Phil Frazier Says No 3rd Patch or DLC For Madden 09

**countryboy** · 10-22-2008, 01:17 PM

Re: Phil Frazier Says No 3rd Patch or DLC For Madden 09

Originally posted by kt-od

That's a good point CB. But after this year with two dev's in the mix, they should know plenty of what this community wants. It is very well voiced. As I'm sure you already know. :wink:

Agreed 100%.

Madden 2010 will tell the tale so to speak, as to whether they are really listening to us or blowing smoke up our butts.

**Pared** · 10-22-2008, 01:34 PM

Re: Phil Frazier Says No 3rd Patch or DLC For Madden 09

Did you just agree with someone agreeing with your original point?

**countryboy** · 10-22-2008, 01:37 PM

Re: Phil Frazier Says No 3rd Patch or DLC For Madden 09

Originally posted by Pared

Did you just agree with someone agreeing with your original point?

Its been a long day at work. It has gotten to the point where my phone is on Do Not Disturb. Cut me some slack.

Can't wait to get home and...

**Pared** · 10-22-2008, 01:41 PM

Re: Phil Frazier Says No 3rd Patch or DLC For Madden 09

No Olive Garden on the way home.

**SoxFan01605** · 10-22-2008, 01:48 PM

Re: Phil Frazier Says No 3rd Patch or DLC For Madden 09

Originally posted by kt-od

That's a good point CB. But after this year with two dev's in the mix, they should know plenty of what this community wants. It is very well voiced. As I'm sure you already know. :wink:

Absolutely. I think, as CB said, 2010 will be very telling. That said, I still think some people will be very disappointed by what the interaction brings us. Remember, we (and Ian admitted as much himself

) are just one portion of the considerations they must make for 2010. While I do expect there to be significant changes based on our desires, I don't know just how significant they'll be. It's a very delicate balance. There are just so many things we all want, that I think only a small portion (hopefully the most important portion...if we can even agree on such a thing...lol) will find it's way into 2010.

As confident as I am that Ian will do his best to address our major concerns, I'm equally confident he doesn't want to lose his job by ignoring the majority of Madden gamers. I'm sure there will be at least one "why the heck are they putting that in Madden" type features...nature of the beast, I'm afraid. As long as we keep things in perspective, we should be able to tell just how much they're trying to consider us.

**countryboy** · 10-22-2008, 01:49 PM

Re: Phil Frazier Says No 3rd Patch or DLC For Madden 09

Originally posted by Pared

No Olive Garden on the way home.

**PaulZweber** · 10-22-2008, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by kt-od

That's a good point CB. But after this year with two dev's in the mix, they should know plenty of what this community wants. It is very well voiced. As I'm sure you already know. :wink:

This was said last year as well. Every year is the year they need to prove themselves, and they never do. As video games become more and more mainstream, and more and more marketable, big companies like EA have lost the original motivation for making a game. The business is all about money to most companies, and creativity has suffered. I don't think two guys can change a company, but hopefully they can change the direction the series is going. This year was supposed to be "The Year" for Madden. Online Leagues! 85 New Features! 20th Aniversary! Collectors Edition! We have asked for the same things for years and years, I don't put too much hope into the next one anymore.

**Tecahl** · 10-23-2008, 01:56 AM

Re: Phil Frazier Says No 3rd Patch or DLC For Madden 09

I really can't understand how anyone can defend EA anymore. Sad thing is, it's the same people everytime.

Yes, I have to look in the mirror and realize that nobody put a gun to my head and made me purchase this game, but that doesn't mean I have to feel guilty about being disappointed in it. I'm not the one who released a half-assed product and profited greatly from it. Normally, if a business continues to release products that don't work properly, they get punished for it. It even happens here. Everytime I see someone say that we are privileged by the fact that we have developers posting here or that we don't have a right to patches that fixes gameplay, it makes me sick. We even have to walk on egg shells whenever we have a point needing to be made for fear of "upsetting" Phil or Ian.

EA does this all of the time. They release the same game with the same problems every year, make a fortune off of it and then promise us features and fixes that don't work. And then, once the cash cow has been milked enough, any bug or glitch that wasn't fixed in the patch, that didn't really work in the first place, is something we'll hope for for next year, which, yet again, doesn't happen. I'm tired of waiting for next year. I'm tired of complaining. I'm tired of jumping through hoops just to make the damned game playable. There is nothing to suggest that these problems will be fixed and I'm getting so sick of people rising up to defend EA's honor here. They should no longer have the benefit of the doubt anymore, contrary to the beliefs of a couple of people here that shall not be named.

I can't say that I'm surprised here, and that's the most disgusting part of this whole situation.

**astarr** · 10-23-2008, 03:26 AM

Re: Phil Frazier Says No 3rd Patch or DLC For Madden 09

This probably has already been posted, so forgive me. What we all should do is let them ship 2010 and wait until the prices drop to around $30 before we buy. That way we aren't taking as big a hit to what amounts to a Beta copy of the game.

