MLB '09: The Show Preview with Screenshots (ESPN Videogames)

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  • Garrett67
    MVP
    • Sep 2004
    • 1429

    #166
    Re: MLB '09: The Show Preview with Screenshots (ESPN Videogames)

    Originally posted by Chris_SCEA_Sports
    I guess I might as well jump in here.

    If it was easy, we would do it. Thank you. Next question.

    Seriously, first we have to make a distinction between Player Geometry and the skeletal system. The Player Geometry (ie, the model) in the PS3 game is entirely different than the PS2 model. From head to toe, not a single poly, not a single texture is the same.

    What many of you are complaining about is the proportions of the skeleton....and this is simply not an easy thing to just change.

    Look at it this way. Put your hands together in front of you like you are clapping. Hold them in front of you palm to palm and imagine 2 more inches of length added to your arms.... your hands don't match up anymore do they? Same thing with holding a bat, adjusting your helmet, punching your fist into your glove, reaching into your glove to get the ball, putting your hands on your hips, etc etc etc...you get the idea.

    We currently have over 20,000 of these animations to convert. Like I said, if it were simple, we would push the "new skeleton" button and take the rest of the year off. Don't forget, it has taken us over 7 years to build up this catalog of animations. And yes, I know people will chime in with, just use a simple IK system, problem solved....well, yes and no...might get us part of the way there, but an IK system doesn't know how Derek Jeter holds his elbow during his stance, etc....so it may get the hands on the bat, but in doing so, will mess with the integrity of the animation.

    Please understand that we do take this seriously, and it IS something that we are looking at for the future.

    Enjoy.

    Chris


    And I'm pretty sure he knows what he's talking about.
    Gamertags

    Xbox 360: Garrett67
    Playstation: Bean1967
    Steam: Axemaster5150

    Comment

    • Chris_SCEA_Sports
      MLB Lead Animator
      • Feb 2003
      • 382

      #167
      Re: MLB '09: The Show Preview with Screenshots (ESPN Videogames)

      Originally posted by The Management
      Please cut it out. I said they had two choices. Spend the time on player models, or spend the time on other features. Not that I don't believe a developers explanation (which was given to me via PM). And I was using home as an example of real time animation adjustments. Home is probably using stock animations from some company anyway.

      Asking for a deeper explanation than "complications" is not out of line. I'm sure the SCEA developers don't mind the dialog either (not that I asked them specifically, they've probably been asked a million times).
      We don't mind the dialog at all...that is why we are here.

      If you look at things that way, then you could say just about every decision is a "marketing" decision...but that really is not the case. Every developer in the world has to cut and/or scale back features...even games with 3 year (or more) dev cycles...heck, I'm sure even Duke Nukem Forever will have to cut a feature or two to ship (just assuming here....I have NO first hand knowledge of DNF...so hold your PMs).

      Developers have to prioritize, of course. If we had endless amounts of time and people power ( ) we could do it all. We have our wish lists, you have your wish lists...etc. The fact is, we get a ton of new things into the game every single year, and we are proud of that...but, alas, some things just have to be put off until the future. Thankfully choosing jerseys in franchise and going the short way for the 3rd out at 2nd (among a TON of other things) made it in this year.

      Okay, back to work....

      Chris

      Comment

      • Gary Armida
        MVP
        • Oct 2003
        • 2533

        #168
        Re: MLB '09: The Show Preview with Screenshots (ESPN Videogames)

        LOL @ this thread. Anyway, the preview has me even more excited than before for this game and the pics look tremendous. Like I said in an earlier thread, if this game delivers like I think its going to, then I won't be buying another game for the rest of the year. Looks great so far. Thanks to the SCEA team.
        Formerly Favre4vr

        Comment

        • countryboy
          Growing pains
          • Sep 2003
          • 52707

          #169
          Re: MLB '09: The Show Preview with Screenshots (ESPN Videogames)

          Originally posted by Chris_SCEA_Sports
          We don't mind the dialog at all...that is why we are here.

          If you look at things that way, then you could say just about every decision is a "marketing" decision...but that really is not the case. Every developer in the world has to cut and/or scale back features...even games with 3 year (or more) dev cycles...heck, I'm sure even Duke Nukem Forever will have to cut a feature or two to ship (just assuming here....I have NO first hand knowledge of DNF...so hold your PMs).

