NCAA Football 10 Blog: Player Pursuit Angles

[adembroski]

Re: NCAA Football 10 Blog: Player Pursuit Angles

I admit they are working towards this. The point I'm making is that other issues still persist. The running back cutting and accelerating like they did in the videos are still a problem. No human can do that. It is anatomically impossible, not to mention defies the laws of physics. This is all part of gameplay. Fixing that helps to fix gameply. The 2k games had this right. What EA showed in those videos just shows they still haven't gotten it yet. Perhaps they are working on that part but I can only judge on what I've seen so far. until they show me they have fixed that I'm not going to get too excited.

Just because I love to shoot down the over-zealous 2k glorifies who think that it had branching animations and perfect physics, I popped in 2k5 and APF and tried this... and it worked just fine In fact, that twitchy game play is exactly why many people didn't switch to it from Madden. That was one of the major points of contention between the two schools of Football Gamer was Madden's (last gen) far superior inertia physics.

You guys need to stop looking back at that game with rose colored glasses, it wasn't perfect. I still own it, I still play it, that's proof of the high regard in which I hold the game, but quit lying about it to make your point.

[Solidice]

Re: NCAA Football 10: Player pursuit angles

I'm going to guess and say that CPU AI is one of your final two Ice.

For me, this is number 1. If this series is released again this year without adaptive AI and no deep throws by the CPU I'll be disgusted....again.

If I have a freshman CB in BnR coverage on a faster All American WR, there better be an audible by the CPU taking this rookie deep. There is no risk to missing any defensive play call. This *hit has got to stop.

Also, there was NO excuse and it was appalling last year to watch the CPU run that stupid Read play, that this was the main reason I took the game back in December.

The pursuit angles videos show progress. Hopefully this helps negate the all important speed rating cheat in NCAA.

I also would like to see the CPU QB roll out right and the physically impossible zip throwback to the left eliminated from the game.

yeah that was it. I'm pretty much 99.9% Dynasty mode player, whether offline, or now with the online dynasty. I am still able to play '09, but I have to use so many house rules, that it's not really much fun anymore. I kind of split the AI in 2 parts so it was basically my other 2 gameplay items.

[IndyColts2]

Re: NCAA Football 10 Blog: Player Pursuit Angles

Just because I love to shoot down the over-zealous 2k glorifies who think that it had branching animations and perfect physics, I popped in 2k5 and APF and tried this... and it worked just fine In fact, that twitchy game play is exactly why many people didn't switch to it from Madden. That was one of the major points of contention between the two schools of Football Gamer was Madden's (last gen) far superior inertia physics.

You guys need to stop looking back at that game with rose colored glasses, it wasn't perfect. I still own it, I still play it, that's proof of the high regard in which I hold the game, but quit lying about it to make your point.

For real, anybody making a point that Madden isn't doing the things it should add in that 2k had better things no matter what it was. Calm down people, 2k was not good at all in the gameplay department. The only thing that kept it alive was the great animations and presentation, other than that it had bad graphics and poor overall gameplay. Yea it was a little more realistic than Madden at the time but the way the players ran and felt weren't good at all. If it was CPU vs. CPU ESPN won that battle over Madden by far, but if your playing the game it isn't that good at all.

[deadlyCane]

Re: NCAA Football 10 Blog: Player Pursuit Angles

adembroski, at the risk of turning this into a 2k vs EA thread, just to clarify my 2k reference, what I am talking about is the ability of the runner to change direction running at full speed. In Madden and NCAA any runner can do that in what seems to be an unnatural way, at least to me anyway. In the 2k games, many times you'll see the runner decelerate to do some of those rapid change of direction. The lesser the agility rating the more decleration. They then have to accelerate again. Sometimes if you turn too rapidly they'll even put their hand on the ground for balance. This is more pronounced in 2k8 than 2k5.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not saying the 2k games don't have their flaws. I've just started playing and am seeing some things I don't like. It's always been a case of the more I play a sports game the more I see things I don't like. Nevertheless the area of running with the ball is one area where I prefer the 2k games over the EA games. It took a while for the 2k games to grow on me but I've come to realize I like them better than the EA games. I play NCAA due to the being a huge college fan and because of the OD. I'm keeping an eye on Madden this year because Ian has shown some stuff I like. Chances are I'll buy but I won't know for sure yet until I see more. I don't want to derail this thread into a 2k vs EA thread so I'll leave it at that.

jdhammer, I agree with everything you wrote in your post.

[adembroski]

Re: NCAA Football 10 Blog: Player Pursuit Angles

adembroski, at the risk of turning this into a 2k vs EA thread, just to clarify my 2k reference, what I am talking about is the ability of the runner to change direction running at full speed. In Madden and NCAA any runner can do that in what seems to be an unnatural way, at least to me anyway. In the 2k games, many times you'll see the runner decelerate to do some of those rapid change of direction. The lesser the agility rating the more decleration. They then have to accelerate again. Sometimes if you turn too rapidly they'll even put their hand on the ground for balance. This is more pronounced in 2k8 than 2k5.

