NHL 09 Preview

[bad_philanthropy]

Re: NHL 09 Preview

I never got the feeling of the cpu cheating in NHL on superstar (with my frame of reference coming from EA football games). I have played countless games and just don't see any of the overpowered cpu goalies, AI cheating, etc... that I've heard others complaining of on this board. I think once you figure out how to read and react to the cpu it is pretty easy to dominate possession with most teams in the game, and once you figure out the puck possession and skating aspect of the game it becomes pretty simple to set up effective scoring plays.

I also don't find it that difficult to play defense in the game despite the controls being somewhat lacking, it's all about anticipation and making sure you don't allow the cpu to have good possession in the offensive zone. Kill the cpu's offense off the rush by backchecking and forcing the opposition into a low percentage play with good body position.

Basically I feel the same way as the other guys who made posts similar to mine.

[RealmK]

Re: NHL 09 Preview

Get of the pedestal, please. My god, what flaming rubbish, LOL.

What pedestal? He's 100% correct, adapt or continue to whine about non existant ai cheating because you refuse to change your game plan to overcome the ai ramping it up, really its your choice.

[ianlast]

Re: NHL 09 Preview

I also don't find it that difficult to play defense in the game despite the controls being somewhat lacking, it's all about anticipation and making sure you don't allow the cpu to have good possession in the offensive zone. Kill the cpu's offense off the rush by backchecking and forcing the opposition into a low percentage play with good body position.

Backchecking is the key, IMO. I rarely take control of my defensemen unless it's along the boards, and I know I can rub the CPU attacker out. Although defensive controls may be lacking, it's still pretty hard for the CPU to get good penetration when you line up 4 guys across the blueline.

Biggest thing to avoid is stupidly forechecking; you have to know how and when to forecheck.

[tgalv]

Re: NHL 09 Preview

complaing about cpu cheating is just whiner tactics. i give up less than 2 goals a game on superstar. it's not that hard. it's a friggin cpu team - after you've played for awhile, you figure out how they score goals. i was 38-3 last dynasty, simmed to the playoffs and went 16-1 to win the cup. i guess i'm glad that the cpu "cheats" i wish they cheated more. the game is too easy if you actually play smart and spend enough time playing to get at least somewhat good at the game.

[RealmK]

Re: NHL 09 Preview

complaing about cpu cheating is just whiner tactics. i give up less than 2 goals a game on superstar. it's not that hard. it's a friggin cpu team - after you've played for awhile, you figure out how they score goals. i was 38-3 last dynasty, simmed to the playoffs and went 16-1 to win the cup. i guess i'm glad that the cpu "cheats" i wish they cheated more. the game is too easy if you actually play smart and spend enough time playing to get at least somewhat good at the game.

Agreed 100%, I'm currently 39-15-0-12 and in 2nd place in the eastern conference just behind the Sens and my last 4 games the ai hasn't managed to score more than 2 goals per game. While I've scored 3-4. If my shot accuracy wasn't set to 1 it'd prolly be a whole lot higher goal totals on my end.

Even with the lack of defensive tools that 08 has (sooo excited for what defense will bring with 09) I don't have a hard time at all cutting down passing lanes and keeping the superstar ai to the outside and not giving them easy scoring chances. I too wish the AI would cheat more and turn on its "overdone momentum" because you know momentum in a hockey game isn't important and it never decides close games ever!

[metallicatz]

Re: NHL 09 Preview

When you play a game you notice a clear difference between Sidney Crosby and a Georges Laraque, and that is what is most important.

That's for darn sure. LOL. 25 games into my franchise and Laraque has got 1 goal.

[tgalv]

Re: NHL 09 Preview

the thing is, it works both ways, but the people complaing about it only see it when it works against them. the computer plays flat out stupid in the last minute of the game. i can't count the number of times i've needed a goal and all of a sudden the computer defense plays overaggresive and parts like the red sea for a breakaway. or after a goal scored against you, you win the faceoff, pass it to your winger and the defenseman on that side stupidly steps up and lets you cut to the middle and walk in all alone to tie the game up again.

[Cardot]

Re: NHL 09 Preview

the thing is, it works both ways, but the people complaing about it only see it when it works against them. the computer plays flat out stupid in the last minute of the game. i can't count the number of times i've needed a goal and all of a sudden the computer defense plays overaggresive and parts like the red sea for a breakaway. or after a goal scored against you, you win the faceoff, pass it to your winger and the defenseman on that side stupidly steps up and lets you cut to the middle and walk in all alone to tie the game up again.

So you're saying there is infact catch up logic...in favor of the human?

Having participated in many of these "Catch Up Logic" dicussions across multiple games and sports, I have come to the conclussion that perspective is driven by skill level....as some here have already hinted at.

