Next Gen Football...where's the "fun"?

[Glenn33]

I spent the past week playing both Madden 2003 and NFL2K5 and I had a revelation as to why I think we have as a community have been so "lackluster" [to say the least] about Madden on the next gen. Quite frankly it's just not "fun". Gang tackles, DB AI, animations, etc. are really important to making an accurate sim football game. But somewhere along the line football games have lost their soul for pretty graphics and 60FPS. To put it more succinctly - Madden is boring. After all - it is a game we are playing As such, here is my list of things from the last gen of sports games that I desperately wish would make it's way back into our beloved Madden Franchise:

injury cutscenes - Injuries on the football field are a big thing and they should be treated as such. I would like to see trainers come out, the players wincing in pain and the announcers commentate on it. Truth be told - I would love it we could go old school and have the emergency vehicle come on the field like it did back in the day with Madden ;D

Play by Play - I won't lie...the announcing team for 2K football is my favorite all time like ever. You know why? Because they actually sound like when they recorded their lines they were in the same room and actually had some chemistry. The problem with these "big" name announcers is that 1) their time is money and very limited and 2) they are not actors..so they sound like they are reading from a piece of paper. Play by play is like officiating - you don't pay attention to it when it's good but when it's bad it sticks out like a sore thumb.


Late hits - I swear - nothing eases the pain of getting waxed royally in the game [by the CPU or your buddy] than a late hit. Yes I know it cost 15 yards..but it sure as heck felt good PLEASE NOTE - YES I know the No Fun League made Madden take this out of their games...but a man can dream can't he?

Chain gang - In 2K5....when you have a play that is close to the marker - the indicators for the down all dissapear off the screen....the refs come out to measure..and for about 7 seconds you have to watch the animation and wait. Those 7 seconds are pure joy as you wait in anticipation. We need the chain gang back..it's just not football without them.


Player Chatter - Players talk trash..alot of it. I want to hear it on the field. The 2K baseball series was really good at this as well as 2K3 (my favorite with regards to trash talking)

Fans - Remember them? The screaming 75,000 or so people in the background? We need to see their reactions to big plays, touchdowns and momentum swings. I wanna see the banners, the naked fat guys, and emotional little kids in the stands. NCAA football (and Madden for the matter) used to have alot of these scenes...bring 'em back please!


Player Reactions - A great example would be NBA 2K series....the players on the bench react realtime to big shots and big plays during the game. In NBA Live 09 and MLB 08 there are several cutscenes with players reactions to plays that happen. Not just the players on the field/on the court...but the bench players reacting as well. Lets see that! In 2K5 after touchdowns you see cutscenes of players high fiving, QB's talking on the phone with the coordinators and players saying "hi Mom!" That stuff is great!

Coach Reactions - If I screw up..or do great for that matter..I wanna have my coach let me know one way or the other. Can we motioncap the Bill Cowher growl or the John Gruden squint?


Touchdown celebrations - I wanna chose them. In 2K5 I could choose what celebration I did [from a list of like 20 different ones]...and I didn't have to go to a certain blue spot on the field to do it either. I can't remember exactly which hockey game it was - but there was one where you could choose your celebration as well. Let me have my own TO/Chad Johnson moment..don't prescript it for me :P

A little over the top - YES...YES - I know it's a football sim. But again - we are playing a game..have a little fun with it. Don't make every animation so stiff and by the numbers. Have a ridiculous over the top tackle every once in a while, a circus catch, or a goofy looking running animation thrown in. My personal favorite was NFL 2K on the Dreamcast where the tackler would literally pick up and body slam the guy with the ball.


Now I know these don't compare to fixing glaring gameplay issues (so spare me the hate post). But the fact is - if the game isn't fun then all that good stuff will get overlooked because people won't want to play this game over the long haul. That's my 2 cents anyways.

[Exonerated]

Re: Next Gen Football...where's the "fun"?

I agree in the most part.

If the game is fun it'll hide all the gameplay defects and such.

madden already has td celebrations, player chatter, coach reactions, player reactions, player interactions.

However, these are very lackluster. There's about 3 of each.

I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to put in player chatter. Trash talking adds to the game heaps.