I have always been an EA guy, from the original Madden until know, but the lack of competition has killed the game IMO. Rather than competing for the hardcore fan (as they were with 2K), now they are trying to attract the outsiders.They know we get Football Fever, and our thumbs start twitching and money seems so unimportant, and we are ready to eat Ramen noodles so we can afford a copy of Madden.

The worst part is this year, I refused to reserve a copy, but I got on here and heard people arguing good vs bad, and it tipped me over the edge and I put down my $60 with a smile, and now I can't even afford NBA 2K9 (with a new baby coming and all).

The tragedy of this years game is that it is within reach of perfection. Let me explain. If you could take the smoothness of the graphics and combine it with the substance of past games, it would be right there. Instead it falls so short. It is almost unplayable for me. I would gladly give it back for my money back.

**SoxFan01605** · 10-23-2008, 04:00 AM

Re: Phil Frazier Says No 3rd Patch or DLC For Madden 09

Originally posted by astarr

This probably has already been posted, so forgive me. What we all should do is let them ship 2010 and wait until the prices drop to around $30 before we buy. That way we aren't taking as big a hit to what amounts to a Beta copy of the game.

I have always been an EA guy, from the original Madden until know, but the lack of competition has killed the game IMO. Rather than competing for the hardcore fan (as they were with 2K), now they are trying to attract the outsiders.They know we get Football Fever, and our thumbs start twitching and money seems so unimportant, and we are ready to eat Ramen noodles so we can afford a copy of Madden.

The worst part is this year, I refused to reserve a copy, but I got on here and heard people arguing good vs bad, and it tipped me over the edge and I put down my $60 with a smile, and now I can't even afford NBA 2K9 (with a new baby coming and all).

The tragedy of this years game is that it is within reach of perfection. Let me explain. If you could take the smoothness of the graphics and combine it with the substance of past games, it would be right there. Instead it falls so short. It is almost unplayable for me. I would gladly give it back for my money back.

It's a fair point and I agree about being patient about buying. The fact is though, like you alluded to, it's easier said than done for some people. I would love it (purely from an observational standpoint, nothing personal against EA) if they took a hit in early sales figures for Madden 2010. It would prove that many aren't satisfied with the product. I'm certainly not implying it would make a difference in the grander schemes (we are sadly a minority), but I would be curious to see just what percentage we make up. It's a pipe dream of course, as many who are so irate now will be the ones leading the way come next August, but it's fun to imagine.

As for those who can't afford to pick up a another game because they took a chance on Madden, my reaction is mixed. On the one hand, I feel their is enough evidence over the past few years to tell you to not be fooled by the early reviews (almost always positive as it's usually the bigger fans of the series with it first) and to resist temptation until more balance info is available. On the other hand, it's hard not to sympathize with a tight budget and the fact that if you really want new videogame football, you only have one purchase option. I'll always advocate being a careful consumer though.

Madden is not alone in these typs of issues. Even on the 2K9 forum their is a fairly large divide between it's fans and those who feel it's terrible. I think the general consensus from simmers would be positive, but it has it's own share of realism issues that some can't get past (and there are reports of freezing with don't surprise me...I honestly can't think of a single EA or 2K game that has been anywhere close to 100% stable. Don't know why sports game have these issues to be honest, but that's another discussion

).

I think it boils down to options. MLB 2K8 was a mess but there was The Show. NBA 2K9 has it's critics (though it's still the #1 B-ball game out there, IMO) but there's Live and NBA 09. Madden is always going to draw more criticism, and rightfully so, because it's the only football in town. I think critique aimed at making the game better is nothing but a positive. Hopefully Ian and co. feel the same way. Anyway, congrats on the baby!

On a side note, for the rant above the post I quoted, (and I can obviously only accurately speak for myself on this

) I don't think any reasonable person thinks we shouldn't be critical of Ian or Phil or any other developer for that matter. It's the insults and conterproductive whining that is so rediculous. I would also say that it IS a privelage to have the developers on here, but I agree that shouldn't give them a free pass. As for patches, I won't go into what our rights really are (hint: they're actually quite limited in this particular case) but I personally feel that patches are a responsibility of the given company. While we (contrary to popular belief) aren't owed anything, I think if there is a means to provide fixes for a sub-par aspect to the product it only makes sense for the company to make a strong effort to provide them. That is what brings people back. Well, that...and an NFL licensed game apparently...lol. Anyway, enough of my yammering...sorry.

**MJenness** · 10-23-2008, 07:50 AM

Re: Phil Frazier Says No 3rd Patch or DLC For Madden 09

Originally posted by Tecahl

I really can't understand how anyone can defend EA anymore. Sad thing is, it's the same people everytime.

Yes, I have to look in the mirror and realize that nobody put a gun to my head and made me purchase this game, but that doesn't mean I have to feel guilty about being disappointed in it. I'm not the one who released a half-assed product and profited greatly from it. Normally, if a business continues to release products that don't work properly, they get punished for it. It even happens here. Everytime I see someone say that we are privileged by the fact that we have developers posting here or that we don't have a right to patches that fixes gameplay, it makes me sick. We even have to walk on egg shells whenever we have a point needing to be made for fear of "upsetting" Phil or Ian.

