Madden 09: Tackling Engine Blog & Video

[Steeler99]

Re: Madden 09: Tackling Engine Blog & Video

Really? So no gameplay improvements needed as long as they have In-game saves and accelerated clock? IMO the new tackling animations are a big difference.

Clearly every one of us on this forum have stated time and time again that the gameplay glitches should be the #1 priority to be fixed. If they have in fact eliminated the vast array of glitches that made 08' the horrible game it is, then yes, I would say in-game saves and accelerated clock would be more important to me than anything I see in that video.

As I stated in my above post I do not see any dramatic difference between that video and a video of 08, which is why I made my statement. If the video had shown dramatic improvements such as accurate gang-tackling, etc, then my opinion might differ.

As many of the adult gamers have stated previously, IN-GAME SAVES is a significant option that makes the game much more playable because most of us don't have the time available to play complete one hour games at one setting (time required for accurately game) . The ability to play one quarter or one half at a time, or just being able to stop when an issue arises is a huge option for me and would definitely make for a much greater improvement than anything I see in that video!

[coogrfan]

Re: Madden 09: Tackling Engine Blog & Video

OK, now your just being an idiot.

Buh-bye.

Obviously everyone wants to see a bug-free game, that isn't the issue here. Improving the basic interaction between players goes to the very core of Madden's gameplay, and will have a far greater impact than any other single change possibly could.

[ProStylez]

Re: Madden 09: Tackling Engine Blog & Video

Although I was not jumping out my seat while watching this video I did smile a few times which makes me want this game even more now. I don't remember so much info and video being released so early on Madden before, I think they are really trying to prove that they have made changes for the better and at the same time trying to win some customers back.
I'm sold....collectors edition will soon be mine

[FlyingFinn]

Re: Madden 09: Tackling Engine Blog & Video

Although I don't remember so much info and video being released so early on Madden before, I think they are really trying to prove that they have made changes for the better and at the same time trying to win some customers back.

I think sales were down last year so the hype machine was put into over drive.

[Steeler99]

Re: Madden 09: Tackling Engine Blog & Video

Obviously everyone wants to see a bug-free game, that isn't the issue here. Improving the basic interaction between players goes to the very core of Madden's gameplay, and will have a far greater impact than any other single change possibly could.

No argument here ... my point is I don't see that significant improvement in player interaction in this video. I really don't see an obvious difference between this video and what I have seen playing 08' as far as player interaction. That's my whole point to my initial post ... if they spent all their time working on that specific upgrade in lieu of adding other (frequently asked for options) then I feel they didn't give us the most "bang for our buck".

Everyone wants to see gameplay improved, but come on ... if EA is going to tell us that certain items (such as in-game saves) will not even be attempted this year because all of their time will be spent focusing on these gameplay issues, then we should be able to expect "significant" improvements in these focus areas?

[ODogg]

Re: Madden 09: Tackling Engine Blog & Video

No argument here ... my point is I don't see that significant improvemt in player interaction in this video. I really don't see an obvious difference between this video and what I have seen playing 08' as far as player interaction.

Just curious...how is no suction tackling, faster and more varied animation collisions and the ability to have multiple ways of breaking tackles no difference?

[Rocky]

Re: Madden 09: Tackling Engine Blog & Video

Really? So no gameplay improvements needed as long as they have In-game saves and accelerated clock? IMO the new tackling animations are a big difference.

Yeah, I didn't get that statement at all. I agree 100% here.

At the same time BrianKingsfan and Finn made some great points. WAAAAAY too much 1 on 1 interaction. Defenders just stopping when the ball carrier is right in front of them. I want to see at least two of them get in on the play (ala APF)

[Rashad19]

Re: Madden 09: Tackling Engine Blog & Video

After watching this video their is nothing in it other than a few new tackling animations. Let's be honest here...after you watched the video three or four times the novelty of seeing new footage wore off and you realized that all in all the tackling engine received a minor touch up from 08. Simply put this game needs a NEW engine altogether!! I don't understand why we are so quick to applaud the half hearted attempts EA throws our way. How many times are we going to let them question our intelligence? Until we see 3-4 man gangtackling, running backs pushing piles forward or being pushed back, no suction blocking, and 11 men swarming to the football with accurate pursuit angles who can all engage the ballcarrier we are still light years away from a true next generation football game.

[Steeler99]

Re: Madden 09: Tackling Engine Blog & Video

Just curious...how is no suction tackling, faster and more varied animation collisions and the ability to have multiple ways of breaking tackles no difference?

Maybe you've seen another video that I haven't, but based on the above mentioned video alone, I don't see enough to tell me "suction blocking", "collisions", or "breaking tackles" have changed significantly. It was essentially a video of a bunch of one-on-one tackle simulations?

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Like one of the other posters mentioned, these brief videos really don't do much to show what actual gameplay will look or feel like?

[poster]

Re: Madden 09: Tackling Engine Blog & Video

Better, but still lacking. The graphics are amazing though and it seems that Madden is trying to get some little things into the game moreso than NCAA. Need to see more than an EA marketing video though before I say more.

[DaveDQ]

Re: Madden 09: Tackling Engine Blog & Video

He makes this comment...

"This means that we can procedurally manipulate the animation based on physics without losing the personality and life of the characters the way ragdoll does, and without losing the creativity the animators can put into the motion."

I believe that's a response to what Natural Motion is doing. Right now the love is flowing for Natural Motion and Euphoria, but in reality, their physics engine is far too ragdoll looking.

