Madden NFL 09 Videos: IGN

[Rawdeal28]

Re: New Vids on IGN 5/30

Almost forgot. For those worried about the D lineman physiques, the Raiders have some hippos on the d line.

<<<<<RAIDER p fan<> raider fan

U WATCH YOUR MOUTH MISTER!!

[Rawdeal28]

Re: New Vids on IGN 5/30

first of all, great posts brian and teedog

we must realize what is going on right now. our voices can be heard. we have people from EA here listening to us. telling Ian that "2k5 is better than madden" is not going to make madden a better game. threads like the WR/DB and oline/d-line discussions is what will get us what we want which is "for madden to be better than 2k5".

what incentive does Ian have for bringing his other co-workers who work on the other parts of the game here to talk with us if its just going to be telling them they suck and should be fired?? or that u like a four year old game bettter than any next gen madden?? thats not helping anything or anyone.

telling an overweight person that thier fat and look like a hippo is not going to make them want to lose weight, but showing them the right way to eat and working with them just might change thier ways.

[spankdatazz22]

Re: New Vids on IGN 5/30

It's not about me and feeling special or wanting to try to boss folk around, playing internet "tough." I'm just saying that guys "it is what it is." We can't make the game something it ain't. Not this year, at least. But damn, don't bite the hand that feeds you.

When and if he gets tired of the critics to the point of leaving and feels this place has nothing to offer, then I'll say "I told you so......"

First of all good post. Second, I'd ask - what's going to be considered overbearing? In other words, what can/can't be talked about so Ian isn't scared away or offended... I say this half-jokingly because I do think it's about people wanting to feel special, and feel they're directly contributing to Madden's development. At least in part, and there's nothing wrong with that. I haven't read all of Ian's comments or every thread that's popped up the past few weeks, so I don't know the tone with which he's been addressed directly. While there may have been a few people being outright disrespectful, for the most part I think most people have easily been more than appreciative of his access and candor than they have of probably any other developer. So we may be talking from different perspectives.

What I'm seeing is "Now that Ian's here, we shouldn't complain like we used to and try to help him develop the game". Isn't that what many people have been doing without his presence? I thought that was the purpose of LBz's challenge, which brought this situation in the first place. It isn't about what 2K or Madden was, or what Madden will be - it's about what Madden is, right now. Personally I've never felt Madden "is what it is, nothing we can do about it". It is what we've allowed it to be. It's the only game I can think of where people allow themselves to have that "we can't do anything" attitude.

Sorry if I appear to be all over the place w/the discussion - it's just that I don't know what we're debating. I'm happy Ian's here and he's being receptive to comments and suggestions. But because of that, does that make Madden '09 a throwaway year? Or a jump off point, where Maddens '06-'08 - and now I guess '09 - are magically forgotten?

[countryboy]

Re: New Vids on IGN 5/30

telling an overweight person that thier fat and look like a hippo is not going to make them want to lose weight, but showing them the right way to eat and working with them just might change thier ways.

[countryboy]

Re: New Vids on IGN 5/30

First of all good post. Second, I'd ask - what's going to be considered overbearing? In other words, what can/can't be talked about so Ian isn't scared away or offended... I say this half-jokingly because I do think it's about people wanting to feel special, and feel they're directly contributing to Madden's development. At least in part, and there's nothing wrong with that. I haven't read all of Ian's comments or every thread that's popped up the past few weeks, so I don't know the tone with which he's been addressed directly. While there may have been a few people being outright disrespectful, for the most part I think most people have easily been more than appreciative of his access and candor than they have of probably any other developer. So we may be talking from different perspectives.

What I'm seeing is "Now that Ian's here, we shouldn't complain like we used to and try to help him develop the game". Isn't that what many people have been doing without his presence? I thought that was the purpose of LBz's challenge, which brought this situation in the first place. It isn't about what 2K or Madden was, or what Madden will be - it's about what Madden is, right now. Personally I've never felt Madden "is what it is, nothing we can do about it". It is what we've allowed it to be. It's the only game I can think of where people allow themselves to have that "we can't do anything" attitude.

Sorry if I appear to be all over the place w/the discussion - it's just that I don't know what we're debating. I'm happy Ian's here and he's being receptive to comments and suggestions. But because of that, does that make Madden '09 a throwaway year? Or a jump off point, where Maddens '06-'08 - and now I guess '09 - are magically forgotten?

I am going for the short answer.

Constructive criticism = Ok

Flaming criticism = no point & no value

[spankdatazz22]

Re: New Vids on IGN 5/30

what incentive does Ian have for bringing his other co-workers who work on the other parts of the game here to talk with us if its just going to be telling them they suck and should be fired?? or that u like a four year old game bettter than any next gen madden?? thats not helping anything or anyone.

