Madden 09 Patch #2 Released, Impressions Here

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  • jvaccaro
    MVP
    • Jul 2008
    • 1037

    #316
    Re: Madden 09 Patch #2 Released, Impressions Here

    Originally posted by Walker8
    -I'm still able to complete way too high a percentage myself. Im completing between 80/90% of my passes and the coverage ai is still really poor. It may be improved slightly but i can still get those plays where a guy is open 99% of the time.
    ^^ Hmmmm, I'm willing to bet you could lower your pass block slider and find there's no way you'll have enough time to complete 90% of your passes.

    Also, if you're really actually finding the CPU QB plays too poorly, turn your pass reaction sliders down.

    There are work-arounds built in to be able to balance the game better to your liking...
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    • Garrett67
      MVP
      • Sep 2004
      • 1429

      #317
      Re: Madden 09 Patch #2 Released, Impressions Here

      Originally posted by ps2mike
      Yep, in my franchise 8 games played now i have a total of 5 penalties. Default penalty settings.
      Turn the sliders up. I had mine on 100 and was getting too many penalties.
      In one game I had about 3-4 false starts (CPU), 5 holding calls, 3 pass interference, clipping on a kick return and a facemask.

      I turned holding down to about 60, I haven't touched the other sliders (yet).
      Gamertags

      Xbox 360: Garrett67
      Playstation: Bean1967
      Steam: Axemaster5150

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      • Walker8
        Banned
        • Nov 2003
        • 980

        #318
        Re: Madden 09 Patch #2 Released, Impressions Here

        Originally posted by jvaccaro
        ^^ Hmmmm, I'm willing to bet you could lower your pass block slider and find there's no way you'll have enough time to complete 90% of your passes.

        Also, if you're really actually finding the CPU QB plays too poorly, turn your pass reaction sliders down.

        There are work-arounds built in to be able to balance the game better to your liking...
        that makes sense. I think its the same for the cpu... the cpu qb ai is abotu right right now. im just completing too many. i have a quick release drop back and know who's going to be open kind of style..... i can get single coverage and do a hitch play for 10 yards if i get single coverage every time. same with crosses from the halfback and several other routes like out patterns. im not sure if i let the cpu get a better rush if that will help but it makes sense, considering that stops the cpu from passing so well.... the coverage is still bad though and the cpu rarely makes a play on the ball on these routes if you have single coverage.. i make very quick reads, and have a very ball control, run the ball, short passing game, then go for the big play kind of offense. I'm better than robo qb lol. you think robo qb is frustrating, play me sometime, i'm like robo qb on roids. i'm not joking either. i can score every time down the field in 4 minutes drives every time calling different plays and a series of plays i use... its the same when i go online and play human opponents as well. i just have a series of progressions and go through my reads and if one guy isnt open the next guy will be and if he isnt the 3rd guy will be.

        like i was saying before the problem with this game is that the cpu doesnt make plays on the ball. the robo qb thing has been pretty much fixed because the coverage is good enough now where you can make plays. the problem is the cpu doesnt make those same plays. the cpu defensive coverage ai needs to be improved. Same with the cpu running game. Those are the only two problems i have with this game right now.
        Last edited by Walker8; 09-24-2008, 09:11 AM.

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        • Walker8
          Banned
          • Nov 2003
          • 980

          #319
          Re: Madden 09 Patch #2 Released, Impressions Here

          i remember last years madden peopel were upset because the defensive ai was too juiced and would make superhuman plays to cover up the lack of intelligent coverage ai. i didn't mind it so much, although i know it was just a way to cover up a lack of intelligent ai. its almost like they toned it down too much this year to compensate for that and that is why we are seeing the robo qb and completion percentages that we are. you rarely see the cpu make a play on the ball any more. Their programmers cant balance their own game at all, and it just shows how inept ea has become. Or they just do this stuff on purpose to sell more games, and dont balance the game correctly. I know i'm right here and that is what they did. That is the whole reason we were seeing robo qb because of the interception problems from last year.....
          Last edited by Walker8; 09-24-2008, 09:20 AM.

