Bahnzo's PitchFX Sliders for 2K9

[Bahnzo]

HERE is a link to last year's post that explains the detail and the stats I used to set sliders. I like to try to use real life MLB stats in an attempt to create a slider set that will have the CPU pitching and batting as close to real life as possible.

I'm still tweaking right now, but I also wanted to start a discussion on what (again) is wrong with the AI in MLB2K9. It's obvious to the naked eye the AI swings too much at the plate, and all we can do at this point is hope that VC will be able to patch this issue.

Let's start with this chart:

<iframe width='500' height='250' frameborder='0' src='http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pFLe20s9yWG7R5VJ9PPtADA'></iframe>

These are the stats I've collected so far with 2K9. It's still not enough, but a trend is already showing. Let me say before I get trashed on it, that I pitch very carefully and IMO do a good job of mixing up pitches and throwing to corners. Also I use the IE chart religiously when throwing.

The first thing that sticks out is the AI is swinging at too many pitches. This we already know, but here's proof that they are swinging about 7.5% too much. Another thing that sticks out, is again this year there aren't enough foul balls from the CPU. 22% too few. Something like this kills realism and lowers the pitch counts for the human pitchers. Also, combined with too many swings, you can also see they don't take enough pitches for strikes either..again known, but shown here for proof.

Basically, my gripe here is again with the lack of foul balls. If VC/2K would simply increase the amount of foul balls from the AI, it would solve a large problem and make the game much more realistic. There are of course other problems with the AI pitching, but work might be possible on that.

The main problem, is the reliance on Inside Edge and it's interface with the game. Even if it does get fixed, there could be other problems that crop up. I have to say I don't understand why the great sliders we had with 2K8 weren't kept for use in this game? They really just needed some tweaking/fixing by VC to make them work properly and we had all the tools needed to fix any problems that might've arisen from the game.

So let's keep our fingers crossed for the patch, but I hope someone from VC will take the time to understand the data I've shown so far (and I'll update it as I keep collecting it) and use it to realize what needs to be done to improve realism for patch #2.

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Edit: Updated stats. Had a slight error in one calculation for the pitches swung at. It's actually worse than I said. Not 7%, but 17% too much swung at.

[Bahnzo]

Re: Bahnzo PitchFX Sliders for 2K9

Bahnzo's PitchFX Sliders for MLB2K9 v1

Available on 2KShare as BahnzoPitchFXv1

After some testing these are the sliders I'm currently using to play games. In the last 5 games I'm 2-3 with the Cardinals. I've lost to the A's (7-1), Yankees (4-3) and the Reds (5-4), and beaten the Brewers (2-1) and just had a barn burner against the Pirates which was a back and forth, see saw game with both teams taking leads and giving it back until I scored a pinch hit walkoff single in the 9th to win it 7-6.

There are still some things that I haven't messed with much, like bunting and stealing. The focus was getting the AI to pitch and bat as real as possible to MLB averages, as well as the human hitting.

Controller Settings
Batting: Classic(button), Batter's eye off, Zone Hitting off.
Pitching: Total Control - Release Timing Off, Breakpoint Aim.

Game Settings
Pitcher Fatigue: 50
Active Bullpen: On
Catcher Suggestions: On/Off (I prefer off)

Presentation Settings
Strike Zone Window: Off
Inside Edge K-Zone: Off (anyone else notice this differs from the IE pitching sheet?)
Ball Trail: Off
Dynamic Landing Indicator: Locked

<iframe width='450' height='1641' frameborder='0' src='http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pFLe20s9yWG4JUTs2l5dFVQ&output=html&gid=0& single=true&range=a2:e74'></iframe>

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Scouting Report!
The CPU can be deadly at the plate. You will have to pay attention to the IE report, mix up pitches and hit the corners. I've noticed also that curveballs aren't always a killer pitch/auto strike. Don't give up if you get shelled. I've had innings where I've been hit hard, and then gotten my composure back and finished strong..but I've also pitched a 5 hit game.

CPU pitchers will throw a good amount of balls and mix up speeds and locations on you. Patience is required to hit. Swinging at a first pitch will cost you, and waiting for your pitch will reward you.

Hitting seems to be a good mix for both Human and AI, but there still aren't enough 3b's. Maybe lowering fielding speed one notch would help, but I'm reluctant to do that with the slow down in the outfield that happen already.

Give these a try! I think you'll find they will provide a challenging yet rewarding game.

[Bahnzo]

Re: Bahnzo PitchFX Sliders for 2K9

Here's the current stats I have recorded for the games I've played so far. Without the detailed sliders from 2K8 and the AI being too aggressive, it's difficult to get them to swing like they should during an at bat. Let's hope a patch can fix it. So my real goal at this point is to get the MLB averages for games to come out close. Things like the right amount of hits, K's, etc.

