NCAA Football 09 Postmortem

[cameldunginit2]

Campus Legend was broken. It needs to be retooled to reflect a hurry-up offense at the end of each half. The QB needed to make more changes at the line and God forbid he audible to another play entirely. The QB camera angle doesn't allow the player to see the receivers. It would be awesome IMO if they ported the game from NCAA 07 for ps2/xbox to next gen. Those games were awesome and had good mini games that actually had something to do with football. Madden also needs to port to next gen from 06. Just my opinion.

[Bumble14]

Re: NCAA Football 09 Postmortem

All-

I just wanted to clarify this article as it has garnered a lot of passionate response from our community (which is what OS is all about).

The point of this retrospective review was more to touch on the things that NCAA 09 did right, before we start tearing the game down in our wishlist threads for NCAA 2010. I felt it was important to talk about the positives in 09, as we can not fully know where we want to go in the future without knowing where we have already been.

Sure, the game is not perfect, and there are always areas to improve on for us rabid sports gamers- but I really enjoyed NCAA 09 this year. The game was very enjoyable, and the scores that I posted were based on my enjoyement with the product in the noted areas.

Also, please be aware that a retrospective postmortem review is not the official OS review of the game. As I said before, the purpose of this article was to touch on NCAA 09 one last time, talk about what it did right, what was enjoyable about it, and to give an overview of what exactly it brought to the table this season for the NCAA Football genre.

Postmortem=game officially dead- time to tear the game apart, and put our improvements into the OS Consolidated Wishlist that we already have posted. I believe you will even find some posts from "Mr. NCAA 09 lover", Christian McLeod/Bumble14 in there as well ;-) You will find I love this series just as much as many of you, and am just as passionate about improvements in certain areas.

[bangpow]

Re: NCAA Football 09 Postmortem

I agree that they are our voice, in a sense. That is why I suggested an article highlight the issues the community has with the game. I think this is just one individual's take on the game but much like you said can be interpreted as to being the general consensus of OS.

That, IMHO, would be a shame.

I just feel claiming they are on the take is unfair as someone may honestly feel the gameplay is an A. Would I or others agree with them? No... but that doesn't mean they don't have a right to their opinion.

But yes, when it becomes the voice of the community I can understand the resulting worry and frustrations.

Actually, Pared. A LOT of these issues were brought up at the NCAA Community Event that took place last year.....before the game was released. Like, a couple months before, if I remember correctly.

There's no need for a community article.

[Pared]

Re: NCAA Football 09 Postmortem

Actually, Pared. A LOT of these issues were brought up at the NCAA Community Event that took place last year.....before the game was released. Like, a couple months before, if I remember correctly.

There's no need for a community article.

I know that but I'm making the comments in reference to the articles that get posted at OS...

I know all about the community day "fiasco" that went on. Hopefully the scope of community day changes as well as what the "suits" deem as what is necessary to sell an NCAA football game this year.

[rudyjuly2]

Re: NCAA Football 09 Postmortem

It's funny how the Show had complaints about the game being too easy last year for the elite gamer. So they created an extra difficulty level called Legend to provide a challenge to anyone out there.

NCAA '09 had similar complaints by quite a few of the good gamers on the board here (fistofrage, Keyser Sose, stewaat, etc.) where they couldn't make the game hard enough on Heisman. Perhaps with a much improved slider system, they could also create a Legend difficulty level to provide a ridiculous set of challenges for those people.

[Pared]

Re: NCAA Football 09 Postmortem

It's funny how the Show had complaints about the game being too easy last year for the elite gamer. So they created an extra difficulty level called Legend to provide a challenge to anyone out there.

NCAA '09 had similar complaints by quite a few of the good gamers on the board here (fistofrage, Keyser Sose, stewaat, etc.) where they couldn't make the game hard enough on Heisman. Perhaps with a much improved slider system, they could also create a Legend difficulty level to provide a ridiculous set of challenges for those people.

I hate being negative but this series has always shown a "harder" difficulty usually results in MORE unrealistic play by the CPU.

[bangpow]

It's funny how the Show had complaints about the game being too easy last year for the elite gamer. So they created an extra difficulty level called Legend to provide a challenge to anyone out there.

NCAA '09 had similar complaints by quite a few of the good gamers on the board here (fistofrage, Keyser Sose, stewaat, etc.) where they couldn't make the game hard enough on Heisman. Perhaps with a much improved slider system, they could also create a Legend difficulty level to provide a ridiculous set of challenges for those people.

There's a difference between a game being hard and a game being unrealistically hard.

It would also be one thing to win games based on good playcalling and a sound gameplan and another to score at will due to bad pursuit angles and brain dead AI.

Everybody has their opinions of the game, but when you look at this article objectively with a knowledge of the game they are talking about, there's no way it gets an A. If the gameplay was even in the range of an A or even a B, there wouldn't be such polarizing opinions to debate that.

