yeah im wit ya there, but those guys, especially kobe ,were never thought to be anything negative. down here, vick was considered a "thug", cuz of baggy pants, cornrows, etc., before the drama. Many doubted kobe raped that girl (me included), it just didnt feel right. but ive said all along, when he lied to blank and goodell, they couldnt back him like they would have if he had come clean initially. also he didnt think he was doin anything wrong in his mind, thats a way of life up there.