EA does this all of the time. They release the same game with the same problems every year, make a fortune off of it and then promise us features and fixes that don't work. And then, once the cash cow has been milked enough, any bug or glitch that wasn't fixed in the patch, that didn't really work in the first place, is something we'll hope for for next year, which, yet again, doesn't happen. I'm tired of waiting for next year. I'm tired of complaining. I'm tired of jumping through hoops just to make the damned game playable. There is nothing to suggest that these problems will be fixed and I'm getting so sick of people rising up to defend EA's honor here. They should no longer have the benefit of the doubt anymore, contrary to the beliefs of a couple of people here that shall not be named.

I can't say that I'm surprised here, and that's the most disgusting part of this whole situation.

EXACTLY!!!!

**deebo2246** · 10-23-2008, 08:29 AM

Re: Phil Frazier Says No 3rd Patch or DLC For Madden 09

The funny thing about the situation of patches and dlc is that EA is not willing to foot the bill for their broken products. They consistently brag about making $150 million during the first month of release, yet to possibly fix their game it will cost a extra $100k or a bit more, however what is so wrong with pleasing your consumers and spending a little money to give them a better experience.

Another point is why are they so quick to launch their products so early when they know they are broken or flawed? NCAA in July, and Madden NFL in early August that is so dumb. They need to take the extra couple weeks or month to fix the routine flaws that are in their product. I know their are some who will say that if they wait the games will compete against each other, but that is the nature of the beast. College football is the NFL's competitor and that is why they play on Saturday so you can get the best of both worlds.

We do not really need these games a month before their actual season start. If anything launch them two weeks max before their season begins. Most of these games are shipped to stores up to a month before release and that shows the developers are more concerned about money and relying on patches to fix things that was part of the cycle anyway.

Like my previous posts, I have wishful thinking that EA will be ran like it was back on the Genesis system. "If it's in the game, it's in the game." They must be watching some other games then.

**SkinsBoYee** · 10-23-2008, 09:45 AM

Re: Phil Frazier Says No 3rd Patch or DLC For Madden 09

Ah...the old, we will see what 2010 holds. That will be the true test. I can't wait till its 2020 and we are saying the same thing. We have been saying that line since the jump to next gen. What is that 4 or 5 years now? I could be off.

I understand...we are not going to get everything we wanted...but the product is so poor. Its almost a joke. From lack of camera, to poor presentation, to gameplay that gets older than a witches boobies. Its the same thing year after year. The same, wait till next year till they get it right.

I may be in the minority but the exclusive rights agreement is the reason we have such a poor choice and product in the NFL football video game scene. Well I guess you can say it is indirectly responsible for it. There needs to be competition to drive product quality...and push the envelope for what WE, THE CONSUMERS, demand in the product. I admit...its my fault for falling for the drivel and the hype. But whats hurts more, is that I don't have a Next Gen, with all the bells and whistles from last gen, football game that I can enjoy playing. I am not a 2k5 fan boy, I am a fan boy of a good football game. Its sad that 2k5 is still the standard for presentation, gameplay...and quality football experience for gamers of my like mind. EA needs to wake up...the problem is, there is no competition for them to even need to.

**TheShizNo1** · 10-23-2008, 10:12 AM

Re: Phil Frazier Says No 3rd Patch or DLC For Madden 09

Game was defective at purchase. 2nd Patch, the game was still effed up that you had to delete all things Madden to get it to work right. Now no DLC? Wow EA get your **** together, or at least your communication.

**matt8204** · 10-23-2008, 10:26 AM

Re: Phil Frazier Says No 3rd Patch or DLC For Madden 09

Originally posted by SkinsBoYee

Ah...the old, we will see what 2010 holds. That will be the true test. I can't wait till its 2020 and we are saying the same thing. We have been saying that line since the jump to next gen. What is that 4 or 5 years now? I could be off.

I understand...we are not going to get everything we wanted...but the product is so poor. Its almost a joke. From lack of camera, to poor presentation, to gameplay that gets older than a witches boobies. Its the same thing year after year. The same, wait till next year till they get it right.

I may be in the minority but the exclusive rights agreement is the reason we have such a poor choice and product in the NFL football video game scene. Well I guess you can say it is indirectly responsible for it. There needs to be competition to drive product quality...and push the envelope for what WE, THE CONSUMERS, demand in the product. I admit...its my fault for falling for the drivel and the hype. But whats hurts more, is that I don't have a Next Gen, with all the bells and whistles from last gen, football game that I can enjoy playing. I am not a 2k5 fan boy, I am a fan boy of a good football game. Its sad that 2k5 is still the standard for presentation, gameplay...and quality football experience for gamers of my like mind. EA needs to wake up...the problem is, there is no competition for them to even need to.

The exclusive rights agreement IS the reason for the game's lack of quality and polish. EA knows that people out there love football and have no other choice if they want to play a video game based on real NFL teams and players. They basically have the ability to say, "Here's our product. If you want an NFL game, this is what you're playing. Take it or leave it."

Phil Frazier Says No 3rd Patch or DLC For Madden 09

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