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          • davidandjordan
            Rookie
            • Aug 2008
            • 124

            #320
            Re: Madden 09 Patch #2 Released, Impressions Here

            Robo QB DOES exist, there's no question about that whatsoever. And it doesn't have anything to do with a human playing against the CPU. There's just something wrong with the whole engine, and player warping just contributes to the problem.
            After restarting my franchise, I'm 9 weeks in and the lowest starting QB completion percentage is 59%. There are more than 5 guys over 70% and Phillip Rivers is at 80%! For some reason, it's just very easy for the computer to complete passes. Player warping contributes, especially in man coverage, because if you have a reciever running with a cornerback right on his tail, when you throw a pass and lead the reciever, only the reciever is (usually) in "warp range" and suddenly speeds out of the coverage that is right on his backside and makes a catch. If there wasn't player warping, the CB would many times reach out in front of the reciever and be able to bat down a pass.

            There IS Robo QB. Franchise completion percentage is a clear proof of that. Anytime you have only a few guys UNDER 65%, there's something wrong. There should be only a few guys OVER 65%.
            Playing Madden for what it is, not what it used to be.
            If you continue seeking a Madden game with all of the options it had on XBox, you will be disappointed. If you accept that the next-gen version of Madden is a downgrade in every area except graphics, then you will find a true gaming experience.

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            • RogueHominid
              Hall Of Fame
              • Aug 2006
              • 10901

              #321
              Re: Madden 09 Patch #2 Released, Impressions Here

              I just gave this game a rental to see what it played like after the second patch, and it was, to my surprise, very fun. I lost with my Raiders to the Broncos 9-8 with 12 minute quarters and I would say 8/10 of the game felt very good. There was wonderful pacing, good, stiff competition all game long, and good stats for the most part. Kirk Morrison had 12 tackles, and their leading guy had 11--I love that! I haven't been able to have a defensive battle in Madden for ages.

              I was surprised to see that the CPU even missed a chip-shot FG--I've never seen that in Madden.

              The only things that seem a little off to me are the obvious: completion percentage and the running game. Cutler completed 80% against me and Russell 69%. I don't have a problem with Cutler shredding me, but 80% over 35+ passes is a bit much--I could see going 12-15 or something every now and again, but I'd love to see the completions toned down. And we all know Russel isn't going to hit 69%.

              It seems that completion percentages can be lowered with sliders, but I would love to see an adjustment to the simmed stats engine. I don't want to continue kicking the Robo QB horse, but I know Ian is a huge fan of realism (and this game is WAAAAY better than any other next-gen Madden, so kudos!), so a more reasonable bar should be set for stats. In Brady's super season he hit 68.9% of his passes. Montana and Young, two of the game's most accurate hit 70%, but only once apiece in two HOF careers. A very good season is 65%; last year's SB winning QB completed 56%, and even the new and improved version of Eli is sitting at 60%.

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              • Walker8
                Banned
                • Nov 2003
                • 980

                #322
                Re: Madden 09 Patch #2 Released, Impressions Here

                Originally posted by davidandjordan
                Robo QB DOES exist, there's no question about that whatsoever. And it doesn't have anything to do with a human playing against the CPU. There's just something wrong with the whole engine, and player warping just contributes to the problem.
                After restarting my franchise, I'm 9 weeks in and the lowest starting QB completion percentage is 59%. There are more than 5 guys over 70% and Phillip Rivers is at 80%! For some reason, it's just very easy for the computer to complete passes. Player warping contributes, especially in man coverage, because if you have a reciever running with a cornerback right on his tail, when you throw a pass and lead the reciever, only the reciever is (usually) in "warp range" and suddenly speeds out of the coverage that is right on his backside and makes a catch. If there wasn't player warping, the CB would many times reach out in front of the reciever and be able to bat down a pass.

                There IS Robo QB. Franchise completion percentage is a clear proof of that. Anytime you have only a few guys UNDER 65%, there's something wrong. There should be only a few guys OVER 65%.
                I agree that the completion percentages are out of whack and people are seeing these things. I'm not arguing that. I just think it's more a pass coverage problem than it has to do with the AI of the qb. It's a little bit of both maybe, but I think we are seeing these completion percentages because EA overcompensated for the juiced up defensive coverage ai from last year. If you watch the coverage ai the cpu rarely if ever makes a play on the ball and there are players wide open all over the place. the coverage ai in general is really bad. I agree it has to do with the engine entirely and the ai is not right plus its not balanced correctly. I don't think it's robo qb's we are necessarily seeing though. if you watch the qb they aren't doing anything that is really juiced. they are too accurate and dont make enough bad passes but if you pressure them, or have good coverage, they do. All I'm saying its it seems like more a pass coverage problem and that is why the completion percentages are out of whack.

