NFL Head Coach 09 Review

[Heshi]

Re: NFL Head Coach 09 Review

You CAN take this passive approach to the game, and then you will be BORED.

How about actually PLAYING the game? That means being an ACTIVE coach, trying to IMPROVE his team. Which can keep you VERY busy.

You seem to be missing about 90 PERCENT of what this game is about.

Well, I thought that I was missing out on something - so I tried to find something to do. But, besides some exciting trading or looking at your draft board for half a day, all I am seeing are some VERY unclear screens... all of them seem to tell you all and nothing at the same time. This annoying "Health and Fatigue" screen that pops up every morning, for example - why even bother looking at it? My impression is that clicking "sit him out" doesn't change a thing... Same for most of the three million personality attributes and the "emotional reactions" in game - so Donovan McNabb doesn't like me partying after he threw an interception and loses one friggin' approval point... thank god, there still are 97 left. Why are there six different approval ratings? Why care about the fans? Do they boo? Does the media try to write me into retirement or kick my arse in interviews?

One of my players is injured for a couple of weeks - "Go to depth chart", "Go to FAs" or "put on IR"? Nah, none of those, I just want to see a list of my injured players, for example? But there are no "out" players on the "Health and Fatigue" screen?

Even working the depth chart is one of the most intricate things ever in a sports game. God only knows why there have to be two player lists on the screen and I can't just simply switch players by clicking X and moving them around within their position. And why do McNabb and Westbrook keep coming back into the game after I tried to sub in my 2nd stringers?

Well, after all, my main point is, that this game is maybe the least intuitive game I have ever played - everything just seems to be extremely... umm... ropy. Tediously slow and too fast at the same time.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not an arcade kiddy - I've loved coaching games for decades now... I'm one of the freaks who have great fun playing "Baseball/Football Mogul" and watch the stats machine work or manage low league amateur teams who'll never make it to the third division in soccer games and follow their former player's careers after transfers ("Oh, my former Senegalese star striker plays in the reserves of Helsingborgs IF now"). I couldn't imagine beforehand that NFL Head Coach would be less fun than "Player Manager" (for those of you who still know this piece of crappy british software).

[havlen]

Re: NFL Head Coach 09 Review

Heshi,

You'll have to understand that there are a lot of people on this site that simply don't want to admit that there are big problems with Head Coach 09.

In many ways, the game plays like the madden engine was given to a group of people with great ideas but little experience in programming, game design and football knowledge.

I love the game myself, but I am not going to be blinded to its many flaws.

Bad game design:

The interface is atrocious. As you point out, there is no way to check a players stats from the acquire free agent or player trade screens. The bad interface decisions infest many other areas of the game, especially the playcalling screens. I'm not sure why the designers of head coach (both the original and this one) think they need to differentiate themselves from Madden and NCAA Football by creating a new playcall screen, but they've failed miserably both times out. The fact is that they shouldn't have been trying to reinvent the wheel in the first place. Sadly, the 09 playcall interface is actually worst than the original (which was pretty bad.)

Too many decisions that sided with being "gamey" rather than being realistic. Free agency is a primary example. I understand why they did it the way they did -- they wanted a way to break up the draft scouting -- but asking us yes/no on every available free agent was a pretty silly choice.

Bad/Inexperienced Programming:

Just play the games and count how many times it pauses. The performance is horrible. And then putting everything on its own thread when there are horrible load times = rookie mistake. Sadly, the poor programming of the gameday experience takes a lot away from areas like the coach's emotional response that should have been a neat part of the game but turns out irritating when it takes away from the time it takes to call a play.

Insufficient Football Knowledge:

Sadly, I don't know of any other way to explain defining moments other than assuming the developers simply don't know much about football. Is the media, owner and fans really going to roast me over the coals for not kicking an onside kick with 8 min left in the game and down by 7 pts? No. They'd roast me if I did choose to do an onside kick. Are they really going to roast me if I kick the field goal when it is 4rth and goal from the 4 yard line and I'm up by 7 pts with 2:23 left in the game? Um. No.

The defining moments are also hit by the bad game design bug. (I.e. they screwed up the idea on the chalkboard as well as the implementation). By giving a huge bonus by making one decision over the other, they are almost forcing coaches into making that decision (especially on the hotseat coaches) and when you combine it with how poor some of these choices are, you really see what should have been a great addition to the game becoming one of its most irritating points.

The defining moment *could* have been really cool. But it falls flat.

* * *

Having said all that, I am having a lot of fun with the game. So long as you have the ability to overlook some of the obvious flaws (and some people here on the board are too good at doing that!), it's a fun game for any football nut. I worry that the glaring missteps will cause it not to hit as big of an audience and thus ruin the chance of a Head Coach 2010, but the game itself is pretty addicting once you get into it.