I'll keep this updated to keep track of how well (or not) these do.

<iframe width='585' height='540' frameborder='0' src='http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pFLe20s9yWG4gF1esrYnmAw&output=html&gid=0& single=true&range=a3:i27'></iframe>

[Bahnzo]

Re: Bahnzo PitchFX Sliders for 2K9

Just played a 15 inning game with my Cards against the Padres in Petco.

STL 4|12|2
SAN 2|11|1

Jake Peavy shut me down all game, allowing only 3 hits in eight innings. Ahead 2-0 in the 8th, they pinch hit for him and I came back to tie against Cal Merideth in the 9th with a 2 RBI single from Molina with 2 outs. Battled for a couple innings with no real threats beside isolated base hits from both clubs....until Rick Ankiel hit a 2 run homer into the right field seats to take the lead, and for once my closer did the job.

One of the best games I've played so far this year. (I did have a 25 inning game last year that took 3 hours to play...would've loved the save game feature there!)

[BigL]

Re: Bahnzo PitchFX Sliders for 2K9

I appreciate the work you put into these. I am using Bigfnjoe's sliders and they are a very good base, but Im thinking of tweaking them and doing some things that I see in your sliders; mainly Im thinking of lowering by my contact and the AI contact to get more swinging strikes. Since they swing so much they are getting a few too many hits.

I have pitch speed at 75 also, but am thinking of raising it because 2K seemed to tone down their pitch speed in this year's game. At 75 I am not feeling "overpowered" at the plate by the flame throwers. What do you think?

Thanks again man.

[daz]

Re: Bahnzo PitchFX Sliders for 2K9

I've been using Joe's sliders too and like them, but have been finding the same. I simply make too much contact and so does the AI. I've actually lowered my contact to zero using the swing stick with little effect. So I raised it to 10 and went to classic swing and am seeing a much different game. I actually lowered hitting success too I still think that the swing stick, while improved, is far too easy to make contact with.
Are these uploaded on 2k Share? If not, no biggie, I'll give these a try.

[Trapdoors Exist]

Re: Bahnzo PitchFX Sliders for 2K9

Awesome stuff man. Glad to see someone putting this much thought and analysis behind their sliders. Maybe you can start a trend of sabremetric slider tweaking. :wink:

I've been using similar batting sliders (low contact, high success, high power) and have been getting more realistic results that way. I also agree with BigL - I max out pitch speed and pitch meter speed.

I'll give these a whirl, as the CPU pitching sliders here are way different than what I've been using.

Keep up the good work.

[Bahnzo]

Re: Bahnzo PitchFX Sliders for 2K9

I appreciate the work you put into these. I am using Bigfnjoe's sliders and they are a very good base, but Im thinking of tweaking them and doing some things that I see in your sliders; mainly Im thinking of lowering by my contact and the AI contact to get more swinging strikes. Since they swing so much they are getting a few too many hits.

I have pitch speed at 75 also, but am thinking of raising it because 2K seemed to tone down their pitch speed in this year's game. At 75 I am not feeling "overpowered" at the plate by the flame throwers. What do you think?

Thanks again man.

I agree that 75 feels a tad too slow sometimes. But it does seem that pitch speed has an effect on how hard the ball is hit also. 75 seems to be a good balance between these two.

[Bahnzo]

Re: Bahnzo PitchFX Sliders for 2K9

I've been using Joe's sliders too and like them, but have been finding the same. I simply make too much contact and so does the AI. I've actually lowered my contact to zero using the swing stick with little effect. So I raised it to 10 and went to classic swing and am seeing a much different game. I actually lowered hitting success too I still think that the swing stick, while improved, is far too easy to make contact with.
Are these uploaded on 2k Share? If not, no biggie, I'll give these a try.

These should be up on 2KShare....I haven't checked but they were uploaded last nite as BahnzoPitchFXv1.

The thing I've found with contact is having them set low means you get punished for swinging at pitches low and away and whatnot. It almost seems like contact has as much to do with the quality of the contact made as it does with swinging and missing. I need to do more testing on this tho.

[Bahnzo]

Re: Bahnzo PitchFX Sliders for 2K9

Awesome stuff man. Glad to see someone putting this much thought and analysis behind their sliders. Maybe you can start a trend of sabremetric slider tweaking. :wink:

I've been using similar batting sliders (low contact, high success, high power) and have been getting more realistic results that way. I also agree with BigL - I max out pitch speed and pitch meter speed.

I'll give these a whirl, as the CPU pitching sliders here are way different than what I've been using.

Keep up the good work.

Baseball's the perfect game for sliders! So many stats you can use if you are just willing to take the time. I admit it's not for everyone to play a video game with a pen and paper, but I think it's fun to see how close to the real thing you can get by tweaking the sliders.