                The problem with this game is the offense has advanced and the defense hasn't really and we are left with an unbalanced game. If EA ever concentrates on defensive ai and the cpu running game we will see a good version of madden. I agree the ai of the qb could be tweaked a bit but i tend to think we are just seeing this amplified because of other problems with the game. EA is pretty much inept imo and can't tell their *** from their elbow on a lot of this stuff, or they just don't care and rush out this game and it's extremely unbalanced. Last year was bad with all the interceptions and this year there really is no excuse. They had a whole year to fix the problems with passing and all they did was just make it just as messed up in the other direction.
                Last edited by Walker8; 09-24-2008, 11:47 AM.

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                • swanlee
                  Rookie
                  • May 2008
                  • 419

                  #323
                  Re: Madden 09 Patch #2 Released, Impressions Here

                  Originally posted by ps2mike
                  And there is no such thing as Robo QB. The only people who think there is a Robo QB are the ones who don't want to believe they just suck and can't play defense and need a excuse. Sure, maybe the CPU QB goes crazy in the 4th qtr when down but most the passes i've seen them do have been to open WR's. It's not like they are doing crazy stuff to get these yards.

                  Think your missing the point of the Robo QB complaints, even if your defensive skills suck every QB is going to make bad throws several times a game. Even in a practice or scrimmage QB's make bad throws which has nothing to do with the ability of the defense.

                  We want to see more badly thrown balls and passes that are just plain off target. No QB has perfect accuracy even if the defense completely sucks.

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                  • Walker8
                    Banned
                    • Nov 2003
                    • 980

                    #324
                    Re: Madden 09 Patch #2 Released, Impressions Here

                    Originally posted by swanlee
                    Think your missing the point of the Robo QB complaints, even if your defensive skills suck every QB is going to make bad throws several times a game. Even in a practice or scrimmage QB's make bad throws which has nothing to do with the ability of the defense.

                    We want to see more badly thrown balls and passes that are just plain off target. No QB has perfect accuracy even if the defense completely sucks.
                    I know what you are saying but if you cover guys and pressure the qb, the qb does make bad throws. actually cover players for a play and you will see the qb make bad throws. even if there is a guy wide open. the qb makes more bad throws the better the coverage is. if you have good coverage for several plays even if you have bad coverage one play you will see the qb make a bad throw. its like they get rattled... the problem imo is its almost like the qb gets in a zone, because the coverage in general is really poor and there is a lack of pressure. they start completing passes and get hot. then all of a sudden its like they are robo qb because their stats are boosted or something. there is momentum in this games logic. if you cover the receivers better and never let the qb get going you will see a lot more bad balls thrown. my defense has gotten better and im not seeing robo qb anymore.... my main problem at this point is im completing way too many passes and my qb gets in a zone because the cpu is not having the same success i am. the coverage in this game in general is really bad. it's all just really unbalanced. i agree the cpus accuracy needs to be turned down, but it's a bigger problem than that. Either the engine needs to be scrapped from the ground up or they need to retool it and get it more balanced somehow. They are getting closer and farther away at the same time. IMO it's not the engine, it's really just lazyness and someone in the EA office just not fixing the problem. I'm aware its not a simple fix and its a lot of things going on at once that is causing this, but it's still ineptitude.
                    Last edited by Walker8; 09-24-2008, 12:15 PM.

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                    • countryboy
                      Growing pains
                      • Sep 2003
                      • 52831

                      #325
                      Re: Madden 09 Patch #2 Released, Impressions Here

                      one of the reasons that QB's are so accurate in video games is because there is never a "miscommunication" between the receiver and the QB. A majority of the time when you see a badly off target throw its because the QB and WR were thinking differently. Perhaps the WR broke off a route sooner than the QB expected or the QB read the defense so that the receiver should go outside but the receiver read the defense and cut inside, etc...
                      I can't shave with my eyes closed, meaning each day I have to look at myself in the mirror and respect who I see.

