Madden NFL 10 Blog - Improvements to QB Position

[Lakers 24 7]

Re: New Madden NFL 10 blog post - QB improvements

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debbie_Downer

Well you can look at it that way and disregard my concerns, or you can see it as constructive criticism and further opportunity to ensure that Madden is the game that everyone wants and hopes it to be.

With that link I'm guessing that the latter won't be the route taken. Look, I'm not here to insult, you have one of the coolest jobs that there is, and I understand a very tough one as well. Part of it that makes it tough is taking the good feedback with the bad. It doesn't matter what business you're in, when building/developing anything you always have to listen to both sides.

What I posted is simply the reality of the situation. If Madden ever wants to win over simulation football fans then a lot of changes need to be made. Throwing the ball when directed to do so is only a basic step in that overall direction.

[rudyjuly2]

Re: New Madden NFL 10 blog post - QB improvements

What I posted is simply the reality of the situation. If Madden ever wants to win over simulation football fans then a lot of changes need to be made. Throwing the ball when directed to do so is only a basic step in that overall direction.

But it IS a step in the right direction. Ian's response to you, which I agreed with, had to do with your overall negativity to what was a fantastic announcement. This thread was to talk about what he wrote which was great. It's not an excuse to just bash the Madden series some more. That's been done a million times over. What's the point of being negative at this point? Every time Ian writes a new blog do you plan on saying, "That's great but Madden still sucks and I don't believe it will be any good?"

[Lakers 24 7]

Re: New Madden NFL 10 blog post - QB improvements

Spoken like a true Kobe fan... ignorance . That was a pure gameplay enhancement.

It is a gameplay enhancement. But, moreso than if player momentum/movements was finally replicated right? WRs running more realistic routes.. Proper gap assignments and flow to the ball. Different DT techniques, 3 tech, etc. Guys like Casey Hampton demanding double teams from the o-line.. Some 'signature style' from key players.. Better playbooks. etc etc.

[Lakers 24 7]

Re: New Madden NFL 10 blog post - QB improvements

But it IS a step in the right direction. Ian's response to you, which I agreed with, had to do with your overall negativity to what was a fantastic announcement. This thread was to talk about what he wrote which was great. It's not an excuse to just bash the Madden series some more. That's been done a million times over. What's the point of being negative at this point? Every time Ian writes a new blog do you plan on saying, "That's great but Madden still sucks and I don't believe it will be any good?"

Ok, no longer then will I derail this thread with my opinions. But, I never said Madden sucks, and yes I do want the devs to hear what sim football fans think/feel. If I don't express concerns how will they ever know to address them?

[youALREADYknow]

Re: New Madden NFL 10 blog post - QB improvements

It is a gameplay enhancement. But, moreso than if player momentum/movements was finally replicated right? WRs running more realistic routes.. Proper gap assignments and flow to the ball. Different DT techniques, 3 tech, etc. Guys like Casey Hampton demanding double teams from the o-line.. Some 'signature style' from key players.. Better playbooks. etc etc.

So in essence you're stating that only the issues that YOU consider top priority will be worthy of being released to the public?

I'm sorry, but this was indeed a gameplay enhancement that could have a impact on making this game more true-to-life. The relative importance to the other remaining issues in Madden is irrelevant to this topic.

In addition, the main purpose of this thread is to gain feedback about the feature and possible other uses for the feature. All your response accomplished was stating your personal opinion about the Madden franchise and other unrelated improvements that you consider more important.

In other words, it's all about YOU. Ian's response was civil and justified. Now hopefully this thread can go back to useful feedback that helps the game.

[rudyjuly2]

Re: New Madden NFL 10 blog post - QB improvements

Ok, no longer then will I derail this thread with my opinions. But, I never said Madden sucks, and yes I do want the devs to hear what sim football fans think/feel. If I don't express concerns how will they ever know to address them?

There is a wishlist thread along with many specific threads where you can complain about certain things. Ian also has an Arena here where you can post things you want improved on his chalkboard or his blogs or even a private message. I understand wanting them to improve on things but this isn't a wishlist thread. It was about the discussion of the new QB features which I think are great. Just list the stuff you posted below in the wishlist thread to make sure it gets noted (I'm sure it won't be the first time that stuff is posted though ).

It is a gameplay enhancement. But, moreso than if player momentum/movements was finally replicated right? WRs running more realistic routes.. Proper gap assignments and flow to the ball. Different DT techniques, 3 tech, etc. Guys like Casey Hampton demanding double teams from the o-line.. Some 'signature style' from key players.. Better playbooks. etc etc.

[strong safety]

Re: New Madden NFL 10 blog post - QB improvements

Funny.... This is the best news I've read about madden in a long time, and its not a new "big feature." Its just a great improvement to gameplay.

Keep up the great news and good work!

You nailed my thoughts exactly! I'll say what he said, the best news coming out this year has been about gameplay tweaks, not a bullet point on the back of the box. Keep it up guys!

[REDRZA]

Re: New Madden NFL 10 blog post - QB improvements

The major problem with Madden, and quite honestly has been a problem for years now, is not the animation engine in and of itself, but the way animations are "triggered" in the game and makes the game feel like many things are NOT controlled fully by the USER.

The best way i can describe it is that there seems to be an invisible "bubble" (for lack of a better term) around each player and/or the ball, sideline, etc. When players enter this "invisible bubble", the animation triggers and then plays out. This is why we have inherent problems like suction blocking, rocket catching, defenders "morphing" to the ball etc.

How many times have you seen a LB who is running completely parallel to the LOS, with his hips and shoulders directly facing the sideline, to only get "sucked in" to a blocking OL'men or FB? This happens because the LB entered this "bubble" which then triggered the blocking animation even though it is totally unrealistic and looks terrible.