There's still sliding in this video. When a second or third defender is around a tackle, he'll sometimes slide around on his feet. That's what's I think has always made Madden look so twitchy. I do agree though with his overall premise that things are reacting faster. That's the difference this year. It's not the new animations, it's the responsiveness of them and how they are happening quicker than in years past.

[BrianFifaFan]

Re: Madden 09: Tackling Engine Blog & Video

I will give props to the animations, they are much better and do have that NFL-level sense of violence to them. But I'd trade 90% of them for good fundimental form tackles in the flow of a realistic defensive scheme. But I'll try to make some peace. We really haven't seen much in the way of gameplay to give context to all of this. Just a couple of vids off of at best BETA builds. There is a lot of good. Maybe they'll have everything flow faster and more naturally. Offense and Defense. Maybe they got good feedback on tuning that made them decide to keep tweaking. Hoping.....

[roadman]

Re: Madden 09: Tackling Engine Blog & Video

Clearly every one of us on this forum have stated time and time again that the gameplay glitches should be the #1 priority to be fixed. If they have in fact eliminated the vast array of glitches that made 08' the horrible game it is, then yes, I would say in-game saves and accelerated clock would be more important to me than anything I see in that video.

As I stated in my above post I do not see any dramatic difference between that video and a video of 08, which is why I made my statement. If the video had shown dramatic improvements such as accurate gang-tackling, etc, then my opinion might differ.

As many of the adult gamers have stated previously, IN-GAME SAVES is a significant option that makes the game much more playable because most of us don't have the time available to play complete one hour games at one setting (time required for accurately game) . The ability to play one quarter or one half at a time, or just being able to stop when an issue arises is a huge option for me and would definitely make for a much greater improvement than anything I see in that video!

I agree with in-game saves and accelerated clock, and more so, accelerated clock.

However, since EA has been putting on the marketing blitz for this years version, people from here want better OL/DL interaction, better pocket formation, etc........

By the time EA is putting on the marketing blitz, it's probably too late to incorporate those suggestions. The game is probably at 80% build or higher at that point.

Last year at OS, at EA marketing blitz time, people around here were suggesting better presentation and get rid of radio guy. This was more important to the users last year. They upped the ante in presentation this year and brought back the announcer booth.

My point is, this might be too little too late regarding OL/DL interaction and QB pocket for this upcoming title, but now is the time to let EA know about this for next year.

I think EA invites some reps from internet sites prior to the release of the game and looks for suggestions for next season's game.

[LBzrule]

Re: New Blog And Video (Tackling Engine)

I'm happy to hear that the runner should be able to break tackles easier and it looks like jukes can be executed from a shorter distance too. Those are good things but I'll remain skeptical about this until I actually try it for myself.

I feel as if this article is a subtle or not so subtle attempt to undermine Backbreaker's newly touted ragdoll animations. While that game won't be a true competitor to EA, it does seem like an EA practice to preempt any competition in their sector which may be burgeoning.

The explanation offered for how this is a new animation system doesn't really sell me on the fact that it is truly a new system. If anything it states that motion captured animations are still present, but they are 'physics informed' -- whatever that actually means. For my money, it sounds as if the motion capture animation code was simply optimized to be faster and do away with some of the delay. The article also didn't really delve into how suction tackling figures into the gameplay mechanic other than stating it occurred via stalling out one player's momentum while a canned tackling animation was being searched for.

The fact of the matter is there still appears to be no gang tackling in the sense that other players can "add-on" to the tackling animation and change or shift the momentum of the pile and the runner. Until that update occurs, we will have to be satisfied with optimizations of their current mechanic. Which realistically, that's all I'm expecting after reading this article.

In reference to suction blocking, I'm also hoping that will be gone but the article doesn't really get specific about it. From the videos which are out, the pass blocking and the pocket formation look very similar to previous versions and the interactions between the dline and the oline still appear to be very stagnant and Tecmo Bowl like. In other words, I'm not getting my hopes up too high about improvements here. And I still feel as if this game will never really come close to replicating X's and O's football until they allow defenders to take on more than one blocker. You can pretty much throw out most real life defensive fronts until this change is present in the game.

All in all, it's nice to see the game becoming more responsive because that was one of my main gripes over the years. Running backs like Barry Sanders simply couldn't run they they could in real life because the tackling animations almost always started to take over when they were within 3 yards of any defender.

I agree with this. There is no add on tackling, which is gonna be a problem IMO with the way the backs break out of tackles, but I'm just not in the mood to take these things to task anymore. And I think you are correct there is nothing innocent here in their mentioning of ragdoll ect., it was a jab. That's what people are asking for and that's what people on boards are expecting to be the next big thing and EA does not have it in their game, so they come out and say mehhh, "we've done something better than that." And I'll say this right now, I know for a fact there will be nano blitzes.

[LBzrule]

Re: Madden 09: Tackling Engine Blog & Video

. Simply put this game needs a NEW engine altogether!!

And this will never happen. What you call engine in this statement game developers call a Library. When sports game developers start up they create a library that houses ALL of their games. This is why it is easy for them to move people off one game and work on another one. While they have to code for a different game, they are still coding within the same library. That's why EA was able to get this guy. The Library/Engine is the same engine in every game, it's just a different sport. They are not going to get a new library for one game under their umbrella. It would have to be for all of them. So the only thing you and I can hope for is that the current library is flexible enough for the desired changes that we want to see.