Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Momentum

[Ijeswannaknow]

Hey Ian... all these new improvemants are great..Can u find time to add in signature style passing and running?... just about every starting QB or RB has a sig style you know...

[Outkizast]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Momentum

I LOVED this blog! It is precisely what was needed... it really makes agility, more than speed per say, matter.... I was playing madden 09 on the ps2 the other day and noticed how much i missed that turn radius... it makes all the players move MUCH more realistically.... gracias

[SageInfinite]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Momentum

It is becoming painfully obvious that many members of the Operation Sports community have never actually played football. Granted, everyone is entitled to his or her opinion, and many post with pertinent concerns. However, the failure to understand the purpose of this blog is astounding, even when Ian clearly expressed it in his response to Guillotine 1.

Contrary to the view of many on this forum, players do in fact change directions without planting their outside foot. If you think it is impossible to change direction without fully planting and pushing off, then 1. You are amazingly unathletic, 2. Have never watched athletes play any type of sport. Adambroski provided an excellent example with his kickoff return analogy.

Also, it must be stated that the previous route-running post has no applicability here whatsoever. Route-running cuts are completely abstract from turning, in both a game-programming sense and in a real-life applicability sense as well. To reiterate, this post is about turn-rating, not about sharp cuts.

Lastly, this is directed to Guillotine 1. The only place full "shoulders back, head held high, chest up, legs kicking" track-style sprint belongs on any level football field, let alone the NFL, is on a breakaway run. Asking for that type of animation every time a player presses the sprint trigger is ridiculous. That style of running is literally the exact opposite style taught in any decent program, because of the exposure it would lend to serious injury, and the fact that you aren't in an athletic position to move, which is exactly what football calls for. For a concrete example, knocks on both Adrian Peterson and Darren McFadden coming out of college were their upright running styles. In a breakaway situation I agree with you, but it does no seem as if that is your intention.

[Guillotine 1]

Re: Latest Madden NFL 10 blog: Player Momentum

Wrong. I see what you are saying, and unless I'm reading it wrong then MAYBE you could make a case that not everyone can do it. But I know for a fact many NFL ATHLETES can do this. Some of the sickest cuts I have ever seen are from Adrian Peterson on the "wrong" foot.

I'll leave you with these:






I'm not trying to insult the original poster, and I could be reading his post wrong, but I think this is a GREAT blog, and I want to really make sure Ian and Co. know it is appreciated. I'm excited to see how this will be incorporated especially on defense. Ian will defenders have to break down every so often in front of the RB to make sure they get a solid tackle and dont over run the play? If so this will go along very nicely with the Left stick cuts and ability to break out of animations feature that was added last year.

Nobody said anything about cuts man, this blog was about turns. While a runner is not cutting how does he turn left & right. You posted pictures of jump cuts. Those are not even the same as normal cuts where the runner plants a foot and cuts...these are shots of jump cuts. These runners gathered themselves, gave a head fake...dead legged a normal cut and jumped with the off leg to go in one direction with the same leg as the push off leg.

If you saw the entire move not just the still pictured above you'd see how sick it is. Your right, not everyone can do it. But we were not even talking about cutting animations...we were talking about momentum during normal turns.

You don't have to convince me about a person being able to defy gravity, I'm 5'9"...and I dunked on a 6'4" dude before. Some people are just unique. You guys are so eager to prove someone wrong...that you don't even take the time to understand what exactly to disprove...

[kcarr]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Momentum

Contrary to the view of many on this forum, players do in fact change directions without planting their outside foot. If you think it is impossible to change direction without fully planting and pushing off, then 1. You are amazingly unathletic, 2. Have never watched athletes play any type of sport. Adambroski provided an excellent example with his kickoff return analogy.

Also, it must be stated that the previous route-running post has no applicability here whatsoever. Route-running cuts are completely abstract from turning, in both a game-programming sense and in a real-life applicability sense as well. To reiterate, this post is about turn-rating, not about sharp cuts.

Turning 90 degrees while trying to maintain speed is the same running a route or running with the ball. To make a 90 degree turn on a dime either way should either require slowing down in advance or planting your foot to turn or rounding the turn like in the video, especially if the guy is running 20 or 25 yards like he does in the video, building up a good head of steam and then trying to turn.

