Isomotion just isn't cutting it for me

[Hassan Darkside]

I've kinda been on the fence about isomotion for the last few years. It of course is different from what those other basketball games do and pulling off the moves seems more rewarding. But, in a nutshell, it is:

Complicated - The fact that it's mapped to the same analog stick we move with is aggravating enough. This makes pulling off moves without moving almost impossible. That and the fact that it's tied into quick jerks of the analog make even the most subtle movement throw off the entire move.

Unresponsive - This is also due to the fact that it's mapped on the left analog stick. Sometimes I find myself spinning in circles trying to pull off moves. It's twice as difficult online with a little bit of lag.

Useless - In small areas. Also due to the fact that it's camera relative it makes pulling off moves in the corners or on the baseline really difficult. It is completely useless stationary. Bursts out of the triple threat are 5x better than a crossover. In fact, the best that we can come out with is...

Size up/Breakdown - I still consider this useless. It's a canned animation from tapping the triggers and you can either drive or pull up out of it, but it's useless because it doesn't really do anything to the defense. You don't have any control over what you're doing, only on what you can do afterwards.

One of the problems is defensive footplanting as Pared has brought up many times. I'm not sure how it could be used in one-on-one defense without making you feel like you're trapped in animations, but you should still pay the price for jerking the analog stick on defense.

The biggest issue for me is basically taking guys off the dribble with a series of moves. If I want to go with a between the legs+hesitation+step back I should be able to pull that off.

Now I'm not sure what to propose since we have the shotstick and I love the shotstick and have it not be a carbon copy of quickstrike ankle breakers.

[jewelz1132]

Re: Isomotion just isn't cutting it for me

I dont see it as complicated but every other issues I agree with 100%..Isomotion is just another exploit for users to use against users and cpu to use against users..

[Stumbleweed]

Re: Isomotion just isn't cutting it for me

Yep, they needlessly complicated the isomotion system from 2K8 by reverting to the inferior twin-trigger arrangement that was in 2K7, leading to more complicated commands. The worst par tis that they didn't actually add functionality -- the moves are the same as they were in 2K7, they're just not as easy to pull off, which is a good and bad thing as far as realism goes (you shouldn't always be able to pull off a behind-the-back dribble cleanly in traffic, for example).

However, the realism argument comes up empty here because the behind-the-back, spin, and the other complicated moves seem to be the easiest to actually trigger (far easier than the standard crossover anyway), and also seem to be the most effective moves in breaking down the defense, which is why they're the cheeser moves of choice online. In reality, these moves don't happen very often IRL, and it's normally players with high handles and perimeter skills who can pull them off with any regularity, espeically in traffic or under pressure. In 2K9 I can go spin-spin-spin with nearly any guard and not run into any issues.

The problem is primarily that all of the moves now carry forward momentum, even if you execute them from a standing dribble. Combine that with the already loosey-goosey player movement and you have a players that handle like shopping carts missing a wheel. You can't change ballhands on-command and you can't make them NOT switch hands constantly as you're walking around (thus making the ballhand-dependent isomotion system very unpredictible and hard to trigger properly, leading to stupid-looking instances of players spinning in circles, warping the other direction, etc.). You can't do a standing crossover on-command either, and that takes away the "rock to sleep" part of the game where you cross back and forth standing still and then explode or take the jumper if they're defending the drive; a key part of the 2K8 attack for me and many other sim players.

A basic crossover SHOULD NOT contain forward momentum unless the player is already running. That's the main issue with the system and the reason that it's much less responsive than 2K8. Being able to use just the LS to move the ball to the off-hand to start the move you want (ending in the direction/hand that you choose rather than randomly like it is now) is the key to the whole system, and they took that away.

For example, I know that if I start a double-cross with my right hand, the ball will end up in that hand again for the drive -- now in 2K9, you have to 1) hope that the ball stays put as you're stand there dribbling and determining which side you want to attack, 2) be able to do the command quickly enough and without error so that the ball doesn't change hands as you start moving and screw up the whole thing, 3) hope that you'll be able to catch the animation at exactly the right time to chain another move to it, otherwise get ready for some horrible-looking twitching/spinning/warping as your player responds to the half-circle input on LS that went terribly wrong. In 2K8 you could say "I want to go left", move the ball to that hand, and then execute the double-cross -- you'd reliably end up driving left with the ball in your left hand. That's gone the way of the dodo.