[rudyjuly2]

Re: NCAA Football 09 Postmortem

I hate being negative but this series has always shown a "harder" difficulty usually results in MORE unrealistic play by the CPU.

True but I think some of those guys would have accepted more cheapness to provide a greater challenge. We'd all like the cpu to play smarter and more like humans but that appears to be a long way away. EA is taking some good steps with the DNA in NBA Live and 2K had a great idea with the VIP system. In NCAA, the EA team doesn't even seem to get the run/pass ratios correct with some teams.

I think a lot of problems would be fixed with better playbooks. Too many plays don't work well so as humans we avoid them. The cpu uses everything. If the cpu just called the bread and butter plays we used they would be a lot better. Heck, maybe the NCAA team should have DNA playbooks where they track the success rate of each play and stop using them over time if they suck. They could just monitor plays used online to see which plays people like. Every week they could release an update where the cpu would recognize what plays work well and what doesn't and incorporate that into their gameplan. They could also update team tendencies of run vs. pass.

Bangpow, I would still give the gameplay a B on this game even though I know you hate it. I had a lot of fun despite some problems and still logged around 100 dynasty games if not more. I'll probably still play some down the road but with NBA Live and the Show coming out, it probably won't get much play time anymore.

[fistofrage]

Re: NCAA Football 09 Postmortem

I hate being negative but this series has always shown a "harder" difficulty usually results in MORE unrealistic play by the CPU.

Unrealistic in what regards? Breaking tackles? Robo QB? I can deal with some of these problems as long as the aggregate of the stats fall in line. I don't mind seeing Judo moves and broken tackles against a B- defense, but when ratings don't matter and they do crazy studff all day long to good defenses, its a problem.

In our league we had a guy leave after coaching Notre Dame for multiple seasons. Consequently he had his team stacked with elite talent. Well I had to play that team last night but now it was controlled by the AI. My HB has a 99 speed and my receivers average 96.

To make a long story short, My receivers couldn't get behind the secondary, and the AI was bottling up my run game. I finally did eventually bust an 80 yard run off in the 4th quarter with him, but they contained him for the most part 179 yards on 27 carries. I was on the edge of my seat the entire game and won on a 35 yard FG that was iced as time expired. Final score 44-41. Game was 17-10 at the half.

The AI played awesome in that game mostly because the recruiting was done properly and an elite school had elite players at all positions. ND didn't attempt a pass on the 1st drive of the game and rand a 10 play 70 yard drive right down my throat. It was incredible.

Granted our sliders are geared very heavily toward the AI but hey under the right conditions and if speed is taken out of the equation, I can deal with the game. Still won't give it anywhere near an A in gameplay because there are glaring holes, but with some tweaks, even as bad as this engine is, I think it could be respectable.

[RaychelSnr]

Personally, I think the game is/was B material still (if we are assigning letter grades). A lot of people are way too harsh on NCAA and Madden because they want an absolutely perfect football sim. There's nothing wrong with that feeling at all.

Either way, Sliz answered most everything the same way I would have. I know you guys are passionate about seeing the games improve, and I actually knew this article would get the response it has (you guys are mostly predictable ).

The big thing is, there are some people who love this game and some who absolutely hate it and I think someone here said it best...it probably depends on if you played Online Dynasty or not. Either way, I hope the NCAA guys read this thread and see a lot of the main complaints about the game, because I feel the same way.

I'll say it again (like I have several times over), if you were/are willing to look over some obvious flaws with the gameplay, you are/were going to have fun with the game. If you couldn't, then you probably would have discounted the game rather quickly.

[bangpow]

Personally, I think the game is/was B material still (if we are assigning letter grades). A lot of people are way too harsh on NCAA and Madden because they want an absolutely perfect football sim. There's nothing wrong with that feeling at all.

Either way, Sliz answered most everything the same way I would have. I know you guys are passionate about seeing the games improve, and I actually knew this article would get the response it has (you guys are mostly predictable ).

The big thing is, there are some people who love this game and some who absolutely hate it and I think someone here said it best...it probably depends on if you played Online Dynasty or not. Either way, I hope the NCAA guys read this thread and see a lot of the main complaints about the game, because I feel the same way.

I'll say it again (like I have several times over), if you were/are willing to look over some obvious flaws with the gameplay, you are/were going to have fun with the game. If you couldn't, then you probably would have discounted the game rather quickly.

Again, it's one thing to overlook some issues to make the game an enjoyable experience, it's another to overlook gaping holes in the AI.

I'm also not the type that wants a perfect football sim, either. I actually really enjoy Madden's gameplay this year. Granted, it could use some sliders, but I like the game overall. It does need more depth, though, and some bells and whistles because I think the gameplay is good and could probably use a little tweaking.

But NCAA 09 is another animal. It just does not feel like football at all. It's pretty brain dead in the AI department and not an enjoyable experience.

And to add another point to where I don't need a game to be completely sim.....

I actually enjoyed NCAA 08 a whole bunch. I have gone farther in a dynasty than I did in any other version of the game. I had good time with the game, so I bought it again last night and continued my Kentucky dynasty.