Same thing with the way WR's "rocket" up for a catch. Whats basically happening there is the user will click onto the WR, and manually cut the route short, which forces the animation engine to "speed up" to catch up to the action on screen which results in the unrealistic "rocket" to the ball.

This problem has been an issue for years and effects all aspects of the game. Hard to explain, but it seems players dont interact directly with each other, its almost like they are individuals who react to this "bubble" which then triggers the appropriate animation given the situation.

Only way i can see this being fixed is to make this "bubble" smaller, closer to or actually ON the players model so that it will look and feel more realistic. Also, another thing that would help is to bring back real TIMING as far as button pressing goes. On both offense and defense. The entire point of a good videogame is hand eye coordination, and good TIMING. When you take these elements away the game feels scripted and takes actual user skill away. I dont see the point od "holding" down the catch button the entire time while a receiver runs his route. You would see more balance if both players are forced to TIME their button presses.

Just some thoughts....

[94niners]

Re: New Madden NFL 10 blog post - QB improvements

I have a question about the accuracy section. Don't know if this was mentioned....

Based on your new algorithm...It seems like there's no way that a ball can be thrown behind the receiver. I think having an inaccurate qb throw right behind a receiver running an out and into the waiting safeties arms would be good too.

I'm no programmer (or artist obviously ) but this is how it should look imo. I understand the smaller the area the less odds of the ball being thrown around that area which is why you went for the new shape. But the same should be done in a smaller fashion for the opposite side.



Just my opinion. Don't know if it's feasible or maybe I'm just misunderstanding your chart.

EXCELLENT work overall though Ian .

You don't really see all that many out routes where the ball is THAT far behind the WR. Usually it's either a step behind or way too far out of bounds or too high.

[MrNFL_FanIQ]

Re: New Madden NFL 10 blog post - QB improvements

Just got one question, hopefully it hasn't been asked yet...

For the Playaction Abilityy, are myy defenders going to be biting on a playaction on 3rd and 20 just because the guy is good at it, or are they going to be smart enough to realize there is no way Peyton is handing the ball off.

I just hope it doesn't turn into a cheese where I'm going to have to control my safety just so a reallyy good PA passer doesn't get him out of position time and time again when IRL we would know better.

I'd love to hear an answer to this too, great question.

Definitely a step in the right direction with these ideas, hopefully they get implimented properly.

[NYyankz225]

Re: New Madden NFL 10 blog post - QB improvements

You don't really see all that many out routes where the ball is THAT far behind the WR. Usually it's either a step behind or way too far out of bounds or too high.

That's why I made it smaller behind the receiver. In my estimation that's about 2 or 3 steps behind the receiver. Maybe it's too much but as it's shown now there's now way to underthrow the receiver which seems silly.

[wildthing2022000]

Re: New Madden NFL 10 blog post - QB improvements

Laterals should also use this as some laterals are thrown while the player is getting tackled.

[Stikskillz]

Re: New Madden NFL 10 blog post - QB improvements

As most of us realize in Madden, playing QB is a major key to success and these new additions so far are welcome. EA, please continue with the innovation! Push the envelope!

I agree with another post that stated play-action has to be tuned and addressed correctly! A defense should never bite on play-action on any down and long yardage. The offense should earn the D's respect by running the ball to set up play-action.

Also, QB's should not be able to thow across their bodies while on the run so effectively. I hope the throw on the run attribute reflects that. A user should be rewarded with a ratings boost or ratings stay the same for stopping and setting their feet, staying and moving around in the pocket and stepping into throws. A user should be penalized for immediately running out of the pocket backwards or without looking downfield and making throws. The icons disappearing were a good start, but it seems like it should be incorporated more. This is why the Light (Vision Cone) must come back.

EA has already stated they are working on the headtracking for WR's/DB's/LB's, so it makes sense for QB's to have to see who they are throwing to. The light should be mandatory on All-Madden and All-Pro. As you may recall the amount of Vision/light was affected by the QB's awareness, which brings me to my next point.

QB and overall player awareness should be more integral throughout the game. Hopefully this is where procedural awareness also makes an impact. For example, users shouldn't be no-huddling all the way down the field with QB's with low awareness. The user should be penalized with random audibles not being available, false starts, fatigue, poor play execution. It could also be possible for a user to have a QB that is high in awareness, but other skill players are low and that would cause them to make mistakes on hot routes, run poor routes, and miss blocking assignments, again making no huddling risky.

Like all of us, I look forward to hearing more information about the game, but please forgive me when I get distracted by MLB '09 the Show :wink:

[STLRams]

Re: New Madden NFL 10 blog post - QB improvements

Please don't have that QB vision/flashlight thing that was on one of the former Madden games on by default. I hated how that looked during gameplay, it looked like a gimmick. I understand the reason behind it, but lets get back to playing straight up sim football. No weapons, icons, flashlights, attached to players, have the game look like you are watching a real NFL game.

[thejake]

Re: New Madden NFL 10 blog post - QB improvements

I have a question about the accuracy section. Don't know if this was mentioned....

Based on your new algorithm...It seems like there's no way that a ball can be thrown behind the receiver. I think having an inaccurate qb throw right behind a receiver running an out and into the waiting safeties arms would be good too.

I'm no programmer (or artist obviously ) but this is how it should look imo. I understand the smaller the area the less odds of the ball being thrown around that area which is why you went for the new shape. But the same should be done in a smaller fashion for the opposite side.



Just my opinion. Don't know if it's feasible or maybe I'm just misunderstanding your chart.

EXCELLENT work overall though Ian .

You see the part where it says perfect accuracy. That is where the wide receiver will be when the ball get there. There is some area behind that red circle, therefore passes behind the receiver are possible.