHL 2K8. MLB2K8 just reviewed even lower than last year and MVP 05 is still widely considered to be the best baseball game ever made (exclusivity cuts both ways). Both Madden and NCAA 08 cleaned up on APF. The only 2K Sports game that has reviewed higher than the competition is NBA2K. And for Prizefighter? They brought in the studio that did the horrible Rocky games. 2K is not headed in the right direction these days.

You're being pretty transparent in your hatred of 2K; even threw some future speculation in there with critiquing Prizefighter. Nice that you dropped the NBA2K series to make your point more effectively lol. For all this "they were king last gen" all I heard was how badly 2K games were getting trounced in sales consistently. Even when they priced their titles at $19.99, and EA lowered the prices on their games accordingly to $29.99, people clowned 2K for having to do it in the first place. So I don't get all this "they were king last gen" talk.

Either way, since the Take Two buyout seems inevitable, 2K will "get what they deserve". Actually it'll be the fans getting what they deserve - a [currently] sorry azz football game that has every advantage in the world, yet you can't even defend. Unless we're comparing the sheen and reflective capabilities of helmets. If Madden/NCAA are so great, why aren't you over in those forums commenting on how enjoyable they are? I don't understand this need to bash 2K endlessly by some. But no worries - once we have EA developing all the sports games, I'm sure it won't be long until we're up to our ears in quality sports game releases. Given the overall tone and differing expectations people have for the 2K titles, I can't wait

[murry]

Re: All-Pro Improvements

True, whether the game is best playing is opinion. But I'm willing to provide video and reasons why I feel APF is the best, if you're willing to do the same for [whatever you choose]. Hell, I'll use the video already out there. If the game has bigger problems than lacking the NFL license, I'd love to hear them. The number one request around here is full customization - not so they can create a Canadian league/European league/or whatever other off the wall league you want to name. They want NFL/NCAA players and teams. I'd be willing to bet if people had the choice between APF having the NFL/NFLPA licenses versus a franchise mode, the licenses would win in a landslide.

I assume you're also willing to say Madden sells because of it's high quality and value.



APF has immensely better QB play. Ridiculously better WR play. Better DB play. Better running anims, and better transitional animations. Better directional control. Better ball physics. Far more than a roster update. No, it's not a complete 180 from what 2K5 was - but obviously, it didn't have to be. Especially considering it's a game that shouldn't exist in the first place. Yes, they charged $60. As does pretty much every other next gen developer of games. MLB2K6, Madden '06, NBA Live '07 - I could go on - all next gen games considered pretty bad, that sold for msrp of $60. The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles game on the 360 sold for $60. But you have a problem with APF selling for $60... Okay.



Like I said earlier - I'd love to see you attempt to prove that Madden's a better playing game. It should be pretty easy, since APF is nothing more than "what you played 3-4yrs ago". I'd love to see you break down different aspects of the game - just be forewarned, I'm not sure that the patch completely cleared up the turnover issue. And I'm not sure if the patch completely did away with ball warping, and defenders jumping 10ft to knock down passes. But hey, at least "the helmets look f-ing sweet" lol. What a joke this is turning out to be.



You're being pretty transparent in your hatred of 2K; even threw some future speculation in there with critiquing Prizefighter. Nice that you dropped the NBA2K series to make your point more effectively lol. For all this "they were king last gen" all I heard was how badly 2K games were getting trounced in sales consistently. Even when they priced their titles at $19.99, and EA lowered the prices on their games accordingly to $29.99, people clowned 2K for having to do it in the first place. So I don't get all this "they were king last gen" talk.

Either way, since the Take Two buyout seems inevitable, 2K will "get what they deserve". Actually it'll be the fans getting what they deserve - a [currently] sorry azz football game that has every advantage in the world, yet you can't even defend. Unless we're comparing the sheen and reflective capabilities of helmets. If Madden/NCAA are so great, why aren't you over in those forums commenting on how enjoyable they are? I don't understand this need to bash 2K endlessly by some. But no worries - once we have EA developing all the sports games, I'm sure it won't be long until we're up to our ears in quality sports game releases. Given the overall tone and differing expectations people have for the 2K titles, I can't wait

[jsou4646]

Re: All-Pro Improvements

I'm in the same boat I just hope it is released