No real control at all in this game. And I am fully capable of doing all the commands, and I still have a pretty nice isomotion game despite all these issues... so don't chalk this rant up as me not knowing the system. I've analyzed the damn thing over and over trying to find redeeming qualities compared to 2K8 and I always draw a blank. Absolutely nothing is improved player movement or control-wise in 2K9, and it's by far the biggest reason that I can hardly play it anymore.

[Stumbleweed]

Re: Isomotion just isn't cutting it for me

I'll make a video sometime soon detailing the horrible nature of isomotion this year compared to 2K8. I'll also make one showing how inaccurate and out of control you are while just trying to drbble to a spot on the court in 2K9 compared to Live/NCAA (both of which do a great job with precision of movement, largely due to their footplanting tech).

It's really sad how this game has fallen in those regards, as I thought that 2K8's controls were as tight and crisp as any b-ball game ever made -- Live 08 felt soupy comparatively, but I think the roles are reversed this year... 2k's main advantage was always the controls blending seamlessly with the animations, and that doesn't happen any more, which is why everyone was revolted by all the sliding and stuff in those early videos. Those issues haven't gone away for the final release, we've just become used to seeing it look that bad in exchange for their buttery (yet scripted, drawn-out, computer-determined, unpredictible) animations.

[Pared]

Re: Isomotion just isn't cutting it for me

But you just said the half court game/spacing is the biggest reason why you hardly play it anymore?

Just messing with you.

[Stumbleweed]

Re: Isomotion just isn't cutting it for me

There are a laundry list of reasons why this game is not getting much burn from me anymore. How can you run proper and effective plays when you can't even walk to the spot reliably? The movement is the biggest issue with 2K9, and it leads to issues in practically every other area of the game.

How many times have you had plays cancel themselves because your guy deviated from the path slightly due to some stupid animation making them walk too far? So frustrating.

Here's a discussion that took place before I dropped out of my leagues -- the initial "article" is by a guy who is one of the most sim and best 2K players I know, and I make a large follow-up post. It's basically the "laundry list" that I was referring to (I agree with everything that Cheese said): http://community.2ksports.com/commun...l=28233&t=8560

[RoyalBoyle78]

Re: Isomotion just isn't cutting it for me

I found it Complicated at first too, now I'm loving it, I'm on PS3 so maybe it a bit more responsive on the PS3 who knows.

[Stumbleweed]

Re: Isomotion just isn't cutting it for me

And it's not even that it's prohibitively complicated (the controls are identical to 2K7 and I had isomotion on that game down to a science just like 2K8), it's just that everything is more animation-heavy, and therefore less user-controlled. Even the regular dribbling animations have several variations that make your player move really fast, slower, crab-walk, etc. and it's essentially out of your control, even as you're just trying to walk to a spot on the floor at normal speed using smooth and even LS input. It's nearly impossible to chain two crossovers together smoothly because the animations are so picky, and even if you manage to, you've driven from the 3PT line to the basket just based on the forward momentum that is a part of the basic crossover.

I should start playing 2K8 again I guess.. haha, I was tired of that game too, but that was 11 months after release, not 3..

[spankdatazz22]

Re: Isomotion just isn't cutting it for me

Funny I remember many people in this forum complaining about isomotion in 2K8. Personally I love that isomtion isn't "precise", and that their are subtle nuanced differences to controlling a Steve Nash versus Allen Iverson, LBJ versus Kobe for example. Obviously it'll never be perfect but imo they've done a great job evolving it from what it began as last gen to what it currently is next gen. Looking forward to them continuing to evolve it; would really hate to see them sanitize, sterilize, or any other -ize it

[Stumbleweed]

Re: Isomotion just isn't cutting it for me

People were complaining about doing crossovers by accident while just walking around because you no longer had to use the trigger to do a crossover like you did in 2K7. The thing with that is that it gave you MORE control, people just didn't know what they were doing and got annoyed because they don't handle the LS properly and add unnecessary movement that was causing the crossovers. The other thing that those who complained about 2K8 didn't consider is that the little crosses (for example, when you walk from the left wing to the right wing with your PG) make the game look smoother and eliminated the need for the awkward-looking crab-dribble and whatever other dribble animations they added this year. Instead of walking sideways shuffling your feet like a weirdo, it would just change the ball to the lead hand until you commanded otherwise by walking the opposite direction.

