Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Ratings - A New Philosophy, A New Era

[rickywal]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Ratings - A New Philosophy, A New Era

What they could do is have a potential rating but if you have a James Harrison season then your Potential goes up with your overall.

Potential is an iffy rating though. Like Peyton Manning was expected to be good. Not as good as he is now but good. Now a guy like Joe Montana would have a "meh" potential rating but as we can see he is arguably the greatest QB to ever live.

Maybe that is just part and parcel of progression. A player in one year can only increase by X but the next year it starts again. But depending on the overall rating is how much a player can go up max in a season.

0-70 ratings can go up max 15 based on a great season
70-75 max 10
80-90 max 5
90-95 max 2
95-99 max 1

Obviously throw together numbers, but you get the idea.

The question is do you make the game reflect the year to year in madden with the fluctuating ratings with each release, or do you make it based on consistency and players will only achieve the high ratings if they produce season after season.

Would James Harrison be able to fly up to a 90+ rating in one season or would he need several seasons of great performances to get there?

I'd also like to see ratings drop. At the moment you can pretty much have a receiver get 1000+ yards in a season and go up, but the following season get 300 yards and stay the same. Maybe progression is based on overall and expectations. A 92 overall WR should get 700-1000 yards and 8 TDs say, if they under achieve this they drop depending how much they missed by, but will go up depending on how much they surpassed these numbers. If they stayed equal then no progression. Though any young player should gain a slight increase based on gaining experience.

This is probably all pretty off topic though... but its tied very much to player ratings.

[kcarr]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Ratings - A New Philosophy, A New Era

While I realize there is the need for numerical ratings to control the gameplay but I am in a sense with the guys saying that they would like to go away from the number system.

I think numbers should be there but hidden other than maybe during player creation. The icons or weapons or whatever would be shown for the player once they reach certain ratings levels. This would allow players to develop these abilities in a sensible manner. I also think it might be a good idea to make the numbers a range sorta like in the original head coach but that is another topic.

This could add a lot to franchise, especially trading, drafting, and free agent signing where you don't know exactly how good the player is.

[edubbs]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Ratings - A New Philosophy, A New Era

It will be interesting to see how these ratings effect the QB's.

I want to see the lower accuracy QB's throw errant (non intercepted) passes ie; gutter balls, passes waaaay out of reach, passes behind receivers, over their head etc.

Bad passes that result in incompletions have NEVER been in Madden like they should.

Hopefully, this year you guys added a TON of new incomplete pass animations because, they are waaaaay overdue.

[Asp86]

Re: Madden NFL 10 blog 2: Ratings philosophy by Donny Moore

I love the thought of now being able to rip off a big run for a TD with a guy that isn't 90+ speed. Makes almost everyback lethal to a certain degree.

The only thing with that is. Someone with an 80 rating for speed should still be able to be caught down-field by fast corners, safety's or linebackers. Hopefully it's not unrealistic to the point where a every player fast or slow is impossible to catch down-field.

[Asp86]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Ratings - A New Philosophy, A New Era

Maybe that is just part and parcel of progression. A player in one year can only increase by X but the next year it starts again. But depending on the overall rating is how much a player can go up max in a season.

0-70 ratings can go up max 15 based on a great season
70-75 max 10
80-90 max 5
90-95 max 2
95-99 max 1

Obviously throw together numbers, but you get the idea.

The question is do you make the game reflect the year to year in madden with the fluctuating ratings with each release, or do you make it based on consistency and players will only achieve the high ratings if they produce season after season.

Would James Harrison be able to fly up to a 90+ rating in one season or would he need several seasons of great performances to get there?

I'd also like to see ratings drop. At the moment you can pretty much have a receiver get 1000+ yards in a season and go up, but the following season get 300 yards and stay the same. Maybe progression is based on overall and expectations. A 92 overall WR should get 700-1000 yards and 8 TDs say, if they under achieve this they drop depending how much they missed by, but will go up depending on how much they surpassed these numbers. If they stayed equal then no progression. Though any young player should gain a slight increase based on gaining experience.

This is probably all pretty off topic though... but its tied very much to player ratings.