          Developers have to prioritize, of course. If we had endless amounts of time and people power ( ) we could do it all. We have our wish lists, you have your wish lists...etc. The fact is, we get a ton of new things into the game every single year, and we are proud of that...but, alas, some things just have to be put off until the future. Thankfully choosing jerseys in franchise and going the short way for the 3rd out at 2nd (among a TON of other things) made it in this year.

          Okay, back to work....

          Chris

          Yes!! Yes!! Yes!! Yes!! Yes!! Yes!!

          Where's Mikey? Hey Mikey...its in man..its in..
          I can't shave with my eyes closed, meaning each day I have to look at myself in the mirror and respect who I see.

          I miss the old days of Operation Sports :(


          Louisville Cardinals/St.Louis Cardinals

          Comment

          • blinkfan77
            Rookie
            • Feb 2006
            • 328

            #170
            Re: MLB '09: The Show Preview with Screenshots (ESPN Videogames)

            Originally posted by Chris_SCEA_Sports
            We don't mind the dialog at all...that is why we are here.

            If you look at things that way, then you could say just about every decision is a "marketing" decision...but that really is not the case. Every developer in the world has to cut and/or scale back features...even games with 3 year (or more) dev cycles...heck, I'm sure even Duke Nukem Forever will have to cut a feature or two to ship (just assuming here....I have NO first hand knowledge of DNF...so hold your PMs).

            Developers have to prioritize, of course. If we had endless amounts of time and people power ( ) we could do it all. We have our wish lists, you have your wish lists...etc. The fact is, we get a ton of new things into the game every single year, and we are proud of that...but, alas, some things just have to be put off until the future. Thankfully choosing jerseys in franchise and going the short way for the 3rd out at 2nd (among a TON of other things) made it in this year.

            Okay, back to work....

            Chris
            Now you just made everyone change their underwear. Nice going!

            Comment

            • countryboy
              Growing pains
              • Sep 2003
              • 52707

              #171
              Re: MLB '09: The Show Preview with Screenshots (ESPN Videogames)

              Originally posted by blinkfan77
              Now you just made everyone change their underwear. Nice going!
              hope nobody's going commando..
              I can't shave with my eyes closed, meaning each day I have to look at myself in the mirror and respect who I see.

              I miss the old days of Operation Sports :(


              Louisville Cardinals/St.Louis Cardinals

              Comment

              • Blzer
                Resident film pundit
                • Mar 2004
                • 42515

                #172
                Re: MLB '09: The Show Preview with Screenshots (ESPN Videogames)

                Chris, I have a question of logic here, don't hark on me too much for it...

                Wouldn't you just be digging yourself in a deeper hole by adding many more animations this time around if you have a plan to change the player models later? Like you said, 20,000 animations in seven years is quite a feat, and to have to just go back to square one seems rather absurd. It seems as though the more logical approach would be to get the new player models, no? It's like spending a bunch of money on DVD movies when you know you're getting a Blu-ray player soon. Might as well either hold off or just buy them on Blu-ray now so you don't have to double-dip or have an inferior version later.

                Does that make sense? Again, I'm not trying to play devil's advocate here, but I was just wondering exactly how much more complicated will it get now that you're adding this many more animations before you do the player model change?
                Samsung PN60F8500 PDP / Anthem MRX 720 / Klipsch RC-62 II / Klipsch RF-82 II (x2) / Insignia NS-B2111 (x2) / SVS PC13-Ultra / SVS SB-2000 / Sony MDR-7506 Professional / Audio-Technica ATH-R70x / Sony PS3 & PS4 / DirecTV HR44-500 / DarbeeVision DVP-5000 / Panamax M5400-PM / Elgato HD60

                Comment

                • Scooter3
                  MVP
                  • Nov 2005
                  • 2680

                  #173
                  Re: MLB '09: The Show Preview with Screenshots (ESPN Videogames)

                  Originally posted by Chris_SCEA_Sports
                  Thankfully choosing jerseys in franchise and going the short way for the 3rd out at 2nd (among a TON of other things) made it in this year.

                  Okay, back to work....

                  Chris
                  Choosing jerseys in franchise is music to my ears!

                  Scooter...
                  "a mean motor scooter and a bad go getter"

                  Mark Twain:
                  " Man is the only animal that blushes, or needs to."

                  U.S. Army Veteran

                  Comment

                  • Chris_SCEA_Sports
                    MLB Lead Animator
                    • Feb 2003
                    • 382

                    #174
                    Re: MLB '09: The Show Preview with Screenshots (ESPN Videogames)

                    Originally posted by Blzer
                    Chris, I have a question of logic here, don't hark on me too much for it...

