Does Utah deserve a chance at a split MNC?

[BigDofBA]

Re: Does Utah deserve a chance at a split MNC?

Utah is the National Champions, I will never recognize Florida or Oklahoma as even a co-National Champion.

LMAO. It's a good thing no one cares who you recognize as national champions. That's like me saying 2006 Boise State was a national champion.

Florida or OU will have the trophy. That matters more than some opinion.

[Cebby]

Re: Does Utah deserve a chance at a split MNC?

LMAO. It's a good thing no one cares who you recognize as national champions. That's like me saying 2006 Boise State was a national champion.

Florida or OU will have the trophy. That matters more than some opinion.

Don't worry, he's consistent and does it to his own team.

He considers the 1993 Auburn the national champions over his Florida St team.

[MassNole]

Re: Does Utah deserve a chance at a split MNC?

Not it's not. USC won the Pac-10, which went 5-0 in bowl games, and beat Ohio State by 30+.

OU beat 4 top 15 teams by at least 20 and that includes TCU.

TCU should have beat Utah at Utah but their kicker missed two FG's within 30 yards. Oregon State had Utah beat at Utah but the Utes came back and won in the final seconds.

Utah just beat an Alabama team that was one dimensional on offense and had an above average defense. Why don't you think USC, OU, or Texas would have done the same thing?

So last time Oklahoma ran their mouth about beating one of these "Cinderella" teams and how they didn't deserve to be where they were, how did that work out for them?

Oklahoma LOST, please comprehend this, they LOST this year. USC LOST this year, so yes you can sit back and say well Oregon State should have won that game vs. Utah, but at the end of the day THEY LOST, USC was not able to come back and win, Utah was, end of story. Florida LOST at home home to Ole Miss then they beat this very same Alabama team in a less impressive manner than Utah did, and Utah did it in what amounts to a road game, whereas Florida did in what was at the very least a neutral site game. Texas LOST to Texas Tech, who gain Ole Miss showed us wasn't as good as advertised. As Oregon also helped prove and Big 12 fans need to accept, as much as you think it was simply unworldly offenses that made you great, it was really a conference full of teams who can't play defense and referees who allow the offense to get away with much more than the defense that then inflates statistics (numerous calls in the game last night by a Big 12 crew show this).

Utah DID NOT LOSE, and the comparisons we have vs. common opponents between them, Florida, and USC are as good as we've ever had. They played their common opponents immediately after Florida and USC did and did better against those teams than Florida or USC did. These comparisons are as good as we are going to get, and when one looks at it, Utah out performed both Florida and USC. So please, if some expert analysis can explain it, why is it Utah was able to control a game vs. Alabama, whereas Florida needed to comeback on them? Why is it Utah beat Oregon State when USC couldn't?

[MassNole]

Re: Does Utah deserve a chance at a split MNC?

Don't worry, he's consistent and does it to his own team.

He considers the 1993 Auburn the national champions over his Florida St team.

You know that is apples to oranges, given Auburn couldn't play in a bowl game nor the SEC Championship game for that matter to have made their claim for a MNC.

[BigDofBA]

Re: Does Utah deserve a chance at a split MNC?

Why is it Utah beat Oregon State when USC couldn't?

What does it matter? Penn State destroyed Oregon State but that didn't mean they were better than USC.

2006 Boise St. was the only undefeated team that year. Were they the best team in the nation?

If Utah and USC played who would you bet on?

[Cebby]

Re: Does Utah deserve a chance at a split MNC?

You know that is apples to oranges, given Auburn couldn't play in a bowl game nor the SEC Championship game for that matter to have made their claim for a MNC.

They still DID NOT LOSE while FSU LOST.

Throw in Marshall in 1999 and FSU has won no national championships.

Hell, Hawaii only lost once last year compared to twice for LSU, so let's make them champs too.

[MassNole]

Re: Does Utah deserve a chance at a split MNC?

What does it matter? Penn State destroyed Oregon State but that didn't mean they were better than USC.

2006 Boise St. was the only undefeated team that year. Were they the best team in the nation?

If Utah and USC played who would you bet on?