[Lieutenant Dan]

Re: NFL Head Coach 09 Review

Heshi,

You'll have to understand that there are a lot of people on this site that simply don't want to admit that there are big problems with Head Coach 09.

In many ways, the game plays like the madden engine was given to a group of people with great ideas but little experience in programming, game design and football knowledge.

I love the game myself, but I am not going to be blinded to its many flaws.

Bad game design:

The interface is atrocious. As you point out, there is no way to check a players stats from the acquire free agent or player trade screens. The bad interface decisions infest many other areas of the game, especially the playcalling screens. I'm not sure why the designers of head coach (both the original and this one) think they need to differentiate themselves from Madden and NCAA Football by creating a new playcall screen, but they've failed miserably both times out. The fact is that they shouldn't have been trying to reinvent the wheel in the first place. Sadly, the 09 playcall interface is actually worst than the original (which was pretty bad.)

Too many decisions that sided with being "gamey" rather than being realistic. Free agency is a primary example. I understand why they did it the way they did -- they wanted a way to break up the draft scouting -- but asking us yes/no on every available free agent was a pretty silly choice.

Bad/Inexperienced Programming:

Just play the games and count how many times it pauses. The performance is horrible. And then putting everything on its own thread when there are horrible load times = rookie mistake. Sadly, the poor programming of the gameday experience takes a lot away from areas like the coach's emotional response that should have been a neat part of the game but turns out irritating when it takes away from the time it takes to call a play.

Insufficient Football Knowledge:

Sadly, I don't know of any other way to explain defining moments other than assuming the developers simply don't know much about football. Is the media, owner and fans really going to roast me over the coals for not kicking an onside kick with 8 min left in the game and down by 7 pts? No. They'd roast me if I did choose to do an onside kick. Are they really going to roast me if I kick the field goal when it is 4rth and goal from the 4 yard line and I'm up by 7 pts with 2:23 left in the game? Um. No.

The defining moments are also hit by the bad game design bug. (I.e. they screwed up the idea on the chalkboard as well as the implementation). By giving a huge bonus by making one decision over the other, they are almost forcing coaches into making that decision (especially on the hotseat coaches) and when you combine it with how poor some of these choices are, you really see what should have been a great addition to the game becoming one of its most irritating points.

The defining moment *could* have been really cool. But it falls flat.

* * *

Having said all that, I am having a lot of fun with the game. So long as you have the ability to overlook some of the obvious flaws (and some people here on the board are too good at doing that!), it's a fun game for any football nut. I worry that the glaring missteps will cause it not to hit as big of an audience and thus ruin the chance of a Head Coach 2010, but the game itself is pretty addicting once you get into it.

No disrespect, but that was the most negative positive review I've ever seen.

[Purplepower]

Re: NFL Head Coach 09 Review

Well, I thought that I was missing out on something - so I tried to find something to do. But, besides some exciting trading or looking at your draft board for half a day, all I am seeing are some VERY unclear screens... all of them seem to tell you all and nothing at the same time. This annoying "Health and Fatigue" screen that pops up every morning, for example - why even bother looking at it? My impression is that clicking "sit him out" doesn't change a thing... Same for most of the three million personality attributes and the "emotional reactions" in game - so Donovan McNabb doesn't like me partying after he threw an interception and loses one friggin' approval point... thank god, there still are 97 left. Why are there six different approval ratings? Why care about the fans? Do they boo? Does the media try to write me into retirement or kick my arse in interviews?

One of my players is injured for a couple of weeks - "Go to depth chart", "Go to FAs" or "put on IR"? Nah, none of those, I just want to see a list of my injured players, for example? But there are no "out" players on the "Health and Fatigue" screen?

Even working the depth chart is one of the most intricate things ever in a sports game. God only knows why there have to be two player lists on the screen and I can't just simply switch players by clicking X and moving them around within their position. And why do McNabb and Westbrook keep coming back into the game after I tried to sub in my 2nd stringers?

Well, after all, my main point is, that this game is maybe the least intuitive game I have ever played - everything just seems to be extremely... umm... ropy. Tediously slow and too fast at the same time.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not an arcade kiddy - I've loved coaching games for decades now... I'm one of the freaks who have great fun playing "Baseball/Football Mogul" and watch the stats machine work or manage low league amateur teams who'll never make it to the third division in soccer games and follow their former player's careers after transfers ("Oh, my former Senegalese star striker plays in the reserves of Helsingborgs IF now"). I couldn't imagine beforehand that NFL Head Coach would be less fun than "Player Manager" (for those of you who still know this piece of crappy british software).

