APF 2K9: What Could Have Been

[capp34]

If they allowed full customization the game would sell more and create competition for madden.

[asu666]

Yep. The # ratings system is broken, IMO. I really liked the attributes system 2k used in APF. Gave you a better idea of what each player was really good at, and helped you better select your teams.

I would like an option like in another dearly departed series, NCAA 2K8, to turn the ability icons or stat numbers on or off depending on my peference. NCAA 2K8 did it with letter grades instead of ability icons, but it's basically the same thing imo.

Geezzzz, what is with all of the best sports games losing some crap license and disappearing. Keep producing games with great gameplay and let us fill in the blanks and share what we build.

[spit_bubble]

Re: APF 2K9: What Could Have Been

APF 2K9: What Could Have Been?

More like: APF 2K8: What Could Have Been.

Quote from the back of the APF 2K8 box:

"Over 240 Legends. Full Customization..."





Strange I thought the word "full" meant something else.

[jct32]

Re: APF 2K9: What Could Have Been

I have a question but it was probably answered during the first set of questions before APF2k8 was released.

Why couldn't VC just take ESPN 2k5 and update the graphics and just say they ported the Xbox Version to the 360. No roster update, same roster they had back in 2k5, or does the license protect against that?

[asu666]

I played four full 15 minute quarter games of NFL 2K5 this past weekend and had a blast. There is something about the 2K5 engine and presentation that just nailed the sport. At the rate EA is going, I'll still be playing 2K5 come 2K15. So far the only game that has come close to be as much fun is 2K8.

[texbuk84]

could have been but not. maybe next year. i was looking forward to this title.

[Malachi]

Re: APF 2K9: What Could Have Been

Great article. It almost pains me to see the lack of creativity, and innovation that All Pro 2K8 had. As I've said before it was so many ways that you can see this game failing. Yeah, not having the NFL License hurt, but you're not limited to what you can do and you don't have to stay within any sort of parameters that you would have with the NFL license. This wasn't an NFL product, but yet it was presented like an NFL product by keeping all of the NFL rules and regulations. I hated All Pro 2K8 for its lack of replay value, and honestly, I could care less if 2K doesn't make another football game this gen. What makes it so bad, they scrapped another all pro game just to make another bad game in PrizeFighter. Seriously, what are these people thinking? The only thing they can seemingly get right nowadays is the NBA 2K series.

[kbshowtime]

I thought it was going to be customizable, but even though it wasnt it was still fun for that one season....then it got boring....should of had a "franchise mode"

Would of been great if it had a franchise mode but it didnt and got real stale real fast. But even though I wasn't impressed with 2k8 hopefully there will be a 2k10. I believe 2k can make a great game if they get off their lazy *** and not sit out another year.

[spankdatazz22]

Re: APF 2K9: What Could Have Been

Great article. It almost pains me to see the lack of creativity, and innovation that All Pro 2K8 had. As I've said before it was so many ways that you can see this game failing. Yeah, not having the NFL License hurt, but you're not limited to what you can do and you don't have to stay within any sort of parameters that you would have with the NFL license. This wasn't an NFL product, but yet it was presented like an NFL product by keeping all of the NFL rules and regulations. I hated All Pro 2K8 for its lack of replay value, and honestly, I could care less if 2K doesn't make another football game this gen. What makes it so bad, they scrapped another all pro game just to make another bad game in PrizeFighter. Seriously, what are these people thinking? The only thing they can seemingly get right nowadays is the NBA 2K series.

Great article? When the author is talking about the game context could've had something to do with the "football gods" ruling over every city and... I had to stop reading that junk. Like so many other throwaway OS articles of late. Pretty much nothing useful in it but the title. 2K made lots of mistakes with some of the choices they made with APF, but gamers need to acknowledge the difficulty of what they were attempting. So many of us wanted the game to be what we (individually) wanted the game to be. This author's laughably talking about some "football gods" game, the IGN review slammed the game for not being more bold choices like rethinking overtime rules or something, etc. Everybody wanted the game to be what they wanted it to be and faulted it when it wasn't.

2K definitely tripped over themselves by making some frustratingly head-scratching choices. The game gives you no control over the cpu teams, and the generics. Perhaps if they approached the game with the idea of giving people that near-full customization many wanted (over everything except the legends), it would've extended the game's replay value somewhat on it's own. Personally I feel that was 2K's single biggest mistake. No franchise was a biggie also, but I think a bare-boned franchise mode would've been tagged useless and gotten almost as much flak as the hardcore gave it for not being there in the first place. In the end I think 2K was trying too hard to seperate themselves from the NFL. I can understand the approach, but in the end it's obvious that was pretty much unavoidable. I endorsed the approach myself and was wrong.