I haven't read all the comments so if people were saying all that directly to him then that is ridiculous (and extremely rude). I only responded to someone making a seemingly valid observation about Madden '09 and heard "Ian already said [this] isn't going to change this year. So we're past that". That's the mentality I don't get I guess - the game hasn't even released and it seemed like I was hearing some things aren't to be complained about since Ian admitted it's not going to change this year. If Ian and the people he can round up truly desire to make the game better, imo that would be their incentive to visit and to interact with people here or on other sites.

telling an overweight person that thier fat and look like a hippo is not going to make them want to lose weight, but showing them the right way to eat and working with them just might change thier ways.

Not necessarily a good analogy, because I'd think a person that's overweight usually recognizes they're overweight - just a matter if they choose to do something about it or not. If being called names makes the overweight person say "that's the reason I'm staying fat" - well, that's a problem with the individual. Personally I agree that calling someone hippo or fatty doesn't help the situation and is completely impolite/rude/insensitive. But depending on the person's personality, being called those names can motivate the person to go out and lose the weight. To seek out the help they need to lose the weight. Or it could cause them to go into a shell.

Either way, I'm not trying to sidetrack things. I hadn't posted much because the board's been very active and I've just been reading. I only posted because I was getting the feeling that it seems like legit criticism of Madden '09 is off limits because we have an EA dev here interacting w/the board.

[roadman]

Re: New Vids on IGN 5/30

I only posted because I was getting the feeling that it seems like legit criticism of Madden '09 is off limits because we have an EA dev here interacting w/the board.

I understand, but that's not the impression I take. If a product comes out bad, then it should be criticized. I don't see the difference if there is a developer here or not. I'm sure the developer would love to hear constructive criticism to make the game better the following year.

As CB said, constructive criticism is always good, but the same old "why is this 4 years behind 2k, that isn't being very productive to the interaction of developer and posters.

[BigL]

Re: Madden NFL 09 Videos: IGN

The player models in the Giant/Pats video wwere improved from the first Giant/pats video that was released. Wilfork no longer has a washboard stomach which is good to see.

Other than that, it looks liek an upgrade over last years. Im not expecting anything fantastic. Hopefully they ironed out the bugs, and the PS3 version is as smooth as the 360s.

I also love how they cant show the entire starting lineups. Only the key players. Way to go EA.... NOT

[BrianFifaFan]

Re: New Vids on IGN 5/30

First of all good post. Second, I'd ask - what's going to be considered overbearing? In other words, what can/can't be talked about so Ian isn't scared away or offended... I say this half-jokingly because I do think it's about people wanting to feel special, and feel they're directly contributing to Madden's development. At least in part, and there's nothing wrong with that. I haven't read all of Ian's comments or every thread that's popped up the past few weeks, so I don't know the tone with which he's been addressed directly. While there may have been a few people being outright disrespectful, for the most part I think most people have easily been more than appreciative of his access and candor than they have of probably any other developer. So we may be talking from different perspectives.

What I'm seeing is "Now that Ian's here, we shouldn't complain like we used to and try to help him develop the game". Isn't that what many people have been doing without his presence? I thought that was the purpose of LBz's challenge, which brought this situation in the first place. It isn't about what 2K or Madden was, or what Madden will be - it's about what Madden is, right now. Personally I've never felt Madden "is what it is, nothing we can do about it". It is what we've allowed it to be. It's the only game I can think of where people allow themselves to have that "we can't do anything" attitude.

Sorry if I appear to be all over the place w/the discussion - it's just that I don't know what we're debating. I'm happy Ian's here and he's being receptive to comments and suggestions. But because of that, does that make Madden '09 a throwaway year? Or a jump off point, where Maddens '06-'08 - and now I guess '09 - are magically forgotten?

I think we have an individual who embodies both my statements and answers your question about being overbearing. Yves? But to kind of wrap this up, it isn't that 09 is a throwaway. It's just in the can regarding a lot of issues, i.e. OL/DL WR/DB. Now are those issues and their shortcomings enough to make a person not purchase? That's on each person here. Now it's about what has been fixed and can be fixed still in 09's cycle. And getting together ideas for 10,11,12, etc. To beat the dead horse of what 09 ain't and using Ian or Simon or whoever is not helping. Don't like it? Vote with your wallet.