What is happening in the "twitch" vid is those short little back and forth zig zags... and I was able to replicate that exactly in 2k5 and APF. Yes, they both have tighter turn animations than Madden, but keep in mind that they were totally non-existant until 2k5... 2k4, 2k3 and down the line didn't have physics at all. The 2k5 physics were sketchy and unreliable at best.

I'm not dogging the game, it's an awesome game. All I'm saying is that we tend to put it on this pedestal as the pinnacle of sports gaming that it doesn't quite belong in.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not saying the 2k games don't have their flaws. I've just started playing and am seeing some things I don't like. It's always been a case of the more I play a sports game the more I see things I don't like. Nevertheless the area of running with the ball is one area where I prefer the 2k games over the EA games. It took a while for the 2k games to grow on me but I've come to realize I like them better than the EA games. I play NCAA due to the being a huge college fan and because of the OD. I'm keeping an eye on Madden this year because Ian has shown some stuff I like. Chances are I'll buy but I won't know for sure yet until I see more. I don't want to derail this thread into a 2k vs EA thread so I'll leave it at that.

I'm honestly not a big fan of the twitchy running at all. 2ks I like much better than NextGen madden has been to this point... but Last-Gen Madden didn't have that problem. I mentioned that play editor was one of the reasons I stuck with Madden when 2k5 came out... player inertia and physics were the other reason.

The areas where I felt 2k excelled were presentation (although, to be honest, I'm not a fan of the on-field player audio, and I absolutely detest the post-game interviews), and blocking... and blocking was the main reason for 2ks dominance in the running game dept imho.

And you can't have a Madden vs. 2k argument with me for real because I know which is the better game. I have very particular aspects of Madden that tip the balance for me, so I prefer it (last gen anyways), but I know I haven't played a Madden that's better than 2k5.

APF, that's a whole different ball game. The balance was so shot in that game it's pathetic.

[FlyingFinn]

Re: NCAA Football 10 Blog: Player Pursuit Angles

Question...

How polished are these vids? Are they from the final build? Are they exactly what we'll be playing?

To think the game will be radically different then these vids is a bit naive... What you see is what you get other then some tuning.

[FlyingFinn]

Re: NCAA Football 10 Blog: Player Pursuit Angles

All I'm saying is that we tend to put it on this pedestal as the pinnacle of sports gaming that it doesn't quite belong in.

It belongs on that pedestal because no other football game has dethroned it yet...

[QuietStorm627]

Re: NCAA Football 10 Blog: Player Pursuit Angles

Hey guys long time lurker first time poster. Been playing NCAA since 03 so Im not new to the game. I figured I could help with something. I work in the broadcast design industry( making commercials etc.) and what I see here is the same issues that we run into when creating visuals for clients. You have to be able to use your imagination and focus on what is being presented to you and not only what you see. For example if Im creating a Kellog's commercial and the new box hasn't been released yet, I still have to present something until I get the final picture of the box. You are left no choice but to use a surrogate picture that may not be the same brand but is of the same shape that only serves as a placeholder to help you see what it "will" look like. The client will say "THATS NOT OUR PRODUCT!!" after you clearly explained that it's just a placeholder so they can get an idea of the direction you are trying to go. So basically one part of the EA team(let's use design) is saying we want to show the pursuit angle, the animation side is like ok we aren't done. The design team says ok we still want to give the people an idea, so let's take what we have( 09 animations for OL/DL, running, etc. etc. as the placeholder) so we can get something out there.

In football terms, if a the team is split up into O and D at practice and your number #1 CB is working on his jamming skills, Do you take your #1 reciever out of his drills and have him perform a menial task like that? Or do you grab somebody on the bench to act as the wideout? The guy on the bench is the placeholder serving a purpose so that the intended idea can still get through.

I think what happens is that the posters on this board are not familiar with the visual/creative industries and think these are regular 9-5 jobs. There are alot of weekends and overnight stays. More than likely there is a period at EA called hell week where they sleep under their desks overnight for about a week to crank this thing out. So trust me its alot of time left and it's still very early, because of how much constant work is being put in. Heck while some of us in the same time zone are sleep in our beds there is someone at EA with bloodshot eyes working on formation subs( you guys didn't think I was gonna not get my request in did you? lol). So be excited about the changes because they were shown in the other videos, be able to use your imagination and combine the videos in your head. Your looking at placeholder animations to save time and have you focus in on a specific point. Heck we are more than lucky they are even letting us see WIPs, most creative people don't like people seeing anything they do until its final. I hope I helped someone who may be getting discouraged

[countryboy]

Re: NCAA Football 10 Blog: Player Pursuit Angles

To think the game will be radically different then these vids is a bit naive... What you see is what you get other then some tuning.

that was my point.

[Exonerated]

Re: NCAA Football 10 Blog: Player Pursuit Angles

To think the game will be radically different then these vids is a bit naive... What you see is what you get other then some tuning.

Its the 09 build with an 10 update.

To hide their new features for NCAA 10, they had to use NCAA 09 build but implement their NCAA 10 pursuit angle.