When players hit the age of 30ish, stamina ratings should start dropping of by 2's or 3's.

[LAKE4742]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Ratings - A New Philosophy, A New Era

I think they are saying you better not let them behind you cause you'll get burnt! As it was you could virtually play every team the same. Now you'll have to chose plays carefully to clog up the middle so the powerback can't tear through you, or play your LBs a little wider for the speedy guys so they don't just run around you.

The way I see it, this change means players will do what they do better and the things they aren't so good at... well they actually won't be so good at!

This is what's missing in nearly every sports game. A "real" sense of individual strengths and weaknessess.

Great questions guys.

I'll defer to Donny on how he envisions us making sure that speed doesn't turn into the "all powerful" rating.

Good stuff, Ian. Yes, it would be great for certain players to accurately possess great speed (without other players seemingly underservingly being nearly as good, when on the field). But, just as long as the speed rating doesn't enhance other abilities unfairly. Make every rating accountable for the players' actions, and skill level.
Keep up the good work!

[fourthreemafia]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Ratings - A New Philosophy, A New Era

I dont post here much, but let me just say this is one of the best things Ive heard in awhile for Madden. I have been suggesting making more use of the lower ratings for quite awhile now, and I am glad to see it come to fruition.

STILL, it has to be done right, so I will reserve judgment for now, and if progression isnt fixed, it really means nothing.

I have been on of EA's/Madden's biggest naysayers for the past few years, but this IMO is a HUGE step in the right direction.

I really hope this is the first of many great changes to come, and I hope you guys do it right.

For the first time in years, I am starting to get excited about Madden.

[rudyVike]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Ratings - A New Philosophy, A New Era

No doubt there's more feedback here and information than what can be taken in but it's really a privilege to see those ideas in action put in writing!

This may already be implemented but it'd be fun to see the element of realism and player value be governed by some set of situational "Consistency Multipliers". The more consistently a player plays to their ratings through a variety of circumstances, the more valuable they are. Maybe this is getting off topic of ratings though. But for example, Ernest Graham may be able to run away from everybody on a particular play, but he's not likely to do that game after game. Because of his higher speed/acc ratings, Adrian Peterson on the other hand is more likely to do that in more games. Yet some games AP can be bottled up because he's not reading the holes right. Youth and inexperience at work, offsetting great talent.

So for sake of example, say Graham is less likely to have less drastic ups and downs than AP so his consistency multiplier for certain ratings would be higher than AP's until AP has more experience. Don't know if that concept is very clear at all but thought i'd toss it out.

[Flo]

I pm'd Ian with this and posted it in two other threads and have yet to get an answer. I will have to assume they are not answering because we PS3 owners are going to get screwed again and they don't want to tell us yet. However, I will ask again: Will the PS3 version be 1080p this year or will we get the lesser version for the 4th straight year? If you guys can't program for the PS3, maybe you should just drop that platform like you did the PC version.

Flo

[cowboysfan440]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Ratings - A New Philosophy, A New Era

I still like APF2K8 ratings better - so simple and makes it easy to scout your opponent or build a team to the style you want. Tuning gameplay would also be easier that way rather than constantly fiddling with tons of numerical ratings.

i like their player abilities idea i think that was really kool
and is actually useful unlike madden's weapons system but going to the whole star rating idea isnt going to work imo theres just not as much variety but it like this i think AP is faster than brian westrbook when it comes to pure speed but i also believe in apf's rating sytem they both would deserve a speed "ability" and abviously they'd both be gold stars so they would end up being the same speed while that really shouldnt be the case

truth is no matter what system there is it will be bashed and disliked because none of them are perfect but for madden i think the numerical system is best
one last thing
i believe the reason apf had to come up with the whole star rating idea is can u imagine the backlash they would get from ppl about their team's legends seriously i mean we yell and rant about ratings about guys who dont even really matter now imagine how much crap they would get for giving one legend from one era a better rating than one from another
its just to hard to judge those guys cause the times were different
the more recent guys were deffinetly bigger and faster so they had to kinda level the playing field one last thing its a legends game just think of the amount of 99's there be lol

that ended up being alot longer than i expected sorry about the grammer its late and im tired lol