In that situation the footplant is a weapon that works in favor of the runner allowing him to stop and start again more quickly than trying to do the same without planting your foot. This is a situation that other than running routes really doesn't happen very often, most of the time a change in direction is 45 degrees or less and therefor takes much less slowing down to make that turn on a dime. I really hope they don't overdo it making it to tough to make these subtle cuts without slowing down a lot or without planting your foot. I do hope they make the momentum count for enough but most highly agile athletes can make a lot of these cuts and a decently high speed, as high as you are going to hit running through traffic, without losing too much of that speed.

[ghostlight85]

Re: Latest Madden NFL 10 blog: Player Momentum

That's what they make sliders for.

Yeah but we have yet to see a slider that would impact this in any real way in any game.

[Guillotine 1]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Momentum

It is becoming painfully obvious that many members of the Operation Sports community have never actually played football. Granted, everyone is entitled to his or her opinion, and many post with pertinent concerns. However, the failure to understand the purpose of this blog is astounding, even when Ian clearly expressed it in his response to Guillotine 1.

Contrary to the view of many on this forum, players do in fact change directions without planting their outside foot. If you think it is impossible to change direction without fully planting and pushing off, then 1. You are amazingly unathletic, 2. Have never watched athletes play any type of sport. Adambroski provided an excellent example with his kickoff return analogy.

Also, it must be stated that the previous route-running post has no applicability here whatsoever. Route-running cuts are completely abstract from turning, in both a game-programming sense and in a real-life applicability sense as well. To reiterate, this post is about turn-rating, not about sharp cuts.

Lastly, this is directed to Guillotine 1. The only place full "shoulders back, head held high, chest up, legs kicking" track-style sprint belongs on any level football field, let alone the NFL, is on a breakaway run. Asking for that type of animation every time a player presses the sprint trigger is ridiculous. That style of running is literally the exact opposite style taught in any decent program, because of the exposure it would lend to serious injury, and the fact that you aren't in an athletic position to move, which is exactly what football calls for. For a concrete example, knocks on both Adrian Peterson and Darren McFadden coming out of college were their upright running styles. In a breakaway situation I agree with you, but it does no seem as if that is your intention.

Did you not read the part where I said when the runner reaches top speed, or is in a full out sprint??? Obviously, you didn't. So, to clear it up for you...I meant once the runner reaches his top speed...I don't care if he's breaking away or not.

The knock on Peterson was legit, because he was doing it at the LOS were RB's take the majority of the contact they get. They wanted his pad level lower at the line...Eric Dickerson, Roger Craig, Earl Campbell, Bo Jackson, Rodney Hampden, Jim Brown, Bob Hayes, and Tony Dorsett all run this way once they passed the LOS.

How can you run your fastest...and never open up into a full stride??? Sure, it may take you a couple seconds to get their depending on your ability but every player opens up his stride if daylight is ahead.

Now, to speak about my own abilities or accomplishments in sports. I have kicked ceilings from a stand still (no running start), I have played an entire basketball game, and not missed a single attempt. I have done dragon push ups one-handed, and if I recall correctly I made five defenders miss on a pretty sick QB keeper. I'm no average joe.

Listen, we're talking about turns. Don't treat me like I give these EA guys hell, because I don't. You act as if I have some kind of agenda. I have no reason to have to defend myself, because I don't feel as if I've done/said anything unreasonable.

Sometimes people disagree. I think thats what we have here. You seem to think that without making a cut, or a plant you can turn on your pivot foot...I say, you'll blow out your damn ACL, and MCL.

But, hey...I'll just be a man about it & say I'm wrong like you suggest just so we don't have to continue the debate.

Here's what disturbs me about these forums. Members are asked to give honest feedback to improve the game, yet anytime I voice discord (which is rare) I get ousted like a leapor. Fine, say of me whatever you must. But, I'll continue to be an individual with my own thoughts...and not those that were given to me by a populus, or for popularity sake.

[Bodizzy]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Momentum

All of these "little" tweaks and changes to Madden are slowly adding up to something... nice. The Kool-Aid is starting to taste pretty good.

[Glorious Arc]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Momentum

Guillotine 1, Im having issues trying to figure out what you mean about not being able to turn with the right foot down.