                      I miss the old days of Operation Sports :(


                      Louisville Cardinals/St.Louis Cardinals

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                      • Motown
                        OS Brew Connoisseur
                        • Jul 2002
                        • 9169

                        #326
                        Re: Madden 09 Patch #2 Released, Impressions Here

                        Originally posted by countryboy
                        one of the reasons that QB's are so accurate in video games is because there is never a "miscommunication" between the receiver and the QB. A majority of the time when you see a badly off target throw its because the QB and WR were thinking differently. Perhaps the WR broke off a route sooner than the QB expected or the QB read the defense so that the receiver should go outside but the receiver read the defense and cut inside, etc...


                        Is there a player "read play" edit i.e. NCAA...wonder if lowering this would help?

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                        • DJ
                          Hall Of Fame
                          • Apr 2003
                          • 17756

                          #327
                          Re: Madden 09 Patch #2 Released, Impressions Here

                          Originally posted by Trojan Man
                          I just gave this game a rental to see what it played like after the second patch, and it was, to my surprise, very fun. I lost with my Raiders to the Broncos 9-8 with 12 minute quarters and I would say 8/10 of the game felt very good. There was wonderful pacing, good, stiff competition all game long, and good stats for the most part. Kirk Morrison had 12 tackles, and their leading guy had 11--I love that! I haven't been able to have a defensive battle in Madden for ages.

                          I was surprised to see that the CPU even missed a chip-shot FG--I've never seen that in Madden.

                          The only things that seem a little off to me are the obvious: completion percentage and the running game. Cutler completed 80% against me and Russell 69%. I don't have a problem with Cutler shredding me, but 80% over 35+ passes is a bit much--I could see going 12-15 or something every now and again, but I'd love to see the completions toned down. And we all know Russel isn't going to hit 69%.

                          It seems that completion percentages can be lowered with sliders, but I would love to see an adjustment to the simmed stats engine. I don't want to continue kicking the Robo QB horse, but I know Ian is a huge fan of realism (and this game is WAAAAY better than any other next-gen Madden, so kudos!), so a more reasonable bar should be set for stats. In Brady's super season he hit 68.9% of his passes. Montana and Young, two of the game's most accurate hit 70%, but only once apiece in two HOF careers. A very good season is 65%; last year's SB winning QB completed 56%, and even the new and improved version of Eli is sitting at 60%.
                          Trojan Man,
                          Glad to see you decided to give Madden a try. I haven't downloaded Patch #2 yet, but will today and am looking forward to playing. I've been spending my time with NCAA recently, and enjoying that as well.
                          Currently Playing:
                          MLB The Show 25 (PS5)

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                          • jvaccaro
                            MVP
                            • Jul 2008
                            • 1037

                            #328
                            Re: Madden 09 Patch #2 Released, Impressions Here

                            Originally posted by countryboy
                            one of the reasons that QB's are so accurate in video games is because there is never a "miscommunication" between the receiver and the QB. A majority of the time when you see a badly off target throw its because the QB and WR were thinking differently. Perhaps the WR broke off a route sooner than the QB expected or the QB read the defense so that the receiver should go outside but the receiver read the defense and cut inside, etc...
                            ^^ this could be a way to utilize QB awareness...
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                            • swanlee
                              Rookie
                              • May 2008
                              • 419

                              #329
                              Re: Madden 09 Patch #2 Released, Impressions Here

                              "I know what you are saying but if you cover guys and pressure the qb, the qb does make bad throws."


                              The QB should make bad throws even without pressure or good coverage. At least 3-5 throws a game should be just bad throws, to low to high, off target etc. badly timed. Even when given great protection against a weak defense QB's will still make bad throws even the best of them.

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                              • BroMontana82
                                Support Sim
                                • Nov 2004
                                • 2225

                                #330
                                Re: Madden 09 Patch #2 Released, Impressions Here

                                i agree that there are some bad throws from time to time based on the routes receivers are running. at least in NCAA the sliders really helped this out. i think adjusting the accuracy slider helps a little bit and hopefully the DLC (if there still is one upcoming) will have the CPU sliders. this really made the NCAA gameplay 100% better.

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