Major League Baseball 2K8 Review

[Zackdawg]

Re: Major League Baseball 2K8 Review

I think the distinction between gameplay, graphics and presentation is often an artificial one. I'm a franchise gamer -- I play for immersion in the experience. When the game crashes, it takes me out of the experience of running a franchise. When the game fails to conform to real baseball, as in the case of AI-controlled teams never stealing, it takes me out of the experience. When the tv-style presentation stutters so badly that it is a pain to watch, it takes me out of the experience. Frame-rate stutters do the same thing as does the mismatched or just plain inaccurate play-by-play. While I agree that what is classicly defined as "gameplay" is not nearly as buggy as the rest of the product, the result is the same -- I become aware that I'm playing a bad piece of software and lose immersion in the game.

[fistofrage]

Re: Major League Baseball 2K8 Review

Why is all of 2k's commentary horrible. In NCAA College hoops, you could be up by 2 and they'll say you are up by 19. Now I'm hearing this? I don't know programming, but I would imagine that lining up the commentary with things like the score and where the ball is hit should be relatively easy.

I think we are finally seeing harsh criticism against 2k sports because in years past, they were "the people's champion" the freedom fighters the one's that went against all odds to fight the evil tyrant EA Sports. They were our voice and they listened to us. They were Robin Hood, fighting for the good of sports sims gamers. That was until this year. Now instead of robbing from the rich and giving to the poor, they're robbing from us, producing subpar games and going bankrupt in the process.

[ehh]

Re: Major League Baseball 2K8 Review

On the field I think the game is an 8 out of 10, everything else is about a 4 out of 10. Personally I weigh the former much more than the latter, but trying to speak for everyone in general I'd say 6/10 is pretty accurate. However, the notion that this game took one step forward and two back is completely BS to me. This game took a huge step forward this year.

[backbreaker]

Why do people say "if 2k had more time" they would have done this to improve the game. That isn't a valid argument, because they did have time the usual Feb. to Feb time, this is not foreign to them. I don't buy the time argument at all. If you were to say something about prioritization, and how they design a game then I would listen.

One company had Feb. to Feb. to develop its game and another had May to Feb to develop its game, its all about design and priorities. Start with a great pre-production analyze your plan and tune the "F" out of it.

Poor Planning vs. Proper Planning, again 2k is not new to this process.

[roadman]

Re: Major League Baseball 2K8 Review

On the field I think the game is an 8 out of 10, everything else is about a 4 out of 10. Personally I weigh the former much more than the latter, but trying to speak for everyone in general I'd say 6/10 is pretty accurate. However, the notion that this game took one step forward and two back is completely BS to me. This game took a huge step forward this year.

That's pretty much how I feel.

[Kramer5150]

Re: Major League Baseball 2K8 Review

On the field I think the game is an 8 out of 10, everything else is about a 4 out of 10. Personally I weigh the former much more than the latter, but trying to speak for everyone in general I'd say 6/10 is pretty accurate. However, the notion that this game took one step forward and two back is completely BS to me. This game took a huge step forward this year.

I agree with this as well.

[Brophog]

Re: Major League Baseball 2K8 Review

Slizeezyc, Blygilmore, OS Staff,

Thanks for the discourse on the review. Glad to be a part of it. This thread has been a very good one, not solely on the review of this title, but on the process of reviewing and games in general. Thanks for that.

The big idea that I see here though that a retail product should come out in a state unlike this one......particularly on the framerate issues, is a bit of a tricky one. I agree that a product has to be playable and that an issue like this one should have received more pre-release focus. I don't know if we can continue to take a very hard line approach to this though and keep our senses as console gaming goes forward.

But the other side of it is that this is the reality in 21st century gaming. We're walking a fine line of performance here, unlike I think any time in console gaming history. On the end-user side, we know what we want, and have come to expect that bar to get continually raised, but we don't necessarily know what goes into that. On the other end, there is an entire gamut of people needed to put these things together now, with a lot of conditions dictating when a product can be released, and sometimes in what condition that product is to be released. We on this end need to remember that things are not simple anymore. There is always a PR/marketing side to the decision to push a game back or release and patch. The respective license holders may have a say in it. There are a lot of factors that can dictate the why and how of a gaming release. It may not be so cut and dry as we make it out to be.

The reality side of it is, we're going to see more and more games on the consoles with these kinds of problems requiring patches. In the PC arena, we've become almost completely accustomed to it. We know the game will have several revisions over its lifetime, and the better developers aren't the ones that release the best retail versions, but the ones that address the problems the quickest. I don't know the last PC game I bought that I did not immediately go look for the patches for. We're seeing this on the console end now as well. It seems every day a patch for a new PS3 or XBOX 360 game is coming out. Some to fix major issues like this one. Some for more minor ones.