When I played soccer, I would make alot of my turns with just using my one foot in the ground and powering off of it to start the turn. I see this type of turn in the very start of the ballcarrier. What makes it "jerky" is he leaves his right foot in the ground longer then the rest of his steps. I think the proper term for leaving his right foot in the ground at the time would be his plant foot. At 4 seconds he is putting down his left foot so he maintains balance and a strong follow thru.

To every one else....Check out the move at 0:43-45...

[Guillotine 1]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Momentum

Guillotine 1, Im having issues trying to figure out what you mean about not being able to turn with the right foot down.

When I played soccer, I would make alot of my turns with just using my one foot in the ground and powering off of it to start the turn. I see this type of turn in the very start of the ballcarrier. What makes it "jerky" is he leaves his right foot in the ground longer then the rest of his steps. I think the proper term for leaving his right foot in the ground at the time would be his plant foot. At 4 seconds he is putting down his left foot so he maintains balance and a strong follow thru.

To every one else....Check out the move at 0:43-45...

If you can place your body weight on your pivot foot, and lift your unpivoted weightless opposite foot...and then turn against your monentum without cutting or jump cutting...I will call you Jesus Christ from now on.

This act, defies the laws of physics, and nature.

[SageInfinite]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Momentum

If you can place your body weight on your pivot foot, and lift your unpivoted weightless opposite foot...and then turn against your monentum without cutting or jump cutting...I will call you Jesus Christ from now on.

This act, defies the laws of physics, and nature.

We should be callin you that with all that stuff you said you did in your previous post

[Glorious Arc]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Momentum

If you can place your body weight on your pivot foot, and lift your unpivoted weightless opposite foot...and then turn against your monentum without cutting or jump cutting...I will call you Jesus Christ from now on.

This act, defies the laws of physics, and nature.

Clear this up for me in the first turn that the player makes. Which foot do you consider to be his pivot foot? He isnt turning 90 degrees instantly which I would have a problem with if he didnt do a juke but he is turning instead he continues to move a few yards and as he makes that cut/move/turn/whatever you want to call it he uses his right foot to plant and push off then as his next step comes he is now facing more to the right and he plants then with his left foot to straighten himself out.

[Cnada]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Momentum

Hey Ian good Blog thought you would skip this week with the review and Alpha etc.

Im not a fan of these specific animation/graphic changes. Yes i know they work and you guys work hard on them but in the big picture of the game i think the development time should be used to upgrade other areas.

Momentum,weight,locomotion yes they sound really fancy and look cool when you look just at those little things up close but its EXACTLY like last year
-Sideline Catches
-Spectacular Catch
-Slipping in the Rain (boy there was some hype on that)

Point im making is that all those little bits did little or nothing to upgrade gameplay.
My receivers never make sideline catches inbound ive seen the animation a million times and its always out of bounds making them look dumb.
Spectacular catch was cool but you removed the majority of it in 09 (i never see it in the endzone)
Slipping in the rain....never happens.

Yes when you guys have debug versions you guys get to see all those cool things...the end user rarely see's them. I play 2 games a day and looking back the things i take away from madden 09 is
1. Commentary
2. Presentation a little bit of stats are cool i wanna see diagrams again
3.Preplay Augmentations

See??

[Sef0r]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Momentum

I agree wholeheartedly with what Guillotine 1 is saying.
I mean imagine, you running torward a wall and you have 2 choices. Plant and turn right or left. If upon planting my right foot in front of me and then proceeding to turn right, my head would smack into the wall. If your right foot was in front of you your natural instinct would be to turn left. If you really wanted to turn right, you would plant your left foot. Anyone who doesn't understand that logic and think athletes can do it easily with about 14 pounds worth of gear on should try it...video it and put it on youtube.

This is work in progress and I'm sure Ian knew about it and if he didn't he knows about it now.
Because this is work in progress, I will accept that the lean looks unnatural when the player turns, that while turning in those videos it seems like an 8-way D pad is being used...these are acceptable because these are not in game yet with other models and tweaking.

[shttymcgee]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Momentum

If you can place your body weight on your pivot foot, and lift your unpivoted weightless opposite foot...and then turn against your monentum without cutting or jump cutting...I will call you Jesus Christ from now on.

This act, defies the laws of physics, and nature.

The whole idea of a "speed cut" is exactly this. I guess every receiver that ever played for Martz (just one example of a coach who teaches speed cuts) must have had omnipetent powers.

Their "3" cut was a speed-out that broke off the 4th OUTSIDE step.