[xxjgbxx]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Ratings - A New Philosophy, A New Era

This has to be done right, if not you will be playing madden 10 with ncaa 09 type gameplay where speed kills

[Cryolemon]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Ratings - A New Philosophy, A New Era

i like their player abilities idea i think that was really kool
and is actually useful unlike madden's weapons system but going to the whole star rating idea isnt going to work imo theres just not as much variety but it like this i think AP is faster than brian westrbook when it comes to pure speed but i also believe in apf's rating sytem they both would deserve a speed "ability" and abviously they'd both be gold stars so they would end up being the same speed while that really shouldnt be the case

Even players with speed burner in APF are slightly different speeds.

[ProjectRipCity]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Ratings - A New Philosophy, A New Era

Adjusted player ratings huh? How bout fixing glide catches and the actual physics of the game? For example a 5'4 150lb guy should not be able to tackle a 6'6 350 reguardless of skill in tackling. Unless in someway he tripped him..lol.

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Pay attention to this.

Im not buying and I wont let any of my closer friends buy until the intelligent gamers on this forum say this is a quality game. Sick of all the eye candy gimmicks

[JMD]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Ratings - A New Philosophy, A New Era

Hey guys, we thought it would be a perfect time to share something that I am personally very excited about for Madden NFL 10. We took each and every rating in the game (over 50+ player ratings) and scaled them up/down in a way that is now using much more of the scale. I like to describe it around the office like this…”We basically stretched out the ratings.” We want to use more of the numbers so we get a bigger, more noticeable affect in the game.

Let me give you guys an example….in Madden NFL 09 all of the WR’s Route Running ratings ranged from 62-99. In the current Madden NFL 10 build, WR’s now check in from 35-99. To counter this on the defensive side, all CB’s in Madden NFL 09 had a Man Coverage rating which ranged from 64-99. Now in Madden NFL 10, CB’s Man Coverage range is currently 40-99.

Every position and every rating has been re-scaled to expand the range of numbers we are dealing with. The Overall Rating for your average NFL player has dropped. Your Joe Average linebacker who was 80 OVR is now dropped down to 70. The players who were before right on the cusp of 90 in a rating category are now down around 85-88…Meaning, there are fewer superstar players out there. Before, where you could maybe get by throwing to your slot WR who had 93 SPD, with 74 ROUTES, and 77 Catching…now in Madden NFL 10, that guy is going to have like 91 SPD, 60-65 ROUTES and anywhere from 65-70 Catching. Let me tell you, these rating drops make a big difference when that slot rookie WR with 90+ speed now drops every 3rd pass or so, or just simply cannot get open.
The superstars have not been affected however, this is intentional. Peyton is still 99 OVR, Patrick Willis a 99, Larry Fitz is 99, etc. The elite players at rating categories have not been affected either (JaMarcus Russell still has a 98 Throw Power and Chris Johnson still rated 99 Speed). [Side note: One of my personal goals is to have the actual NFL players in Madden NFL 10 look like their real-life counterparts and play to their strengths and weaknesses like never before in a football video game.]

Speaking of the Speed, which is always a hot topic, we made some major changes with the infamous SPD rating as well. To give you a great example, I will again go back to WR and CB. In Madden NFL 09, the WR SPD range was 85-100…CB was 87-99.

In Madden NFL 10, WR SPD range is currently 70-100…CB is currently 75-99. So as you may or may not tell, the SPD range has been pushed down, in our opinions, to better reflect the “sim-gameplay” style that Ian and Phil have been telling you about all winter long. This SPD change has been updated for each position, so it makes a huge game play affect.

Ian and I had a game the other day where Earnest Graham broke one up the middle for a 55 yard touchdown run… and he could not be caught!…E-Grahams’ Madden NFL 10 current SPD rating….80 SPD. That should give you a good sense of what is possible with the new ratings. It’s not all about having the 90+ SPD anymore. On this particular run, Ian’s CB’s got hung up against some blockers and all I had to do was beat one safety and Graham was gone! He had Brandon Jacobs and his 85 SPD breaking some long runs as well. On the flip side of bigger/slower backs, Chris Johnson is absolutely lethal right now. You can actually get him outside with sweeps now and he is a beast to stop. But again, we are constantly tuning the gameplay, we have an entire team dedicated to that and they are some of the best people we have in the building.