The most skillful players can handle it when the CPU steps it up a notch. I am not all that skilled at video game hockey, and no offense, but I can't say it is a major life ambition of mine. I just play for fun, and I am quite content at a medium to lower levels.

But as much as I liked the game, the number of late goals by the CPU AND myself (especially the blue line floaters) did eventually become predictable and caused me to lose interest in playing.

[ohyeahbaby123]

Re: NHL 09 Preview

My Question: I know that we can play dump and chase this year, but will the AI force us too? I mean, what is the point of playing dump and chase if you can just skate into the zone untouched?

[tgalv]

Re: NHL 09 Preview

So you're saying there is infact catch up logic...in favor of the human?

the cpu plays more aggresively at the end of the game, on offense and defense. and if you are unwilling to adjust your game then you will get caught up on. i don't see how it's unrealistic or bad.

[catcatch22]

Re: NHL 09 Preview

the cpu plays more aggresively at the end of the game, on offense and defense. and if you are unwilling to adjust your game then you will get caught up on. i don't see how it's unrealistic or bad.

I think what Cardot is trying to say is that in NHL 08, for the intermediate player there is no pick up and play kind of feel. The learning curve is too steep after pro. Since pro is too easy, the amount of energy needed to be successful in the game is far more then what many would like to invest.

Which is unfortunate cause if you have the energy to invest in it, it is a great game. The game is very skill based with not enough "team/coach/strategic" play involved on the defensive side.

However that has been the form with most hockey games. I think they should go a bit more in depth in giving us more defensive strategies and make the user team play out those strategies more and better.

[kerosene31]

Re: NHL 09 Preview

People really think that the AI in NHL 08 doesn't cheat on higher levels? Puck magnet anyone? The lack of defensive controls are only part of the problem. You knock the puck away and it magically hits a CPU player perfectly in stride like 90% of the time. You just have to keep trying over and over and chasing until you get it.

I don't think there is catch-up logic though, I just think that defense is too hard. The CPU can score anytime, and they press hard when down. You can't just sit back and let them come at you or you get killed, so you go into their zone and play puck control to win.

I really hope they can make this a little more fair in 09. 1 on 1 battles are crucial in hockey.

BTW, all sports games have cheating AI.

[RealmK]

Re: NHL 09 Preview

People really think that the AI in NHL 08 doesn't cheat on higher levels? Puck magnet anyone? The lack of defensive controls are only part of the problem. You knock the puck away and it magically hits a CPU player perfectly in stride like 90% of the time. You just have to keep trying over and over and chasing until you get it.

I don't think there is catch-up logic though, I just think that defense is too hard. The CPU can score anytime, and they press hard when down. You can't just sit back and let them come at you or you get killed, so you go into their zone and play puck control to win.

I really hope they can make this a little more fair in 09. 1 on 1 battles are crucial in hockey.

BTW, all sports games have cheating AI.

Funny I must have a different copy of the game than you do, I win a good 85-95% of the one on one battles without too much problem. I also don't chase in the zone. the AI can't score from the boards, protect the slot, be patient force the ai to take bad shots its really not so hard.

I actually LOL'ed at the "BTW, all sports games have cheating AI" though, thanks for the laugh.

[Jgainsey]

Re: NHL 09 Preview

My Question: I know that we can play dump and chase this year, but will the AI force us too? I mean, what is the point of playing dump and chase if you can just skate into the zone untouched?

Good question. I would like to think that at the higher difficulty levels you would be forced to. Well.. depending on the defense you're playing against. Some lines on certain teams will give you the zone depending on the circumstance. But hopefully the AI will be forcing up to dump and chase and dig the puck out of the boards at a realistic level.

Btw, if you guys want to argue about catch up logic then why don't you start your own thread or bring back one of the dozen or so threads that already have pages upon pages of this argument. Maybe it's just me but it's getting kind of old. It's like you guys are arguing about politics. Certain people here believe that the game has catch up logic while others don't. I haven't seen to many people change their minds.

[ianlast]

Re: NHL 09 Preview

BTW, all sports games have cheating AI.

Okay...you're right to some extent, all sports games, at higher difficulty levels, will be programmed to grant the CPU opponent advantages in certain AI aspects or gameplay mechanics. But you know what it's called when CPU and human are on equal footing in this regard? Rookie level. It's going to be several years before AI can be programmed that will consistently outsmart a human opponent. Thus these advantages need to be granted.

IMO, the best games are the ones that give advantages to the CPU in areas that human opponents traditionally exploit. Madden 2005 is a perfect example of this...football glitchers almost always exploit on offense (this has become less true in recent years, what with nano-blitzing and such); Madden 05 had insane advantages for the CPU on D, albeit there were some odd areas you could still take advantage of.

Although the puck retention by the CPU in NHL 08 might get frustrating...this is the first NHL game I've ever played where I haven't completely dominated in the 'time on attack' column. So, hey, I'm not complaining.