So in other words, USC deserves a pass for losing that game. In evaluating who the best team in America is, we should not give consider that USC lost a game. By saying what does it matter, you are giving USC a pass, despite the fact that the games in question occurred just 7 days a part.

Similarly, we are giving Florida a pass for losing to Ole Miss. We should close our eyes, cover our ears, and scream LA-LA-LA when we mention Florida LOST a game. Then when it comes to Alabama, the win that CATAPULTED Florida into the BCS MNC game, we should by default credit them with a bigger accomplishment for beating Alabama than we do Utah, again the next game after they played Florida.

For Texas, we just give them a pass for losing to Texas Tech, just well because they deserve it. Similarly we should Oklahoma a pass for losing to Texas.

This isn't figure skating where we drop the high and low scores, this is football. These events happened and they give us the set of facts in which we must determine a National Champion. Utah showed up every week and won every game against a tough schedule. Just because the old guard doesn't like it doesn't mean it isn't so.

As for 2006, yes, Boise State deserves the MNC from that year. So Florida now only has 1 MNC to crow about.

[MassNole]

Re: Does Utah deserve a chance at a split MNC?

They still DID NOT LOSE while FSU LOST.

Throw in Marshall in 1999 and FSU has won no national championships.

Hell, Hawaii only lost once last year compared to twice for LSU, so let's make them champs too.

Auburn played an incomplete season, that is the difference. Saying otherwise is just blindly trolling. Stop pretending they weren't on probation, a factor what would ALWAYS be considered.

In 1999, the difference is FSU was undefeated as well, not a one loss team (nor did Marshall play the quality of schedule Utah did in 2008). So again, nice attempt to troll, but a baseless argument.

Again with Hawaii last year, they lost and lacked the SOS to be in consideration. Utah does not lack in SOS this year.

[Cebby]

Re: Does Utah deserve a chance at a split MNC?

Stop pretending they weren't on probation, a factor what would ALWAYS be considered.

So now you're factoring things that didn't even happen on the field?

Utah does not lack in SOS this year.

Yes they do.

Sagarin's SoS rankings:

Oklahoma: 8
Florida: 19
Utah: 70

The bottom half of Utah's schedule is incredibly weak compared to Florida and Oklahoma's.

[MassNole]

Re: Does Utah deserve a chance at a split MNC?

So now you're factoring things that didn't even happen on the field?

Yes they do.

Sagarin's SoS rankings:

Oklahoma: 8
Florida: 19
Utah: 70

The bottom half of Utah's schedule is incredibly weak compared to Florida and Oklahoma's.

Please stop deflecting the lack of merit of your argument by bringing FSU into this. If Utah was on PROBATION, unable to play in a bowl game, and ineligible for the Coach's Poll, then it would be similar. These are apples and oranges, you know it, but are just standing on a this crutch to deflect. Not acknowledging the differences is as well thought and articulate as this.

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As for the SOS, if you want to use Sagarin's rankings, you are also admitting that the ACC is the best conference in the country, as his conference rankings ranked them #1. That cannot cut both ways, you can't pick and chooose which part of the equations matter and which don't. I would however point out, those rankings fail to include Alabama for Utah, while they are included for Florida, a game that would surely up the ranking a bit, nor would Utah be getting the boost they (and OU as well) would be getting for TCU beating previously undefeated Boise State. Utah has beaten two Top 10 teams and two Top 25 teams (BYU and Oregon State). In a BCS conference, that would get you a MNC, so it should for Utah as well.

[BigDofBA]

Re: Does Utah deserve a chance at a split MNC?

So I guess if Hawaii had played a scrub in their bowl game last year and went undefeated they would be champs.

Undefeated Marshall and Boise State are also champs.

Had Ball St. went undefeated then they would have been champs.

Utah isn't as good as USC, Florida, OU, or Texas. I don't care what their record is. Had Utah played at TCU or at Oregon State they would have lost those games. They should have lost to TCU anyway.

Going undefeated requires luck. Utah had luck this year.

[goUTES]

Re: Does Utah deserve a chance at a split MNC?