I think you are looking at this as a one time/one season game, or not wanting to play a whole career out. This game has very high learning curve, that no one is going to master during a few hours. I will be the first to admit, yes they are things in the game that could be better. However, from what I have read from your post....you haven't honestly gave the game a chance. Yes, the free agents do pop up. And you can go look at them, before hand if you think you need someone...but I guess you missed it in your haste to get to the game already. Myself, once I get the free agent I want, I'am off to the other things like setting my roster, looking at who I'am going to cut this week. I know I'am not intrested in anyone else at the moment, and just don't even go to the clip board. It takes care of itself.

Yes, the reaction of your players matter...maybe not on that one play, but they do add up. If you loose the trust of your players....you lose your job. But again, if you only want to play a game or so....cool. You have got to learn your players....just like a real coach does. He knows who he can lean on...others handle with care. Then if the players don't support you, they don't master the playbooks, you lose.

Yes, the the definning moments are a bit over done. But have you ever listened to a talk radio show talking about their hometown team. In Charlotte with the Panthers, they talk about every missed chance like it was the worst call ever. What people think about the coachs playcalling might not seem important, but thats what brings people to the stands. So, if you lose the trust of your fans....the owner sees all of those empty seats...again no job. But yes...what does it matter if you are only wanting one game/one season.

Unless you are going to play this more than a few times thur out your career, or season, their is no point to play. Unlike some of the games you mention (baseball mongol - I have) those are more of a stat game. There is no playbook knowledge, coaching skill points to accure...really not much to do other than sub in a guy, and call a bunt, or hit. I'am not a soceer guy...so I can't compair games.

There is so much more to this game than just showing up and wanting to play. If anyone thinks otherwise then they too will be disappointed. It's not a game about graphics, or true to life stats. It is more about your coaching and seeing the long term outcome of what your team you put your stamp on.

[Heshi]

Re: NFL Head Coach 09 Review

I think you are looking at this as a one time/one season game, or not wanting to play a whole career out. This game has very high learning curve, that no one is going to master during a few hours...

You're not getting my point. I said I usually have fun with coach/manager sims... even with "Baseball Mogul". I mentioned BM because this game is, basically, no game. Still I found a way to enjoy it.

The most problems I have with Head Coach is the "atrocious" (copyright: havlen) interface. Every time I watch a screen it is either pointless or key information seems to be missing. I have to work around all kinds of things to find a way to play this game - call it the "learning curve" if you like to. I call it, umm... fussiness.

Just because this game is deep in some ways it doesn't have to be tedious. I really like to build teams (I could go on and on about taking my home town team Rapid Wien to the Champions League semi finals back in 1998...) - and yes, this game is about building a team, but it doesn't have to be a pain in the *** playing it. I think people are raving about Head Coach because it is the only such game on the market - and they have to enjoy what's thrown at them.

I understand you're not into soccer, but you should really take a look at all the soccer manager/coach games that are out there - there are really bad ones... and really good ones. In comparison, Head Coach is one of the worse.

[theanalogkid]

Re: NFL Head Coach 09 Review

It's a good game no doubt, but it does come with things that do need to be looked at if there is a next version such as

1. Running game - it's not usable on a consistent basis. Too many negative yard runs, and LBs get in the backfield way too fast. Everything has to be perfect in order to get decent yards.

2. Robo QB - Rex Grossman or any other below average QB should not have a completion percentage above 57-60 at best. There should be a drastic change between Peyton Manning and Alex Smith. Accuracy and Awareness should have a substantial effect. Michael Vick has one of the strongest NFL arms in the league, but his accuracy when passing was awful, especially deep. In my career, Alex Smith got up to 86 overall because all the Niner's did was pass, he shouldn't ever progress to that point because in real life, he's awful. (although that can be fixed in a roster update)

3. I should be able to bring up the player's ratings before I decide to bid on a player or not.

4. Season goals should be more realistic. Everytime I start a Jets career my GM wants me to trade for Desmond Clark, despite having Chris Baker, Dustin Keller, and Bubba Franks on the roster, in other words, the team is already pretty much packed in the TE position, and yet he wants me to cram another on the team.

5. Have the ability to frontload contracts and be able to apporach players for contract extensions to create more cap room or take a paycut. That I think is more realistic than having them approach you to take a paycut, no player in the league is going to give up money unless you ask, even than it's a very small group of players who take paycuts selflessly.

6. Tone down the effect of defining moments, and stop it from coming up in dumb times. No fan is going to bash the head coach for deciding to kick the field goal on 4th and 1 in overtime. You'd have to be a complete moron to fault a coach for doing that. If the team wins the game, the points should be given back, because no fan is going to berate a coach that won the game, again the fan would be a moron to do so. "Mangini is an idiot, he may have won it overtime, but he should have went for the TD instead of the FG." I've never heard anyone say anything like that before. Just doesn't happen.