But here's what sad. Even if you "take your ball and go home," (not meaning you) you still aren't helping the situation. Heck, the person leaving might have some valuable insight that could be the lynchpin that ties everything together. To make a great game. Who knows? All I know is that complaining never got anything done. Rolling up your sleeves and pitching in does. Even if that means shutting your trap and holding a kneejerk, emotional response and forcing yourself to focus and create a meaningful addition to this board where WE can get something done.

[countryboy]

Re: New Vids on IGN 5/30

I think we have an individual who embodies both my statements and answers your question about being overbearing. Yves? But to kind of wrap this up, it isn't that 09 is a throwaway. It's just in the can regarding a lot of issues, i.e. OL/DL WR/DB. Now are those issues and their shortcomings enough to make a person not purchase? That's on each person here. Now it's about what has been fixed and can be fixed still in 09's cycle. And getting together ideas for 10,11,12, etc. To beat the dead horse of what 09 ain't and using Ian or Simon or whoever is not helping. Don't like it? Vote with your wallet.

But here's what sad. Even if you "take your ball and go home," (not meaning you) you still aren't helping the situation. Heck, the person leaving might have some valuable insight that could be the lynchpin that ties everything together. To make a great game. Who knows? All I know is that complaining never got anything done. Rolling up your sleeves and pitching in does. Even if that means shutting your trap and holding a kneejerk, emotional response and forcing yourself to focus and create a meaningful addition to this board where WE can get something done.

[spankdatazz22]

Re: New Vids on IGN 5/30

I think we have an individual who embodies both my statements and answers your question about being overbearing. Yves? But to kind of wrap this up, it isn't that 09 is a throwaway.

lol yes, I hadn't seen that person's responses until today. Either way, I still think people have a right to be upset that this is year 4 next gen and we're already looking to year 5 to hopefully/possibly have Madden on the right track. I'm only saying that while I understand some are willing to give them as much time as they need to get the game straight, there are going to be others that aren't willing to continue being so patient. And imo that feeling is justified, since EA is the only developer that can make NFL games. I'm not endorsing people berating EA devs in any way, just saying that I think understanding should also be shown to those that are frustrated for having waited so long for a good NFL game - and are now being asked to wait longer.

[BrianFifaFan]

Re: New Vids on IGN 5/30

lol yes, I hadn't seen that person's responses until today. Either way, I still think people have a right to be upset that this is year 4 next gen and we're already looking to year 5 to hopefully/possibly have Madden on the right track. I'm only saying that while I understand some are willing to give them as much time as they need to get the game straight, there are going to be others that aren't willing to continue being so patient. And imo that feeling is justified, since EA is the only developer that can make NFL games. I'm not endorsing people berating EA devs in any way, just saying that I think understanding should also be shown to those that are frustrated for having waited so long for a good NFL game - and are now being asked to wait longer.

I'll agree with you about the frustration part. And the right to be heard. But all some the guys are doing is rehashing complaints that are sprinkled throughout other posts and already been addressed. Or in the 09 gameplay questions only thread venting and ranting just because they know Ian is in that thread at the time. They just want to use the opportunity to gripe. Or tell Ian how stupid Tiburon is in their design decisions. And what's worse is that they know they are asking rhetorical questions that they won't get an acceptable answer on. So isn't that just trolling after a fashion?

All they can really do now is either not buy it and offer some feedback info, which would be helpful. Wait until a year from now to get the lay of the land and make a decision then. Or lastly continue on the ludicris course of trying to right the injustice of the "evil EA monopoly" by complaining until the NFL "sees the light." Ha. Holding my breath on that one.....

[Rawdeal28]

Re: New Vids on IGN 5/30

I haven't read all the comments so if people were saying all that directly to him then that is ridiculous (and extremely rude). I only responded to someone making a seemingly valid observation about Madden '09 and heard "Ian already said [this] isn't going to change this year. So we're past that". That's the mentality I don't get I guess - the game hasn't even released and it seemed like I was hearing some things aren't to be complained about since Ian admitted it's not going to change this year. If Ian and the people he can round up truly desire to make the game better, imo that would be their incentive to visit and to interact with people here or on other sites.

well things like the o line/d line play will not be fixed this year. Ian has said that. but he has said that will be one of the top priorities next year. so what where saying is criticizing the line play for 09 is not helping anything. thats just bashing for the hell of it. but explaining to him how you think line play should be will be more helpful.


Not necessarily a good analogy, because I'd think a person that's overweight usually recognizes they're overweight - just a matter if they choose to do something about it or not. If being called names makes the overweight person say "that's the reason I'm staying fat" - well, that's a problem with the individual. Personally I agree that calling someone hippo or fatty doesn't help the situation and is completely impolite/rude/insensitive. But depending on the person's personality, being called those names can motivate the person to go out and lose the weight. To seek out the help they need to lose the weight. Or it could cause them to go into a shell.