So last time Oklahoma ran their mouth about beating one of these "Cinderella" teams and how they didn't deserve to be where they were, how did that work out for them?

Oklahoma LOST, please comprehend this, they LOST this year. USC LOST this year, so yes you can sit back and say well Oregon State should have won that game vs. Utah, but at the end of the day THEY LOST, USC was not able to come back and win, Utah was, end of story. Florida LOST at home home to Ole Miss then they beat this very same Alabama team in a less impressive manner than Utah did, and Utah did it in what amounts to a road game, whereas Florida did in what was at the very least a neutral site game. Texas LOST to Texas Tech, who gain Ole Miss showed us wasn't as good as advertised. As Oregon also helped prove and Big 12 fans need to accept, as much as you think it was simply unworldly offenses that made you great, it was really a conference full of teams who can't play defense and referees who allow the offense to get away with much more than the defense that then inflates statistics (numerous calls in the game last night by a Big 12 crew show this).

Utah DID NOT LOSE, and the comparisons we have vs. common opponents between them, Florida, and USC are as good as we've ever had. They played their common opponents immediately after Florida and USC did and did better against those teams than Florida or USC did. These comparisons are as good as we are going to get, and when one looks at it, Utah out performed both Florida and USC. So please, if some expert analysis can explain it, why is it Utah was able to control a game vs. Alabama, whereas Florida needed to comeback on them? Why is it Utah beat Oregon State when USC couldn't?

It can't be explained much better than this. Coming from a Utah alum, this is the most bittersweet day many of us have ever experienced. There is no gray area - we should be playing for the National Championship. You can say what you want about SOS and all that other BS, but we won all of our games (nobody else did), not to mention how we stacked up against the best teams we played on our schedule. Stop comparing us to past Boise and Hawaii teams - this isn't even close to the same thing. We just showed everybody why we deserve a shot at the MNC...there is no excuse to ignore it now.

I guess there's nothing left to do. We'll finish #3-4, and people will think of us as a cute little story and now, most of the country's college football can go ahead and get back to being delusional.

[J0nnD0ugh]

Re: Does Utah deserve a chance at a split MNC?

Computer schedule rankings are phony. Tough schedules should be judged by the number of teams that could reasonably beat you. You can get a higher SOS from the computer if you play a bunch of middle of the road teams, than if you play 3 ranked teams & a bunch of pansies.

[BigDofBA]

Re: Does Utah deserve a chance at a split MNC?

It can't be explained much better than this. Coming from a Utah alum, this is the most bittersweet day many of us have ever experienced. There is no gray area - we should be playing for the National Championship. You can say what you want about SOS and all that other BS, but we won all of our games (nobody else did), not to mention how we stacked up against the best teams we played on our schedule. Stop comparing us to past Boise and Hawaii teams - this isn't even close to the same thing. We just showed everybody why we deserve a shot at the MNC...there is no excuse to ignore it now.

I guess there's nothing left to do. We'll finish #3-4, and people will think of us as a cute little story and now, most of the country's college football can go ahead and get back to being delusional.

Utah deserves a shot to play for it all but I'm not just going to crown them champs because they went undefeated.

Why can't I compare Utah to 2006 Boise? That team went undefeated and beat Fresno St, Utah, OU, and Oregon State.

If this Utah team deserves a championship then so does the 2006 Boise St. team.

[MassNole]

Re: Does Utah deserve a chance at a split MNC?

So I guess if Hawaii had played a scrub in their bowl game last year and went undefeated they would be champs.

So by this logic Alabama is now a scrub team.

Undefeated Marshall and Boise State are also champs.

Had Ball St. went undefeated then they would have been champs.

In 2006, Boise State was more deserving than Florida. Hell their best win was more impressive than Florida's best win that year. With Marshall it was different, there were two BCS conference teams who finished undefeated. It was a different scenario and is apples to oranges.

Utah isn't as good as USC, Florida, OU, or Texas. I don't care what their record is. Had Utah played at TCU or at Oregon State they would have lost those games.

So last time Oklahoma played a non-BCS team in a BCS game, what happened? Or is this one of those things they get a pass on.