NCAA Football 09 Postmortem

[fistofrage]

Re: NCAA Football 09 Postmortem

Bangpow, the cpu INT problems in NCAA '08 were just too much to bear. I personally felt NCAA '09 was a lot better. The wide open gameplay still didn't feature any deep passes so I don't even think the gameplay was that wide open. For my skill level, the sliders made the game very good and not wide open. My biggest problem was the terrible cpu running game.

Rudy, what were your sliders again begin I am not seeing problems(at least stat wise) with the AI running game, except when they elect to use the Cement Shoe Shuffle QB choice play with a slow QB.

[bangpow]

Again, it wasn't perfect, but I feel that I actually have to work for my yards more in NCAA 08. Oh, and it's nice being able to get some sacks and force the opposing QB's into bad throws.

NCAA 08 does have a bit of fumblitis, I will say that as well. I still like it better overall.

[bangpow]

And Wide Open Gameplay is definitely wide open. I threw nothing but deep balls one game to test the AI and it was ridiculous on how many I completed while using North Carolina.

[rudyjuly2]

Re: NCAA Football 09 Postmortem

Rudy, what were your sliders again begin I am not seeing problems(at least stat wise) with the AI running game, except when they elect to use the Cement Shoe Shuffle QB choice play with a slow QB.

On anything less than Heisman I would put human defensive awareness at 0, human break block at 0, cpu run block at 100 and cpu RBA at 70. It was rare to see a 100 yard rusher against me in even matchups or where the cpu was the better team. On Heisman I would use the same settings except I had human def. awareness around 70. I know that probably hurt the running game but I did it to help stop the cpu QB from completing a ton of passes.

If I drop human break block to 0 and increase cpu run block to 100, their OL should be man handling me and they never did on any level. The fact I never saw it on Heisman was dumbfounding this year. The only real way to boost the cpu running attack was boosting the cpu RBA which would allow them to break a long run every once in awhile but I just never saw the methodical rushing attack stuff it down my throat. I've always been able to fix this in the past as the default cpu rushing attack is usually horrible but the weak sliders this year made that virtually impossible. I do play as a LB against the cpu.

[fistofrage]

Re: NCAA Football 09 Postmortem

On anything less than Heisman I would put human defensive awareness at 0, human break block at 0, cpu run block at 100 and cpu RBA at 70. It was rare to see a 100 yard rusher against me in even matchups or where the cpu was the better team. On Heisman I would use the same settings except I had human def. awareness around 70. I know that probably hurt the running game but I did it to help stop the cpu QB from completing a ton of passes.

If I drop human break block to 0 and increase cpu run block to 100, their OL should be man handling me and they never did on any level. The fact I never saw it on Heisman was dumbfounding this year. The only real way to boost the cpu running attack was boosting the cpu RBA which would allow them to break a long run every once in awhile but I just never saw the methodical rushing attack stuff it down my throat. I've always been able to fix this in the past as the default cpu rushing attack is usually horrible but the weak sliders this year made that virtually impossible. I do play as a LB against the cpu.

Yeah, you have to lower that Human awareness. I see the AI with teams like Wisconsin, Colorado State, VT and others put together some solid drives running the ball.

[rhombic21]

Re: NCAA Football 09 Postmortem

People don't realize that NCAA '08 had many of the same underlying problems with gameplay that NCAA '09 did. In particular, the front 4 never got pressure. The only reason people remember that game as a sack-fest is because the blitzes worked a lot better (and there was no slide protect to adjust to them), and because Man coverage flat out cheated to take away certain quick short routes. And that silly 3 man DL crash issue. Essentially, EA fixed those things, but didn't fix the pass rush issues, which led to the offensive explosion this year.

This was NCAA '08 once people figured out how to beat the blitz:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sB2HkY5FQMQ

If you look, you see the same things that plague this year. QBs can still scramble around all game. If you don't blitz, the guy has all day to throw, etc...

[Rocky]

Re: NCAA Football 09 Postmortem

People don't realize that NCAA '08 had many of the same underlying problems with gameplay that NCAA '09 did. In particular, the front 4 never got pressure. The only reason people remember that game as a sack-fest is because the blitzes worked a lot better (and there was no slide protect to adjust to them), and because Man coverage flat out cheated to take away certain quick short routes. And that silly 3 man DL crash issue. Essentially, EA fixed those things, but didn't fix the pass rush issues, which led to the offensive explosion this year.

This was NCAA '08 once people figured out how to beat the blitz:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sB2HkY5FQMQ

If you look, you see the same things that plague this year. QBs can still scramble around all game. If you don't blitz, the guy has all day to throw, etc...

Yes, I remembered being 'Nano-d' to hell last year, but at least if gave you something to think about offensively and gave most people a formidable defense.

A realistic pocket hasn't been delivered to the EA series in 20 years, but I still find it astonishing that the CG folks can do this so much better than the Next Gen. It's just a better engine and a better game.

[bangpow]

People don't realize that NCAA '08 had many of the same underlying problems with gameplay that NCAA '09 did. In particular, the front 4 never got pressure. The only reason people remember that game as a sack-fest is because the blitzes worked a lot better (and there was no slide protect to adjust to them), and because Man coverage flat out cheated to take away certain quick short routes. And that silly 3 man DL crash issue. Essentially, EA fixed those things, but didn't fix the pass rush issues, which led to the offensive explosion this year.

