Diamonds in the Rough: Ten Valuable Unknown Pitchers

[Bears_16_and_0]

what about john danks or gavin floyd from the white sox?

[HechticSooner]

Let us not forget Joe Smith the sidey who was dealt from the Mets in the Putz pickup. That kid is going to be something special next year watch and see.

[cnelly4]

Geez, the guy wrote a good article and gets torn to shreds. If you don't like his list, write your own!!

[snepp]

Re: Diamonds in the Rough: Ten Valuable Unknown Pitchers

Geez, the guy wrote a good article and gets torn to shreds. If you don't like his list, write your own!!

He's a big boy. If he didn't want to receive any criticism he would have kept it to himself.

[ELDoro]

Re: Diamonds in the Rough: Ten Valuable Unknown Pitchers

This is suppose to be unknown pitchers right?

People throwing out names like Joba, Danks, Floyd............those guys are pretty well known.


Joe Smith...the guy the Mets just traded would be the one that comes to my mind.

[SoxFan01605]

It's not a bad list, but I would think you'd use stats like BAA,K/9, BB/9, etc when looking at relievers.

and LOL at someone mentioning Joba. Hardly an unknown. He's one of the biggest hyped young pitchers in all of baseball.

[kehlis]

Re: Diamonds in the Rough: Ten Valuable Unknown Pitchers

It's not a bad list, but I would think you'd use stats like BAA,K/9, BB/9, etc when looking at relievers.

and LOL at someone mentioning Joba. Hardly an unknown. He's one of the biggest hyped young pitchers in all of baseball.

other very important stats for relievers...inherited baserunners that score and holds...

[snepp]

Re: Diamonds in the Rough: Ten Valuable Unknown Pitchers

The "hold" might be the most worthless stat in existence.

[kehlis]

Re: Diamonds in the Rough: Ten Valuable Unknown Pitchers

The "hold" might be the most worthless stat in existence.

do you feel the same about saves then?

They are basically the same thing...just in different innings.

[snepp]

Re: Diamonds in the Rough: Ten Valuable Unknown Pitchers

A reliever can come into a game with a 10 run lead, give up 9 runs, record 1 out, and get a "hold". It tells you absolutely nothing beneficial that any number of meaningful statistics can tell you better.

If you really want to know how a reliever pitched in important (or "high leverage") situations look at WPA.

[kehlis]

Re: Diamonds in the Rough: Ten Valuable Unknown Pitchers

A reliever can come into a game with a 10 run lead, give up 9 runs, record 1 out, and get a "hold". It tells you absolutely nothing beneficial that any number of meaningful statistics can tell you better.

agreed...this makes the numbers skewed...if they would place more guidlines on what constitutes a hold maybe it would hold more water...[/quote]

[bigfnjoe96]

Re: Diamonds in the Rough: Ten Valuable Unknown Pitchers

I brought up Joba. It was morning & didn't have any coffee.

[snepp]

Re: Diamonds in the Rough: Ten Valuable Unknown Pitchers

agreed...this makes the numbers skewed...if they would place more guidlines on what constitutes a hold maybe it would hold more water...

Yeah, if they want an official stat for non-closing relievers they really ought make some improvements to it.

I won't be holding my breath though, this is the same league that leaves the responsibility of the "official" scorers used at games in the hands of the team (which leads to a lot of highly biased scoring decisions).

[SoxFan01605]

do you feel the same about saves then?

They are basically the same thing...just in different innings.

Aside from what people already mentioned in regards to holds vs saves, I'd also add that I really don't put as much stock into saves as some do either. I play attention to Save % to a bigger degree, but that's not all encompassing either.

The trouble with saves is there are too many things going into it. Look at K-Rod. He set the saves record because essentially his team was in a lot of close games. His raw numbers weren't as impressive as several other closers, yet he was perceived as the best closer last year.

Do you know who led the league in saves the year before? The answer might surprise you because aside from total saves (I think he had 44 or 45) Joe Borroski didn't have good numbers. In fact, he was designated for assignment Mid 2008.

I'm not saying saves (or ERA and W-L, etc.) are completely unimportant, only that there is much more that goes into a pitcher being valuable than the favorite stats.

[CWood2]

Nice read ...