The system was far superior because you could stand still, dribble the ball with whichever hand you told it to, and then start your move based on that ball-hand. This year, you come to a stop and your guy (depending on the 'standing dribble' animation that engages, which is totally random) might stand there rocking the ball back and forth, changing hands every time, with no input whatsoever from you... makes it nearly impossible to control the ball long enough to start the iso commands. You end up having to wait until the animation finishes or settles enough for you to start the move. Planning your moves ahead of time is very tough in this game for that reason.

[Kully]

Re: Isomotion just isn't cutting it for me

There are a laundry list of reasons why this game is not getting much burn from me anymore. How can you run proper and effective plays when you can't even walk to the spot reliably? The movement is the biggest issue with 2K9, and it leads to issues in practically every other area of the game.

Agreed. I've complained about the same thing. It's completely frustrating

[Hassan Darkside]

Re: Isomotion just isn't cutting it for me

I agree. I'm not gonna lie, I was happy when I heard they went back to the 2k7 controls for isomotion because I thought you shouldn't just do moves without holding any triggers or anything and it gave you more control over the entire thing, but the more i think about it the more I'm starting to miss 2k8's controls.

But there's still some things that could be tightened up. Like trying to get your guy to switch dribbling hands was awkward sitting there wiggling the analog until he does.

[nba2k9inch]

Re: Isomotion just isn't cutting it for me

i think what they need to change with isomotion is move it to the right anologue stick, so you can have both the shot stick and the isomotion on the one stick. Now to use the isomotion you should have to hold either the left trigger or left bumper to use isomotion.
once you let go of either the left trigger or bumper then the shot stick becomes in effect. Currently you cant use the shot stick until the isomotio animation has finished
so image running down the court holding the left trigger or bumper and using the right stick to pull off isomotion moves, then once your in a postion to use the shot stick, it's just a matter of letting go of the trigger or bumper. This would help with the movement issue while trying to perform an isomotion.
Or you could swap it around and when you hold the trigger the shot stick comes active. etc.

I think what the real problem is the abuse of isomotion moves, maybee 2k need to put varible on how many iso move you can use on one play. In a real game a player will try an bust a move to beat his opponent, once past he either shoots/dunks/layups etc. or when he beats the first line of defense and then is confronted with a second, he tries to make space for a shot or he looks to pass, by the time it has taken to do this there is not a lot of time left on the clock for a shot, so if the player has used say 2 iso moves and has to pass the ball, buy the time has moved to a spot to recieve the ball again all he will have time for is to get the shot off. So maybee limit each player the use of iso moves 2 times per play or for each touch of the ball. maybee even 2 per half court. This will help limit iso abuse.

[NINJAK2]

Re: Isomotion just isn't cutting it for me

i think what they need to change with isomotion is move it to the right anologue stick, so you can have both the shot stick and the isomotion on the one stick. Now to use the isomotion you should have to hold either the left trigger or left bumper to use isomotion.
once you let go of either the left trigger or bumper then the shot stick becomes in effect. Currently you cant use the shot stick until the isomotio animation has finished
so image running down the court holding the left trigger or bumper and using the right stick to pull off isomotion moves, then once your in a postion to use the shot stick, it's just a matter of letting go of the trigger or bumper. This would help with the movement issue while trying to perform an isomotion.
Or you could swap it around and when you hold the trigger the shot stick comes active. etc.

I like that idea. great 1st post.

[23]

Re: Isomotion just isn't cutting it for me

Thought about that earlier but that essentially takes out the dunks/layups if you just plan on using the trigger for dribble moves.