This was NCAA '08 once people figured out how to beat the blitz:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sB2HkY5FQMQ

If you look, you see the same things that plague this year. QBs can still scramble around all game. If you don't blitz, the guy has all day to throw, etc...

I only play the dynasty, so nano's don't matter and I don't use them. I also tried running around with my slow *** QB without much luck.

[rhombic21]

Re: NCAA Football 09 Postmortem

Yes, I remembered being 'Nano-d' to hell last year, but at least if gave you something to think about offensively and gave most people a formidable defense.

Towards the middle to end of the year, almost everybody online had figured out how to beat the nanos from shotgun, and you basically saw the same style of play dominate then as dominates now. Everybody went shotgun and threw the ball 60 times a game, with final scores in the 50s and 60s.

My point is simply that this isn't some new set of issues. The pass rush issue with the front 4 has been a problem on next-gen forever. It was a problem on '07, it was a problem on '08, and it's a problem again this year. The only difference is that this year, they dumbed a bunch of the blitzes down, made the OL ridiculously aware about picking up the blitz, added slide protection, and "fixed" the man coverage issues, where the defense would essentially cheat and run certain short routes (hitches and slants in particular) for the offense.

That's why I cringe when I hear people say "'08 with tweaks would have been really good." '09 IS '08 with a couple tweaks, as far as gameplay is concerned.

[bangpow]

Towards the middle to end of the year, almost everybody online had figured out how to beat the nanos from shotgun, and you basically saw the same style of play dominate then as dominates now. Everybody went shotgun and threw the ball 60 times a game, with final scores in the 50s and 60s.

My point is simply that this isn't some new set of issues. The pass rush issue with the front 4 has been a problem on next-gen forever. It was a problem on '07, it was a problem on '08, and it's a problem again this year. The only difference is that this year, they dumbed a bunch of the blitzes down, made the OL ridiculously aware about picking up the blitz, added slide protection, and "fixed" the man coverage issues, where the defense would essentially cheat and run certain short routes (hitches and slants in particular) for the offense.

That's why I cringe when I hear people say "'08 with tweaks would have been really good." '09 IS '08 with a couple tweaks, as far as gameplay is concerned.

Yeah, but not good tweaks and not the type of tweaks i was thinking of.

[rhombic21]

Re: NCAA Football 09 Postmortem

Yeah, but not good tweaks and not the type of tweaks i was thinking of.

NCAA '08 (and NCAA '09) needed MASSIVE changes to core areas of gameplay. From offensive/defensive line interactions, to QB accuracy, to receiver/DB interactions, to special teams, to basic AI playcalling and strategy. I just don't think tweaking at the margins, no matter what you do, is going to get it done. I mean, if they didn't make the tweaks that they had, everybody would still be complaining about the nanos, the blitzes, and the CPU INT fest (the only reason it doesn't happen as much this year is because the QB isn't under pressure as much, if you could generate pressure on this game like you could last year, you'd have the same INT problems).

NCAA '08 basically had all the AI problems that '09 does, PLUS the ridiculous option issues, the 3 man line issues, and the inability to pick up blitzes effectively from under center.

[dkrause1971]

Re: NCAA Football 09 Postmortem

That's why I cringe when I hear people say "'08 with tweaks would have been really good." '09 IS '08 with a couple tweaks, as far as gameplay is concerned.

What scare me is how many posts focus on just presentation type items for 2010. How many times do you read people wanting FCS teams, end zone art, etc, etc instead of a consensus of people complaining about the pocket, QB Acc,etc. Seriously, if your a dev reading those threads you could easily think- we'll add junk like end zone art is easier than reprogramming the gameplay, lets do that this year. I am amazed how many list that stuff as their #1 desire.

I am with you that the game needs more than tweaks

[bangpow]

NCAA '08 (and NCAA '09) needed MASSIVE changes to core areas of gameplay. From offensive/defensive line interactions, to QB accuracy, to receiver/DB interactions, to special teams, to basic AI playcalling and strategy. I just don't think tweaking at the margins, no matter what you do, is going to get it done. I mean, if they didn't make the tweaks that they had, everybody would still be complaining about the nanos, the blitzes, and the CPU INT fest (the only reason it doesn't happen as much this year is because the QB isn't under pressure as much, if you could generate pressure on this game like you could last year, you'd have the same INT problems).

NCAA '08 basically had all the AI problems that '09 does, PLUS the ridiculous option issues, the 3 man line issues, and the inability to pick up blitzes effectively from under center.

Again, all issues when playing a person. I only play dynasty mode.

[rhombic21]

Re: NCAA Football 09 Postmortem

Again, all issues when playing a person. I only play dynasty mode.

And in dynasty mode, you need MASSIVE changes to the AI. Both in terms of it's ability to adapt via playcalling/strategy and in it's ability to manage it's own roster/recruit. As I've discussed before, the fundamental problem with this game is that many of the underlying gameplay issues render head to head play problematic, while the limited AI makes offline play against the computer uninteresting. I ran a dynasty on NCAA '08 on Heisman mode with Alabama, and put up absurd offensive statistics. The computer never adjusts to what you're doing. It has no capability to understand why you keep passing/running with ease, and to make the necessary strategy adjustments, the same way that a human opponent would. It has no ability to understand why I'm shutting it down on defense, and how to adjust. It has no capability to understand that certain plays never work, have never worked, and will never work, and to avoid them rather than call them 5 times a game. Basically the only thing that the computer can do to make the game interesting is to cheat.

[bangpow]

it still plays better than 09, rhombic.