National League Divisional Series: Milwaukee v. Philadelphia

[OSUFan_88]

Re: National League Divisional Series: Milwaukee v. Philadelphia

First of all, postseason stats are a joke to begin with because of the small sample size.

Sabathia has started five games in the postseason. FIVE. FiveFiveFiveFiveFiveFive.

C.C. Sabathia has started over 250 games in his major league career. He was freakin' awesome for Milwaukee this season and carried them down the stretch. His start on Sunday afternoon was more important than last night's - again, on three days rest ... again - anyway.

To label him a choker in the postseason is ludicrous. He's pitched five times. If we were talking about someone like Andy Petitte, who has 35 career postseason starts, that's fine. We're talking about five. One of them - his best start - was seven years ago. Last year he got beat twice by the team that won the World Series. Wow, what a choker.

You're right. He's a total bum in the postseason. He can make all those clutch starts all year long, but when the calendar turns over to October, he just can't handle it anymore.

So because CC hasn't been in the postseason enough, he cannot be a choker?

Gotcha. You're wrong IMO, but at least I can understand your point of view.

[DrJones]

Re: National League Divisional Series: Milwaukee v. Philadelphia

People already know how I stand on this issue, so there's no point in responding to all the EPIC FAIL in this thread.

What I will say is that if the Brewers' season ends at home tomorrow or Sunday (as it almost certainly will), I hope that Sabathia takes a postgame curtain call and the Milwaukee fans give him a standing ovation.

[TheLetterZ]

Re: National League Divisional Series: Milwaukee v. Philadelphia

So because CC hasn't been in the postseason enough, he cannot be a choker?

Gotcha. You're wrong IMO, but at least I can understand your point of view.

No, you need to consider cause and effect. A --> B.

You said that because C.C.'s postseason stats suck, that must mean he's not capable of pitching well in the postseason. I'm simply saying that five bad starts, especially against great offenses and sometimes on short rest, don't mean a guy is not capable of pitching in big games. That's what you seem to be saying.

Even the greatest pitchers have bad starts, and they often come on short rest or against great offenses. To say that there's no way Sabathia can succeed in the postseason because he hasn't in four past starts is crazy.

[TheLetterZ]

Re: National League Divisional Series: Milwaukee v. Philadelphia

I mentioned Andy Petitte before when I was talking about sample size.

Andy Petitte has a career postseason ERA of 3.96 in 35 starts. That's pretty good, right?

Do you know what his ERA was after five postseason starts? The same number of starts that Sabathia has had?

It was 6.16.

[snepp]

Re: National League Divisional Series: Milwaukee v. Philadelphia

I mentioned Andy Petitte before when I was talking about sample size.

Andy Petitte has a career postseason ERA of 3.96 in 35 starts. That's pretty good, right?

Do you know what his ERA was after five postseason starts? The same number of starts that Sabathia has had?

It was 6.16.

CHOKER!!!!!

[OSUFan_88]

Re: National League Divisional Series: Milwaukee v. Philadelphia

Here is the thing. The trend is there, the trend of CC choking in the playoffs.

I'm not saying he will always be a choker, but right now there is a trend of bad starts in the playoffs. CC can certainly carry a team to the playoffs, but after that, he reverts back to young CC who was a thrower not a pitcher.

It's something he has always done when he goes into the playoffs. He changes the way he thinks than when he is in the regular season. Now hopefully he comes across a pitching coach that can fix that, but right now he hasn't, and hasn't shown any ability to turn it around.

[TheLetterZ]

Re: National League Divisional Series: Milwaukee v. Philadelphia

Here is the thing. The trend is there, the trend of CC choking in the playoffs.

I'm not saying he will always be a choker, but right now there is a trend of bad starts in the playoffs. CC can certainly carry a team to the playoffs, but after that, he reverts back to young CC who was a thrower not a pitcher.

It's something he has always done when he goes into the playoffs. He changes the way he thinks than when he is in the regular season. Now hopefully he comes across a pitching coach that can fix that, but right now he hasn't, and hasn't shown any ability to turn it around.

I like how you use this word "trend." Try sketching a "trend" line with four data points and see how accurate it looks.

"He changes the way he thinks?" What, is he your roommate now and he told you this?

Four bad starts. Four. I'm running out of ideas.

Greg Maddux. He's had a pretty decent career. Only one of the best ever, you know.