I need to find some new sliders, though, as I did just beat a #2 Florida team with my unranked Kentucky squad that includes 3 Freshman on the O-line.....in the Swamp.

I'm just saying that I can overlook things, but 09 was too much of a debacle to enjoy.

[StormJH1]

MMChris had a pretty good analysis of this as a "B" game. The things that are wrong with the gameplay have been so conistently wrong with EA titles for years, that to try to explain it to someone who hasn't tried an alterative approach like 2k5 or APF 2k8 is almost impossible. I'm talking about suction blocks, robo QB, and pre-canned animations during the running game.

If you were able to suspend disbelief with this game, online dynasty and roster sharing were two MAJOR improvements to this franchise, and the reason that this was the first next-gen football title I bought on release date. I've had fun with it almost in spite of the gameplay b/c of those features.

But to me, this franchise will not improve this generation unless they return to some of the core gameplay flaws that remain. #1 among those is the fact that you really don't control a great deal of what goes on. NCAA even lags behind Madden in the fact that you CANNOT reliably control the arc or velocity of your passes, and there's no true throw the ball 10 yards past a streaking receiver and have him run it down. Balls are thrown directly to receivers, and it's pretty much determined the moment the ball is in the air if it's going to be an INT (which becomes a pick-6 probably 80% of the time). That's a problem. So is the fact that there is no real ability to pick running lanes, or fight through contact. Fix those, and I could justify another $60 for 2010.

[bangpow]

MMChris had a pretty good analysis of this as a "B" game. The things that are wrong with the gameplay have been so conistently wrong with EA titles for years, that to try to explain it to someone who hasn't tried an alterative approach like 2k5 or APF 2k8 is almost impossible. I'm talking about suction blocks, robo QB, and pre-canned animations during the running game.

If you were able to suspend disbelief with this game, online dynasty and roster sharing were two MAJOR improvements to this franchise, and the reason that this was the first next-gen football title I bought on release date. I've had fun with it almost in spite of the gameplay b/c of those features.

But to me, this franchise will not improve this generation unless they return to some of the core gameplay flaws that remain. #1 among those is the fact that you really don't control a great deal of what goes on. NCAA even lags behind Madden in the fact that you CANNOT reliably control the arc or velocity of your passes, and there's no true throw the ball 10 yards past a streaking receiver and have him run it down. Balls are thrown directly to receivers, and it's pretty much determined the moment the ball is in the air if it's going to be an INT (which becomes a pick-6 probably 80% of the time). That's a problem. So is the fact that there is no real ability to pick running lanes, or fight through contact. Fix those, and I could justify another $60 for 2010.

I actually thought they did a great job with the ball trajectory in NCAA 08 after they released a patch for it. It was great because I could actually throw a ball behind a LB and in front of a Safety.

In fact, here's a prefect example of it.

http://www.easportsworld.com/en_US/video/165167

[bangpow]

Going back on NCAA 08 for a second, they were actually a few key tweaks away from making that game awesome. I saw no need for "wide open gameplay".

I'll tell what buzz word I'm sick of hearing and that's whether or not a game is "accessible". While Nintendo sells a lot of units because of how they dumb down their games, I'm tired of all these studios using that as a reference point to make their games more "accessible".

That "accessibility" kind of gets in the way from what the community wants, I think. At least in the way that they tried to make NCAA more accessible by dumbing down the AI so we can wing the ball all over the field.

They do a better job of adding football teaching tools in Madden with the backtrack feature and what not. And it helps immerse us in the game even though Madden still needs a lot of work in that regard.

But speaking more on "accessiblity", I feel that EA hasn't taken the hardcore community seriously. Like, the "hardcore" community wants things so hardcore that it will turn off the "casual" fans. I think that also goes back to the not know how to find that balance.

Case in point, I was reading an interview with Ken Levin, who made Bioshock. He embraced the hardcore community, but found a nice balance for more of the fringe fans. Check out this quote...

""You know how there are kids who listen to music, like it, dance it and get into it, but then there's that weird kid in the back of the classroom who'll be writing all the Nirvana lyrics on his notebook," Levine asked. "That's the level of the people who get into the game that you have to support."

That's the crowd for whom the developers threw in a host of wrinkles, obscure clues, and little touches to help flesh out the story. The key, according to Levine, is that all the extra depth for the hardcore fan cannot be allowed to get in the way of the experience for the more casual player who just wants something along the lines of Madden or Halo. "

I guess that sums up what I was trying to say. They need to do a better job of finding that balance.

[rudyjuly2]

Re: NCAA Football 09 Postmortem

Bangpow, the cpu INT problems in NCAA '08 were just too much to bear. I personally felt NCAA '09 was a lot better. The wide open gameplay still didn't feature any deep passes so I don't even think the gameplay was that wide open. For my skill level, the sliders made the game very good and not wide open. My biggest problem was the terrible cpu running game.