Its the same thing they did with the camera angle screen shot. The one with no pocket vs the one with a pocket.


To think the game will be not radically different from these vids is a bit naive...

To think they will reveal all their new features in a 10 second vid and ruin their 3 month plan about marketting is very naive.

[tylerd02]

Re: NCAA Football 10 Blog: Player Pursuit Angles

Its the 09 build with an 10 update.

To hide their new features for NCAA 10, they had to use NCAA 09 build but implement their NCAA 10 pursuit angle.

Its the same thing they did with the camera angle screen shot. The one with no pocket vs the one with a pocket.


To think the game will be not radically different from these vids is a bit naive...

To think they will reveal all their new features in a 10 second vid and ruin their 3 month plan about marketting is very naive.

I agree

[mjussawalla]

Re: NCAA Football 10 Blog: Player Pursuit Angles

Hey guys long time lurker first time poster. Been playing NCAA since 03 so Im not new to the game. I figured I could help with something. I work in the broadcast design industry( making commercials etc.) and what I see here is the same issues that we run into when creating visuals for clients. You have to be able to use your imagination and focus on what is being presented to you and not only what you see. For example if Im creating a Kellog's commercial and the new box hasn't been released yet, I still have to present something until I get the final picture of the box. You are left no choice but to use a surrogate picture that may not be the same brand but is of the same shape that only serves as a placeholder to help you see what it "will" look like. The client will say "THATS NOT OUR PRODUCT!!" after you clearly explained that it's just a placeholder so they can get an idea of the direction you are trying to go. So basically one part of the EA team(let's use design) is saying we want to show the pursuit angle, the animation side is like ok we aren't done. The design team says ok we still want to give the people an idea, so let's take what we have( 09 animations for OL/DL, running, etc. etc. as the placeholder) so we can get something out there.

In football terms, if a the team is split up into O and D at practice and your number #1 CB is working on his jamming skills, Do you take your #1 reciever out of his drills and have him perform a menial task like that? Or do you grab somebody on the bench to act as the wideout? The guy on the bench is the placeholder serving a purpose so that the intended idea can still get through.

I think what happens is that the posters on this board are not familiar with the visual/creative industries and think these are regular 9-5 jobs. There are alot of weekends and overnight stays. More than likely there is a period at EA called hell week where they sleep under their desks overnight for about a week to crank this thing out. So trust me its alot of time left and it's still very early, because of how much constant work is being put in. Heck while some of us in the same time zone are sleep in our beds there is someone at EA with bloodshot eyes working on formation subs( you guys didn't think I was gonna not get my request in did you? lol). So be excited about the changes because they were shown in the other videos, be able to use your imagination and combine the videos in your head. Your looking at placeholder animations to save time and have you focus in on a specific point. Heck we are more than lucky they are even letting us see WIPs, most creative people don't like people seeing anything they do until its final. I hope I helped someone who may be getting discouraged

I 100% understand what you are trying to say. However, I think many people who have doubts are basing it on our experience with the product.

I know the people working on the game give it their all. But from my perspective it just seems as if EA has put fewer resources into this game compared to previous years.

Just my 2 cents.

[P2K]

Re: NCAA Football 10 Blog: Player Pursuit Angles

Yeah, it's like people are going to crucify others for not sharing their opinion. Even going to the extent of lecturing people and twisting their words. I wrote that I am reserving my excitement and it's magically interpreted as I am judging the final product without seeing it or saying the cake is bitter just by tasting the batter. At least it was something like that, can't be bothered to reread that. Yet those are the same people who are rushing to open their wallets to EA without seeing a final product. Doesn't make sense to me.

After reading this thread and going by the tone of this here post, it's kinda 50-50.

And after reading the other threads dealing with the blog entries, it's clear as day that some people were waiting in the bushes to finally give the lovefest a good ol' wet blanket. "Finally...we found something wrong!!!". Because the previous threads (Madden & NCAA) were pretty tame and informative.

This one...not so much.

[stoncold32]

Re: NCAA Football 10 Blog: Player Pursuit Angles

Its the 09 build with an 10 update.

To hide their new features for NCAA 10, they had to use NCAA 09 build but implement their NCAA 10 pursuit angle.

Its the same thing they did with the camera angle screen shot. The one with no pocket vs the one with a pocket.


To think the game will be not radically different from these vids is a bit naive...

To think they will reveal all their new features in a 10 second vid and ruin their 3 month plan about marketting is very naive.

What?!?!?!?! You're making sense....how dare you!

[P2K]

Re: NCAA Football 10 Blog: Player Pursuit Angles

I 100% understand what you are trying to say. However, I think many people who have doubts are basing it on our experience with the product.

I know the people working on the game give it their all. But from my perspective it just seems as if EA has put fewer resources into this game compared to previous years.

Just my 2 cents.

Based on what?

Have you seen the previous blog entries? Fewer resources?

Look, I'm as skeptical as the next man . I'm from Philly...we're born skeptical. But even I am taking notice of the new work being put in.