So there you have it, player ratings are in for a major overhaul this year and I am really excited already with the impact they are having on the early builds of the game. And rest assured, we are well aware of the outside impacts this will have….Rookies will now come into the league based on the new ranges, NCAA Import guys are being tuned as well…Progression has been accounted for as well to better reflect breakout stars and burned-out former stars. Meaning, we want to have bigger jumps in OVR this year, both positive and negative. That’s all for now, probably gave away too much already!

Would love to hear any feedback about this big new change in the way we do player ratings. I’d be happy to answer any questions regarding the new rating ranges….please no individual ratings questions, not answering those! Stay tuned for more Madden player rating related blogs in the future!


- Donny Moore – Madden NFL 10 Designer

This sounds great, but I have a question. Once you guys are done tweaking the game and testing it is there any chance a few people from the forums can get some hands on time with the game before it goes gold? There are a few guys here like LBzrule, to name one, who have great football knowledge and I think it would be great for guys like him to get to play this game before everything is set in stone.

Grab a handfull of these guys and put them in a room for a full day and let them have at it. I think they could give fresh insite to the game and what if anything needs to be tweaked before it's is completed. Don't take this the wrong way, I have full confidence in the EA team, I just think some fresh minds that have not been working on the game for months can provide a different point of view.

I'm already sold, my copy of Madden 10 is pre ordered and paid in full.

Just a thought.

[adembroski]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Ratings - A New Philosophy, A New Era

Absoulutely! Hide them, something, but I hated scrolling through unecessary ratings. And if they do include these irrelevent ratings in the overall formula, they should remove them.

I think I'd prefer absolute ratings that stuck with a player from team to team so I could determine his value on a particular team and in different schemes.

What exactly governs the ratings? Would that undersized LB have higher ratings on all Cover 2 teams? Will he hold his value if his current team changes their defensive philosophy? Does he maintain that higher value when I run man defenses with that Cover 2 team? Are all of his ratings boosted on teams that value him more? Does he cover better, have more speed, ect?

I never played HC if you can't tell.

The way it works in HC coach is a bit different from Madden.

The players have the same set-in-stone numbers as Madden when it comes down too it, but rather than sifting through all that, you are giving numbers in several over-arching categories as it relates to your team's philosophy. I've seen players go from 70 overall to 90 overall just by changing your team philosophy.

The way this works is it takes the numbers and plugs them into a weighting system based what you are looking for. For example, if you like to platoon runningbacks, a back wont get as much credit for having a high stamina rating. If you like power backs, speed backs will be heavily under rated.

The players specific numbers... speed, agility, awareness, catch, tackle, etc... don't change. Just the way the numbers fit into the overall and the categorical ratings (this is things like Physical, Mental, Intangibles, and Potential).

If you decide you prefer scrambling quarterbacks, Donovan McNabb is going to be higher rated than, say, Ben Roethlisburger. On the other hand, if you like big pocket passers, Big Ben will be the higher rated.

The nice thing about this system is the way it affects computer logic. The computer's moves are governed by a team roadmap system that tracks pretty much every player in the league and tells the computer what their best option at that position is. You can use it as the player as well. You go into QBs, for example, and it'll list all available QBs in order of their overall rating according to your philosophy, and how they are available (ie. upcoming draft, already on team, free agent, or on trading block).

So if you've got a fairly average pocket passer starting, but there's a better one available, that one will be listed ahead of who you have there.

It's a really robust and very well thought out system... and it was designed by the same guys who are working franchise mode this year, so you can understand we Head Coach fans' excitement at their assignment to that post.

As far as I'm concerned, if ALL they do is bring over Team Roadmaps, I'll be happy with franchise for the time being. It alone made the computers free agency and draft logic infinitely better than what we've seen out of Madden.