I remember in madden 08 some linebacker saying 'is that trent green?'. Stupid line, but it was funny coz the qb obviously wasn't trent green.
Heck, Ian can say like 20 different trash talk lines and it'll still be good.

Stuff like 'that's my quarterback' , 'games can end it ties donovan'.

ANd fifa has 30 combo moves for td/goal celebrations. And literrally infinite possiblities of td celebrations. No two celebrations are ever exactly the same.

[rockbottom3]

Re: Next Gen Football...where's the "fun"?

I've said this in a thread of mine and it got locked but here goes one more time. Theres so many things people complain about and/or say need to change its a wonder EA will listen to the general public at all. Heres some hindsight.

1.People complain that Madden sounds stupid announcing and yell "we need a change"..Thanks now we were stuck with the actually worse radio announcer.

2.Everybody then starts to complain that there should be a way to quicken the game up..."theres to many replays and fluff I just want to play" hence presentation was stripped down.

3. "We want more sim" Great for hardcore Maddenites bad for 70% of other players.

3a. sim is great but not everybody has the time to play 12 min quarters. so EA needs to make a game were other people can play and get decent stats in 5 min qtrs.

3b. To make the general stats people check look right other stats take a hit. To make offense look good defensive stats like tackles go down.

4. Sliders. Now apparently we need a slider for everything including how frequently fans get up to use the restroom. Listen I love cutomization of games but for the past 5 years it seems more people are addicted to finding the right slider setting to play franchise with, instead of playing franchise. Nobody wants to give the IQ a chance. Maybe its the end all of sliders.

5. People use to complain that players improved to much in player progression after a great season leading to a bunch of 90's on a team. Now Ea curbs it and people are pissed that they don't progress that much.

6. People complain about ratings given to players. You might not agree brady has a 99 throwing power but how else do you make a great qb feel great in a game? You have to suspend some things to understand he might not have a greatest arm of all time but he needs to be rated high so when you play him he can decimate you.

7. passing cone sucks! now its gone and people are whining about it not being in there.

Now don't get me wrong theres still things that need fixing and I do believe competition from another developer would push the envelope making games better. Lets not forget 2k5 had its share of problems like qb spy, teams trading star players, unstoppable running backs and glitches like subtracting yards from a ball carrier b/c of a penalty. All pro football didn't even have a franchise! Its not that its bad it just doesn't feel right, and why..B/C we wanted more sim and less arcade action. Its a game folks meant to emulate football as best it can and should be fun. Which unfortunately seems to be the hard part with next gen football where is the fun?

[doute]

Re: Next Gen Football...where's the "fun"?

I don't agree with the majority of the changes you wish to make (OP). I don't mean to be rude, but i don't like waiting seven seconds for the chain to come out and measure the first down. that frustrates me. fan reactions do not look realistic, and quite frankly i don't like them. Player and coaches reactions as well.

Cut scenes ruin sporting games for me.

I would enjoy crowd noise being more intuitive. Since i was little i loved to pump the crowd noise so i could try and get lost in the game just like a real NFL game. I wish the noise would fluxuate more dramatically as important plays were made (more so then they are now) I want the place to erupt when you win the conference championship.

[RGiles36]

Re: Next Gen Football...where's the "fun"?

A little over the top - YES...YES - I know it's a football sim. But again - we are playing a game..have a little fun with it. Don't make every animation so stiff and by the numbers. Have a ridiculous over the top tackle every once in a while, a circus catch, or a goofy looking running animation thrown in. My personal favorite was NFL 2K on the Dreamcast where the tackler would literally pick up and body slam the guy with the ball.

Doesn't Madden have enough of this?

[Glenn33]

Re: Next Gen Football...where's the "fun"?

For the record - my problem is not with Madden in general - it's with next gen football. All this stuff I mentioned was/still is in some degree the current gen version of football. I just want some - if not all of it in next gen football. Next Gen football is just not fun to me right now.

PS - Doute...give cutscenes a chance my friend. The break the monotony of the game and add personality (see MLB: The Show)

[thudias]

Re: Next Gen Football...where's the "fun"?

For the record - my problem is not with Madden in general - it's with next gen football. All this stuff I mentioned was/still is in some degree the current gen version of football. I just want some - if not all of it in next gen football. Next Gen football is just not fun to me right now.