This conversation isn't excusing the framerate issue, which is why I talked about having 2 reviews. I think it is more than fair to address the framerate in this review, as it is a huge issue. But I also fully expect to see it patched, and therefore what we know the game to be will be different. The reason I bring all of this up like this is that part of the issue, imo, and I'm seeing it all over the web with an entire host of console games, is that we as console gamers are in a bit of a shock right now. We are simply not accustomed to patches. We think of things as being "retail versions" and that's how the game is for eternity. That's a hard mindset to change, but, imo, a necessary one beginning with this generation.

[RoyceBrown]

Re: Major League Baseball 2K8 Review

Great review, one of the best I've seen thus far.

I agree with a good portion of the review.

[capp34]

Nice review I would have gave it a 5 because its only half of a game. I agree with all the facts you stated tho

[russ99]

I'd agree with the 6 as shipped.

With a few slider adjustments, I'd go as far as a 7.

If they get around to fixing the framerate in a patch, it could be worth an 8, as it's really fun to play.

[ChaseB]

Re: Major League Baseball 2K8 Review

Slizeezyc, Blygilmore, OS Staff,

Thanks for the discourse on the review. Glad to be a part of it. This thread has been a very good one, not solely on the review of this title, but on the process of reviewing and games in general. Thanks for that.

The big idea that I see here though that a retail product should come out in a state unlike this one......particularly on the framerate issues, is a bit of a tricky one. I agree that a product has to be playable and that an issue like this one should have received more pre-release focus. I don't know if we can continue to take a very hard line approach to this though and keep our senses as console gaming goes forward.

But the other side of it is that this is the reality in 21st century gaming. We're walking a fine line of performance here, unlike I think any time in console gaming history. On the end-user side, we know what we want, and have come to expect that bar to get continually raised, but we don't necessarily know what goes into that. On the other end, there is an entire gamut of people needed to put these things together now, with a lot of conditions dictating when a product can be released, and sometimes in what condition that product is to be released. We on this end need to remember that things are not simple anymore. There is always a PR/marketing side to the decision to push a game back or release and patch. The respective license holders may have a say in it. There are a lot of factors that can dictate the why and how of a gaming release. It may not be so cut and dry as we make it out to be.

The reality side of it is, we're going to see more and more games on the consoles with these kinds of problems requiring patches. In the PC arena, we've become almost completely accustomed to it. We know the game will have several revisions over its lifetime, and the better developers aren't the ones that release the best retail versions, but the ones that address the problems the quickest. I don't know the last PC game I bought that I did not immediately go look for the patches for. We're seeing this on the console end now as well. It seems every day a patch for a new PS3 or XBOX 360 game is coming out. Some to fix major issues like this one. Some for more minor ones.

This conversation isn't excusing the framerate issue, which is why I talked about having 2 reviews. I think it is more than fair to address the framerate in this review, as it is a huge issue. But I also fully expect to see it patched, and therefore what we know the game to be will be different. The reason I bring all of this up like this is that part of the issue, imo, and I'm seeing it all over the web with an entire host of console games, is that we as console gamers are in a bit of a shock right now. We are simply not accustomed to patches. We think of things as being "retail versions" and that's how the game is for eternity. That's a hard mindset to change, but, imo, a necessary one beginning with this generation.

So the first thing I think of is sort of a chicken or the egg type deal. Was patching necessary because of technological/marketing/programming advances and pitfalls, or because the Internet is there and it's possible to fix a game after it ships? Have people accepted patching as just a part of gaming now and that's also a contributing factor? There's certainly room to argue each side of that argument.

The other thing I think about though is: In what other tech consumer world do people accept "broken" products? It's the same argument that's raged in the PC world for a while really. When a game ships on the PC and then it doesn't work or you need to DL a ton of patches or drivers, in what other tech market would that be accepted? I have trouble really thinking of one where people just accept buying a "broken" product.

Continuing on with that PC point. Consoles have thrived in large part due to standardized components and thus little to no need to upgrade. It's a flat fee and you know all the games will work the same and all developers can develop with the same tools. I would say that mindset means that patching post-release won't ever really be an acceptable excuse -- at least in the near future. PC gamers are in a constant state of change as it comes to hardware and PC devs have to develop for many different hardware combos, and all that mixed just leads to a more acceptable atmosphere for tweaking post-release. Even so you're starting to see some more standardization even in the PC market.

But returning back to the original point of the review. I think Dave/Bly certainly took into consideration how the actual game itself played (obvious to say I know but nonetheless), and while the frame rate was a detriment on the experience itself, if he didn't at least enjoy the core of the game he wouldn't have given it an above average score -- that's what I get from the review at least.