Pitch meter speed is for sure something that should be set on an individual basis. If you are able to throw perfectly every time, then the AI just becomes too easy to get out. The problem is tho, even with higher speeds, you still adapt to it and eventually it doesn't matter. What 2K needs is to introduce something that WSB2K3 had....variable pitching.

One of those problems is the AI aren't hitting enough extra base hits. The only ones they get off me are usually due to errors in the outfield. I'm trying out a few different things to "help" them hit a little better, turning some of those singles into doubles.

[daz]

Re: Bahnzo PitchFX Sliders for 2K9

Would upping the AI batting contact slider (10-15) make for a few more extra base hits? Or would you be sacrificing other statistics as a result?

[Bahnzo]

Re: Bahnzo PitchFX Sliders for 2K9

Would upping the AI batting contact slider (10-15) make for a few more extra base hits? Or would you be sacrificing other statistics as a result?

I've actually been messing with this today, and it seems the contact slider does control how often the AI makes contact when they hit, not the quality of contact when they do hit it. I think quality of contact might have more to do with the AI's IE batting influence. Since pitching is so easy to hit spots and work the corners, even with the weakest pitchers, the AI is continually having to hit pitches that all but the best major league batters can't do anything with.

So I'm going to experiment with that slider to see if more extra base hits can be produced without sacrificing contact, which I think is actually spot on at this time.

I've also lowered both the AI and the Human fielding speed to 40. The jury is still out on this, but I feel it does help with creating a few more hits....the question is- does it do it realistically? I really wish we had separate sliders for the infield and outfield on this..like last year. Again the infielders this year are virtual vacuum cleaners and seem to get to everything.

So it's still very much a work in progress, and I feel it might be all for nothing if a good patch is released, but I still want to try to get the most realistic game possible with what we have to work with.

[therizing02]

Re: Bahnzo PitchFX Sliders for 2K9

I experimented with this a lot today and had a fair amount of success getting extras base hits in franchise play.

In two games the CPU had a total of 16 hits. 4 doubles, 1 triple, and 1 HR. While those are good numbers, I'm still not seeing a lot of hard hits.

After the franchise games I went into Play Now mode and for testing purposes I started a game as Texas in Seattle on default Legendary.

After playing a couple of innings, I went back to Bahnzos sliders but moved the pitch speed to 95 and the hits were flying all over the place. The good news was that they were flying at a realistic pace. You still need to "go with the pitch" to make a good contact, but I was down 4-2 in the 8th, after Hamilton drove a line drive into the RC gap I had Blalock up and was sitting on a fast ball over the outer half. I launched the first pitch far over the LC field wall to tie the game at 4.

Went to the 10th. Got a leadoff double, then a walk. A ground out put runners at 2nd and 3rd and another scorching double off the RF wall made it 6-4. I added 2 more to win 8-4.

Ok, so as I expected the PS has a significant effect on the speed and distance of a ball put into play. I only played one game, so if it 95 is a bit much I'll just keeping knocking it down until it feels right.

You would think that with the pitch speed at 95, you wouldn't be able to see the ball. You'll be surprised at how fast your eyes will adjust. Just 2 days ago, I was using a pitch speed of 50. Went to 75 with these sliders, adjusted to that, and now I'm at 95.

For the record, I think the Contact slider is meaningless. I've noticed no difference at 0 or 50.

[Bahnzo]

Re: Bahnzo PitchFX Sliders for 2K9

For the record, I think the Contact slider is meaningless. I've noticed no difference at 0 or 50.

I'd have to respectfully disagree....sorta. I made a point of playing a couple games with it at 50 and with it at 100. At 50, there wasn't much difference, but I wasn't getting as many misses from the AI. At 100, they didn't seem to miss anything, except those damned curve balls...and the hits where flying all over the place. I still think it's better at 0, as long as you don't abuse the curve ball too much.

And..I had a nice break thru tonight with pitching....both for human and CPU. Gonna do some more testing on the CPU part, but if you are finding it too easy to pitch to the CPU, zoom the pitching camera as far back as possible. I have it at a setting of 8 high, 1 center, and 10 zoom. With it back like that, the ball cursor is still the same size and it's much harder to accurately hit your spots, strikes or balls. As a result I had to be much more careful around the better hitters and wound up walking 4 batters....unheard of for me against the AI. Made for a MUCH better game.

[Qb]

Re: Bahnzo PitchFX Sliders for 2K9

You rock. I'll be trying these once I finally play the game. I've had it since Saturday, but haven't fired it up yet. Not sure if I'll even get to it tonight... three days of ownership without playing has to be some sort of record for me.

And Riz, don't be getting too comfortable with my Buccos, 'cause I'm taking you down with them online!