PS - Doute...give cutscenes a chance my friend. The break the monotony of the game and add personality (see MLB: The Show)

Don't you think cut scenes were given a chance?

[Glenn33]

Re: Next Gen Football...where's the "fun"?

Don't you think cut scenes were given a chance?

I don't think it's been done correctly on Next gen football. Play MLB: The show - you will see it adds to the experience rather than detract from it.

[dat swag]

Re: Next Gen Football...where's the "fun"?

At this stage we shouldn't even see cut scenes anymore...All of the pre and post play animations should be contextual and within the NATURAL framework of the game...Not a detached cut scene...Cut scenes IMO are not what next gen should be about nor should they have a place in next gen...Just allow the game to flow and implement different and varying camera angles that capture the drama and other specifics of a NFL game.

[RGiles36]

Re: Next Gen Football...where's the "fun"?

At this stage we shouldn't even see cut scenes anymore...All of the pre and post play animations should be contextual and within the NATURAL framework of the game...Not a detached cut scene...Cut scenes IMO are not what next gen should be about nor should they have a place in next gen...Just allow the game to flow and implement different and varying camera angles that capture the drama and other specifics of a NFL game.

Yeah, but not everyone wants to see cutscenes. To me, it doesn't matter if it's a cutscene or natural framework of the game as long as I get the same effect.

[doute]

Re: Next Gen Football...where's the "fun"?

At this stage we shouldn't even see cut scenes anymore...All of the pre and post play animations should be contextual and within the NATURAL framework of the game...Not a detached cut scene...Cut scenes IMO are not what next gen should be about nor should they have a place in next gen...Just allow the game to flow and implement different and varying camera angles that capture the drama and other specifics of a NFL game.

amen.

glenn- can yo usupply some youtube videos of the mlb the show cut scenes? i have xbox, so playing the show won't be happening

[TheWatcher]

Re: Next Gen Football...where's the "fun"?

Doesn't Madden have enough of this?

Sure does and it makes the game unrealistic. If anything, we need less.

[thudias]

Re: Next Gen Football...where's the "fun"?

I Agree with rgiles 36

[Glenn33]

Re: Next Gen Football...where's the "fun"?

At this stage we shouldn't even see cut scenes anymore...All of the pre and post play animations should be contextual and within the NATURAL framework of the game...Not a detached cut scene...Cut scenes IMO are not what next gen should be about nor should they have a place in next gen...Just allow the game to flow and implement different and varying camera angles that capture the drama and other specifics of a NFL game.

I agree. I'll take whatever I can get that breaks away from play ends - choose new play - players line up again. I say cutscenes because that's what I'm used too...I just want to see more "stuff" away from the action that draws me in to the emotion of the game.

[TheWatcher]

Re: Next Gen Football...where's the "fun"?

I said something once like what DatSwag said. But then at the same time, I realize that there are certain things that can't be quickly pulled off live-action that a cutscene can pull off ready-on-cue.

But the whole problem that brought us to this point, is that the Madden Team had the right idea with the cutscenes they just didn't pour enough creativity into them to give them variety and spontaneity like they needed.

The other thing is that, I think EA put far too much value on appeasing a few impatient people who can't just click 'A' to skip them, lol. And to do what they THOUGHT was remedying the situation, they just removed them... which remedied nothing, it just made the already thin presentation even worse.

What they should have done was work on giving users the ability to turn cutscenes on or off, and perhaps have a frequency setting. It's really a no-brainer. Secondly, as stated, they needed to be creative and add more scenes. Those two things are what the answer was and it would've worked perfectly. Cutting them out was a perplexingly bad idea.

Same thing with the frame rate. Aside from videophile junkies like you find on message boards, no one gives a crap about 30 frames or 60 frames and most people don't even perceive it like we would here. They made the decision to move to 60 and the graphics certainly fell in a lot of very noticeable ways, 08 was the better example as that game looked awful. But my point to that is, you don't make an upgrade to something (Frames) that's going to be inconsequential to the majority when you know it's going to negatively affect an important part that the majority (not OS'ers) cares about (graphics). It was one of those moves where you just wish you were in the room at the time and you could just stare at them in disbelief until they rethink it...

... Their decision-making just hasn't had good balance. There's just been a lot of cutting-off-their-nose-to-spite-their face decisions.