Either way, I'm not trying to sidetrack things. I hadn't posted much because the board's been very active and I've just been reading. I only posted because I was getting the feeling that it seems like legit criticism of Madden '09 is off limits because we have an EA dev here interacting w/the board.

calling a fat person names will not motivate them to lose weight just like bashing madden wont help it become a better game. that will, in most cases, make the fat person eat more (due to using food as comfort. eat when your happy, sad, mad etc) and bashing madden will not make developers come here and chat with us. like country boy said, constuctive criticism will help a whole lot.

PS: yes not the best analogy but u get my drift. lol

[Ian_Cummings]

Re: Madden NFL 09 Videos: IGN

What an excellent debate. Thought I'd stop my EURO 2008 marathon session and chime in real quick with some points. Then I REALLY need to get off of here.

1. I appreciate VERY MUCH the folks that are "policing" so to speak and trying to keep things constructive. As you mentioned, when posts like the one from Yves? show up it is not easy for me to be civil and professional (and want to return) - I'm only human. Posts like his will also be the barrier for quite a while for ALL designers, artists, engineers, art directors, etc to join the forums...Phil and I have been at Tiburon and making Madden for a long time, and we know what to expect. A 2nd year guy probably can't handle that type of stuff professionally yet, so we need to keep them away from it.

2. I really wish we had more of a voice in the other feature areas. I know it's frustrating to have this out-pouring of information in gameplay and just have zilch elsewhere. Phil is working hard on that. I'll say it again, obviously I can't answer non-gameplay questions, but it doesn't hurt to post them somewhere anyway so it doesn't get lost (hopefully).

3. I think you all are right on that 09 shouldn't get a pass. If you've got old grudges harbored from 06, 07, and 08, or you're frustrated that we're still behind 2k in some areas, then let it fly. I think it's becoming obvious that Phil and I are trying to make some rather drastic changes around here - and we WANT you to be brutally honest about issues you see, because that ends up giving us all the more firepower to make Madden what we ultimately want it to be. Madden as a franchise has definitely had it's shares of ups and downs, and we want to bring it back to the golden era. For you and for us. So again...don't pull any punches. But again, the more constructive, the easier it is for me to sleep at night. Not like I do anyway.

4. I kind of agree though with a couple of the guys that you should know that OL/DL and WR/DB are major weak spots, and re-hashing complaints and known issues from other threads really doesn't do much. But that being said, again (back to point 3), let us have it...I don't care. The last thing I want to do is turn this into a censored hunky-dory love fest where we all talk about how awesome I am. We are big boys, we can take it. Based on all the feedback so far, we're feverishly trying to get last second changes in, but as you guys should know by now I will be honest and say so - those aren't good areas for Madden. Should you forgive me for it just because I'm posting? No. But should they be game-killers for you? I really hope not...again going back to one of my very first posts, my top 5 at the beginning of the year was this (and we could really only do 3 because of the tech investment):
1. Player control
2. Catching
3. Tackling
4. OL/DL play
5. Expanded Gang Tackling

We addressed the top 3 in many ways I never thought possible in a sports game...so hopefully those can outweigh the current weak spots and still let you see that Madden is FINALLY an EXTREMELY fun game with unprecedented control and really great catching & tackling. But if something IS a game-killer and the reason you a.) don't buy it, or b.) take it back, again, I want to hear that.

I just hope everyone will start to see that we ARE moving in the right direction, and the best part is that ALL OF YOU can guide that direction there moving forward. I mean we've made upwards of 25-30 changes just in the 2 weeks I've been on here...from the minor (sock color) to the major (getting gang tackling working right). That to me is getting pretty amazing. Imagine what will happen when we've got a whole year together, especially when we're getting feedback when ideas are still in the design phase. 09 is a great game...no doubt. But there is also some amazing stuff up ahead.

- Ian
(Awesome Guy)

PS - as per the other Q & A thread, I'm desperately trying to get the DL pancake issue fixed.

[BrianFifaFan]

Re: Madden NFL 09 Videos: IGN

Thanks so much Ian. I'll just speak for myself, it's really great what you and Phil are trying to do. And it makes me very happy to hear you're having a marathon UEFA session, seeing as I too am a soccer nut! I was wondering if maybe we should start a "criticisms/concerns" thread to keep that type of feedback organized and let guys have their fair voice. What think ye? We do normally have a "bugs/glitches" and "impressions" thread post-release....