[Diesel3649]

Re: Major League Baseball 2K8 Review

Slizeezyc, Blygilmore, OS Staff,

Thanks for the discourse on the review. Glad to be a part of it. This thread has been a very good one, not solely on the review of this title, but on the process of reviewing and games in general. Thanks for that.

The big idea that I see here though that a retail product should come out in a state unlike this one......particularly on the framerate issues, is a bit of a tricky one. I agree that a product has to be playable and that an issue like this one should have received more pre-release focus. I don't know if we can continue to take a very hard line approach to this though and keep our senses as console gaming goes forward.

But the other side of it is that this is the reality in 21st century gaming. We're walking a fine line of performance here, unlike I think any time in console gaming history. On the end-user side, we know what we want, and have come to expect that bar to get continually raised, but we don't necessarily know what goes into that. On the other end, there is an entire gamut of people needed to put these things together now, with a lot of conditions dictating when a product can be released, and sometimes in what condition that product is to be released. We on this end need to remember that things are not simple anymore. There is always a PR/marketing side to the decision to push a game back or release and patch. The respective license holders may have a say in it. There are a lot of factors that can dictate the why and how of a gaming release. It may not be so cut and dry as we make it out to be.

The reality side of it is, we're going to see more and more games on the consoles with these kinds of problems requiring patches. In the PC arena, we've become almost completely accustomed to it. We know the game will have several revisions over its lifetime, and the better developers aren't the ones that release the best retail versions, but the ones that address the problems the quickest. I don't know the last PC game I bought that I did not immediately go look for the patches for. We're seeing this on the console end now as well. It seems every day a patch for a new PS3 or XBOX 360 game is coming out. Some to fix major issues like this one. Some for more minor ones.

This conversation isn't excusing the framerate issue, which is why I talked about having 2 reviews. I think it is more than fair to address the framerate in this review, as it is a huge issue. But I also fully expect to see it patched, and therefore what we know the game to be will be different. The reason I bring all of this up like this is that part of the issue, imo, and I'm seeing it all over the web with an entire host of console games, is that we as console gamers are in a bit of a shock right now. We are simply not accustomed to patches. We think of things as being "retail versions" and that's how the game is for eternity. That's a hard mindset to change, but, imo, a necessary one beginning with this generation.

I have to respectfully disagree with your view that it's our mindset that needs to change. My mindset when buying a video game or anything for that matter, is that I expect it to perform as advertised on day one. For example we where told that the game would perform near 60fps most of the time, and at worst would not drop much below that. This is not what we got. Now I don't think the problem here is my mindset. In order to get the game to play with a better frame rate than the game 2K gave me, I had to disable my VIP, which inturn disabled my card collecting feature. Thats not what was advertised. That is unacceptable.

If I purchased a brand new car, which only ran correctly if I kept the headlights, and the wipers off, it would damn well not be acceptable, and definetly not tolerated. Now I understand that the comparison between cars and video games is apples and oranges, my point is still the same, I expect quality, fully functioning products when I plop my money down, that's my mindset. Expecting a consumer to change that, and accept anything less, is very dangerous in my opinion.

[Blzer]

Re: Major League Baseball 2K8 Review

Well, 2KLA, I must say... yet another year where virtually every video gaming company rates your game lower than your competition. I only hope you know where you need to prioritize next year so that you're no longer "playing second fiddle" to your opponent.

[Zackdawg]

Re: Major League Baseball 2K8 Review

I have to respectfully disagree with your view that it's our mindset that needs to change. My mindset when buying a video game or anything for that matter, is that I expect it to perform as advertised on day one. For example we where told that the game would perform near 60fps most of the time, and at worst would not drop much below that. This is not what we got. Now I don't think the problem here is my mindset. In order to get the game to play with a better frame rate than the game 2K gave me, I had to disable my VIP, which inturn disabled my card collecting feature. Thats not what was advertised. That is unacceptable.

If I purchased a brand new car, which only ran correctly if I kept the headlights, and the wipers off, it would damn well not be acceptable, and definetly not tolerated. Now I understand that the comparison between cars and video games is apples and oranges, my point is still the same, I expect quality, fully functioning products when I plop my money down, that's my mindset. Expecting a consumer to change that, and accept anything less, is very dangerous in my opinion.

Very well said. Why would any consumer demand less?

[Trevytrev11]

Re: Major League Baseball 2K8 Review

Two people in, or formerly in, the industry (Kush Gamer and DrJones) have both said that there is pressure from the higher ups for high review scores. I wonder what kind of reaction is going on behind the scenes with both the development team as well as the Take Two/2K executives. While I appreciate the overall direction this game is going, I wonder if the company has the same confidence.