Still there's a lot 2K did right with the game, particularly on the field. And that's the frustrating thing - it's easy to see the game's immense potential that will likely never be realized. From what I've read APF didn't have a full compliment of people working on the game; it wasn't approached like an NFL2K or an NBA2K would be. Which makes sense, because it was a risky undertaking in the first place. But I think given that it's still pretty remarkable what they accomplished on their first attempt. Sadly gamers weren't going to show the game the patience they've shown Madden and NCAA, and in return we're going to miss out on something that could've been special in year 2/3, not year 5/6

[Behindshadows]

Re: APF 2K9: What Could Have Been

I agree with everyone else, I love APF 2k8, but the limitations and the options not to edit cpu teams and things like that! Killed my urges to continue to play. Plus the season mode was too dry, especially after having a great franchise mode in 2k5.

But to cancel 2k9 when all they had to do was grow from this one, and then advertise it better, instead using old rappers and crap like that. It would have been nice to see this series with some growth. But to pull the plug after one release is just terrible.

Prizefighter 2k10 canceled thats great news.

But not APF, just make it fully-customizable and let the mods run away with it, like they do winning Eleven. This would give the game long term Next-Generation growth!

[tabulaRasa]

It a shame those stubborn Madden fans never bought into NFL2k. Brand loyalty seems to be more important than quality. NFL2k5 was so much better than madden...

[burnwood]

Re: APF 2K9: What Could Have Been

In the end I think 2K was trying too hard to separate themselves from the NFL. I can understand the approach, but in the end it's obvious that was pretty much unavoidable. I endorsed the approach myself and was wrong.

I disagree with this. I think 2K stayed too close to the NFL. I don't remember playing APF and thinking...'this is the game that doesn't have that NFL leash on what video games shouldn't portray'. They put in NFL legends, rules, regs, and refs.

What I didn't see was the more physical and violent side of football (especially on the defence). There are late hits in the game, but most times the hits seem on par as with what the NFL allows.

There's also other things they could have really exploited that the NFL currently doesn't allow in their license. More visible cheerleaders, group TD celebrations, and more opinionated commentary comes to mind.

It really felt to me as another NFL clone without the license. VC commented before the game came out that they didn't want to alienate the NFL on hopes of somehow regaining the license at a later point. But in reality, did they really think they could have outbid EA in the future when the price would be much higher than what they couldn't afford before?

Balls to the wall is what they should have done.

[spankdatazz22]

Re: APF 2K9: What Could Have Been

But to cancel 2k9 when all they had to do was grow from this one, and then advertise it better, instead using old rappers and crap like that. It would have been nice to see this series with some growth. But to pull the plug after one release is just terrible.

It wouldn't shock me if EA announced tomorrow that the Take Two sale has gone through and 2K Sports as an entity no longer exists. It wouldn't have shocked me if that was said three months ago. It's hard to say what conditions they're having to work under, but I think it can't be an entirely positive environment at this point. Why work your azz off trying to improve something that most fans aren't appreciating in the first place? Let's say they make a kick azz game then... the TT sale goes through and all that work is gone/they no longer own it. I think there's a ton of variables we aren't accounting for. I look into the Madden forum and think... for better or worse, we're going to get what we deserve. At this point, 2K trying to fight to produce an unlicensed football game doesn't make sense from what I can see when people have made the choice to give Tiburon as long as it needs for the licensed games. I love the game and hold out hope they'd do something - patch '08, come out with a 2K10... but from a practical standpoint it doesn't make much sense given the climate.

[spankdatazz22]

Re: APF 2K9: What Could Have Been

There's also other things they could have really exploited that the NFL currently doesn't allow in their license. More visible cheerleaders, group TD celebrations, and more opinionated commentary comes to mind.

It really felt to me as another NFL clone without the license. VC commented before the game came out that they didn't want to alienate the NFL on hopes of somehow regaining the license at a later point. But in reality, did they really think they could have outbid EA in the future when the price would be much higher than what they couldn't afford before?

Balls to the wall is what they should have done.

Good points. And in retrospect I do agree with you somewhat, they should've gone farther to distinguish themselves. But it's still a tightrope - go too far, and you're more associated with Blitz. Full customization was always one of the biggest features people wanted and the reason they wanted it was... to recreate the NFL. Or something that resembled the NFL. Or the NCAA. Or whatever league they wanted to create. I argued at the time that the game was better off not trying to mimic the NFL, but now I have to admit a lot of my enjoyment of the game comes from creating NFL teams. There's just no way around it unfortunately. And I think they also had to take into account the vast majority of people that don't want to spend hours customizing; that simply want to pick up and play the game. Trying to come up with something that was going to work conceptually is difficult.

As far as getting the license back, most of us knew there was no way EA was ever going to allow it to go non-exclusive if they were allowed to use their pocketbooks to secure it. But who knows? Many of us thought the NFL might look at the quality of Madden and be willing to take the approach the NBA has - make it more about the quality of the games. So they could've been looking at things from that standpoint. There's any number of ways we could look at it.

[Cdenz]

I love this game, 10 X better than the Madden/NCAA crap we have have recieved the last couple of years, but this game needed a Franchise mode of somekind to help and maybe custom option to edit players names.