He's started 30 games in the postseason. He has a 3.32 ERA in the process. What was his ERA in his first five postseason starts?

7.00. That trend was so bad, he just kept pitching poorly in the postseason, didn't he?

[Speedy]

Re: National League Divisional Series: Milwaukee v. Philadelphia

Greg Maddux. He's had a pretty decent career. Only one of the best ever, you know.

He's started 30 games in the postseason. He has a 3.32 ERA in the process. What was his ERA in his first five postseason starts?

7.00. That trend was so bad, he just kept pitching poorly in the postseason, didn't he?

Out of 15 postseason trips, how many did the Braves win? Of course I don't put that on Maddux as he was in his prime during those years; more of the blame goes to Bobby Cox and his "use" of the bullpen...Smoltzie was the premier postseason pitcher. In fact, didn't he call the 1st Mil/Phi game?

The reason CC faultered was that he'd thrown nearly 400 pitches in 12 days. A big fat guy can't handle that...I mean I get tired after walking up 4 flights of stairs

[OSUFan_88]

Re: National League Divisional Series: Milwaukee v. Philadelphia

I like how you use this word "trend." Try sketching a "trend" line with four data points and see how accurate it looks.

"He changes the way he thinks?" What, is he your roommate now and he told you this?

Four bad starts. Four. I'm running out of ideas.

Greg Maddux. He's had a pretty decent career. Only one of the best ever, you know.

He's started 30 games in the postseason. He has a 3.32 ERA in the process. What was his ERA in his first five postseason starts?

7.00. That trend was so bad, he just kept pitching poorly in the postseason, didn't he?

CC is an emotional pitcher. You can see on the mound when he starts losing it. He starts stomping his feet and changes the way he throws. He goes from a pitcher to a thrower. He tries to overpower everyone instead of setting up his other pitches. Pretty much anyone who has watched him throw over the past 3 years could tell he becomes a different pitcher on the mound in the postseason.

But these 5 games mean nothing, you're right.

[TheLetterZ]

Re: National League Divisional Series: Milwaukee v. Philadelphia

Out of 15 postseason trips, how many did the Braves win? Of course I don't put that on Maddux as he was in his prime during those years; more of the blame goes to Bobby Cox and his "use" of the bullpen...Smoltzie was the premier postseason pitcher. In fact, didn't he call the 1st Mil/Phi game?

The reason CC faultered was that he'd thrown nearly 400 pitches in 12 days. A big fat guy can't handle that...I mean I get tired after walking up 4 flights of stairs

I'm not sure what you mean. Out of the fifteen times the Braves went to the playoffs? Maddux had a 11-13 record over that span, but his ERA was 2.81, so I don't think you can criticize him at all for that. He started 8-4. I guess the Braves offense was better during the early-mid 1990s.

I agree with everything else you said. And yeah, that was Smoltz, even though he admittedly hates the Phillies. I'm surprised they let him call that game.

[pfunk880]

Re: National League Divisional Series: Milwaukee v. Philadelphia

And yeah, that was Smoltz, even though he admittedly hates the Phillies. I'm surprised they let him call that game.

Yeah, I find it extremely odd that the Brewers' regular TV announcer and an Atlanta Braves player are on the call for this series.

[TheLetterZ]

Re: National League Divisional Series: Milwaukee v. Philadelphia

Yeah, I find it extremely odd that the Brewers' regular TV announcer and an Atlanta Braves player are on the call for this series.

I was at both games, so I didn't get to hear him. How'd he do?

[Speedy]

Re: National League Divisional Series: Milwaukee v. Philadelphia

I was at both games, so I didn't get to hear him. How'd he do?

He did well; Joe Simpson also color commentated and he regularly does the Braves broadcasts on Turner South...I figured since TBS is a Ted Turner production that's why he and Smoltzie called it.

About Maddux I wasn't saying anything in particular against him; he won usually about 18-19 games annualy and pitched well during the postseason...but his record in the playoffs is IMO a tribute to Bobby Cox's porous decisions in the pen rather than Maddux

[Skerik]

Re: National League Divisional Series: Milwaukee v. Philadelphia

Looks like Brian Runge wants to see a game 4 tomorrow.

[Misfit]

Re: National League Divisional Series: Milwaukee v. Philadelphia

And the Brewers force a game 4. I thought Sveum was too quick with the hook on Dave Bush but it worked out for him and the team. Crazy 9th to end it, that was a pretty ugly play by Victorino.