                    Wouldn't you just be digging yourself in a deeper hole by adding many more animations this time around if you have a plan to change the player models later? Like you said, 20,000 animations in seven years is quite a feat, and to have to just go back to square one seems rather absurd. It seems as though the more logical approach would be to get the new player models, no? It's like spending a bunch of money on DVD movies when you know you're getting a Blu-ray player soon. Might as well either hold off or just buy them on Blu-ray now so you don't have to double-dip or have an inferior version later.

                    Does that make sense? Again, I'm not trying to play devil's advocate here, but I was just wondering exactly how much more complicated will it get now that you're adding this many more animations before you do the player model change?
                    It does indeed make sense. You make a very good point. The animators ask me the same thing everyday.

                    The short answer is there are a lot of areas of the game involved in getting a new skeleton into the game...graphics programmers, motions systems programmers, character team, animation team, AI programmers...heck, pretty much everyone. Enormous undertaking. It is not as simple as dumping it on the animation team and having them run with it...but, we do have some very smart people working on the some solutions...so I am pretty confident it will all work out quite well in the end.

                    Okay now...really...back to animating...

                    Chris

                    Comment

                    • Kolbe
                      G4 Madden CD
                      • Nov 2003
                      • 732

                      #175
                      Re: MLB '09: The Show Preview with Screenshots (ESPN Videogames)

                      Originally posted by Chris_SCEA_Sports
                      It does indeed make sense. You make a very good point. The animators ask me the same thing everyday.

                      The short answer is there are a lot of areas of the game involved in getting a new skeleton into the game...graphics programmers, motions systems programmers, character team, animation team, AI programmers...heck, pretty much everyone. Enormous undertaking. It is not as simple as dumping it on the animation team and having them run with it...but, we do have some very smart people working on the some solutions...so I am pretty confident it will all work out quite well in the end.

                      Okay now...really...back to animating...

                      Chris
                      Lies... all of it!

                      We're sipping drinks on the beach right now...

                      -Kolbe
                      No really, we're trying to flatter you.

                      Comment

                      • countryboy
                        Growing pains
                        • Sep 2003
                        • 52707

                        #176
                        Re: MLB '09: The Show Preview with Screenshots (ESPN Videogames)

                        Originally posted by KolbeSCEA
                        Lies... all of it!

                        We're sipping drinks on the beach right now...

                        -Kolbe
                        I can't shave with my eyes closed, meaning each day I have to look at myself in the mirror and respect who I see.

                        I miss the old days of Operation Sports :(


                        Louisville Cardinals/St.Louis Cardinals

                        Comment

                        • WatchdogXC
                          MVP
                          • May 2003
                          • 1530

                          #177
                          Re: MLB '09: The Show Preview with Screenshots (ESPN Videogames)

                          I should not be this excited about a baseball game in December...I should not be this excited about a baseball game in December...I should not be this excited about a baseball game in December...

                          ...goes and resumes 08 franchise...



                          Wow! You guys are doing an amazing job with this game. I love 08 and pretty much everything I've wanted so far for 09 looks to be in. All I ask for is more hits into the gap or over OFs head.

                          Comment

                          • maball
                            Rookie
                            • May 2007
                            • 198

                            #178
                            Re: MLB '09: The Show Preview with Screenshots (ESPN Videogames)

                            will the psp version have the new stadiums in it too?

                            Comment

                            • countryboy
                              Growing pains
                              • Sep 2003
                              • 52707

                              #179
                              Re: MLB '09: The Show Preview with Screenshots (ESPN Videogames)

                              ok...now I'm waiting to hear about the Rule 5 draft and the option years for minor league players.
                              I can't shave with my eyes closed, meaning each day I have to look at myself in the mirror and respect who I see.

                              I miss the old days of Operation Sports :(


                              Louisville Cardinals/St.Louis Cardinals

                              Comment

                              • mike75
                                Banned
                                • May 2003
                                • 1731

                                #180
                                Re: MLB '09: The Show Preview with Screenshots (ESPN Videogames)

                                Originally posted by countryboy
                                Yes!! Yes!! Yes!! Yes!! Yes!! Yes!!

                                Where's Mikey? Hey Mikey...its in man..its in..

                                YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!

                                THANK YOU SONY!!!

                                lol

                                Comment

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