[TCF]

Re: NFL Head Coach 09 Review

It's a good game no doubt, but it does come with things that do need to be looked at if there is a next version such as

1. Running game - it's not usable on a consistent basis. Too many negative yard runs, and LBs get in the backfield way too fast. Everything has to be perfect in order to get decent yards.

2. Robo QB - Rex Grossman or any other below average QB should not have a completion percentage above 57-60 at best. There should be a drastic change between Peyton Manning and Alex Smith. Accuracy and Awareness should have a substantial effect. Michael Vick has one of the strongest NFL arms in the league, but his accuracy when passing was awful, especially deep. In my career, Alex Smith got up to 86 overall because all the Niner's did was pass, he shouldn't ever progress to that point because in real life, he's awful. (although that can be fixed in a roster update)

3. I should be able to bring up the player's ratings before I decide to bid on a player or not.

4. Season goals should be more realistic. Everytime I start a Jets career my GM wants me to trade for Desmond Clark, despite having Chris Baker, Dustin Keller, and Bubba Franks on the roster, in other words, the team is already pretty much packed in the TE position, and yet he wants me to cram another on the team.

5. Have the ability to frontload contracts and be able to apporach players for contract extensions to create more cap room or take a paycut. That I think is more realistic than having them approach you to take a paycut, no player in the league is going to give up money unless you ask, even than it's a very small group of players who take paycuts selflessly.

6. Tone down the effect of defining moments, and stop it from coming up in dumb times. No fan is going to bash the head coach for deciding to kick the field goal on 4th and 1 in overtime. You'd have to be a complete moron to fault a coach for doing that. If the team wins the game, the points should be given back, because no fan is going to berate a coach that won the game, again the fan would be a moron to do so. "Mangini is an idiot, he may have won it overtime, but he should have went for the TD instead of the FG." I've never heard anyone say anything like that before. Just doesn't happen.

bet the 9ers are regretting not taking Rogers

on #6 i have to agree.. i get booed for wanting to kick a FG instead of going for it in the redzone on 4th and 5

[FootballSchemer]

The features are unbelievable... But the fact is I can't create the EXACT plays I want to run...

And as a head coach you should be able to do this...

EA did this feature right in create a playbook in Madden on PS2 and they messed up the whole feature in Head Coach...

Please Fix

[Sanchez_Mareno]

Re: NFL Head Coach 09 Review

i think you just dont know how to use it properly

[deaduck]

Re: NFL Head Coach 09 Review

Or he's looking for formations/sets that the game doesn't allow from a logic stand point.

I remember a lot of cheesy assed formations being created back in the day that abused AI logic in the game. Not to say if thats what a guy wants to do with his play creator, that it's wrong but this more likely a case of not being able the A-11 or something of that ilk.

[Chris_Staymates]

Re: NFL Head Coach 09 Review

not being able the A-11 or something

FWIW - The original design document for the feature specifically called out being able to create A-11 if you wanted to. We did some early prototyping and the problem was that the Defensive AI would go absolutely stupid. The time it would have taken to address this was pretty substantial and just wasn't in the schedule. I know that's a lame excuse, but...it is what it is I guess.

[claystone]

Re: NFL Head Coach 09 Review

Started up a new Franchsie as the Rams. I just had S. Jackson bust a 90 yard TD run.


Chris: why can't the defense AI read what your opponents offense scheme? My DC will be in base defense while my opponent will be in a 3WR or 4WR set. This was a big thing that was a torn in my side with the game.

[deaduck]

Re: NFL Head Coach 09 Review

FWIW - ... and the problem was that the Defensive AI would go absolutely stupid. The time it would have taken to address this was pretty substantial and just wasn't in the schedule. I know that's a lame excuse, but...it is what it is I guess.

Personally, I see no reason for anybody to make an excuse/apologize for this or most anything else that some folks tend to rant and rave about.

You made a great game. Not perfect, but great for me.

And clearly not great for everyone but it's a game of big steps forwards, not little tweaks, and that should be the hard fact that remains on the table when folks see fit to offer their criticism.

[VoodooChil]

Re: NFL Head Coach 09 Review

I dont post much if anything on any forums, but I felt compelled to offer high praise for this game. It is to me, by far the best football game out there. I hope we will see future versions of it. I love the depth. Although I dont get to play it often(with work, and the kids, and then competeing with my son for the 360), however we have owned this game since it came out with the Madden anniversary pack. Now I am not a huge gamer by any stretch as this is the only game I play( I would say about 2 hours a week on average-as I try to fit in 30-45minutes a day but doesnt always work out)and in the time I have put into it, it seems that there is always something different. Thanks for providing me an enjoyable escape from some of lifes mundane moments.

[john4magic]

Re: NFL Head Coach 09 Review

Which ones?

I just bought coach 99, the inside isntruction book doen't tell you a lot, what is the best way to start and get to know the game it self to be better with time.

thanks