Why I'm Done With NBA Basketball This Year: NBA 2K9

[Rocky]

Re: Why I'm Done With NBA Basketball This Year: NBA 2K9

he was saying the company keeps it ARCADE liek to appeal to the masses.

and MLB The Show doesnt do that.

Your not hitting an unrealistic amoutn of homeruns, or stealing bases, or getting an insane amount of hits, and triples, or striking out a zillion guys in the Show to appeal to a broader base...

why would i buy the show then, id just play The bigs 2.

Liek i was tellin my man... I want NBA 2k to be a sim as it was my favorite basketball game/favorite game period thru the years... but its not getting to that point, nor have steps been made in the last 4 years to get to that point...

That is OKAY...weve had Inside Drive, and now NBA Live appears to be going in that direction..

both sides can be happy... just like MLB 2k9 fans, vs The Show fans.

just because i say its "ARCADE" doesnt mean im saying its a terrible game, or that its bad.. i just cant personally get in to it as much as i prefer more realism than "video game"...

But what has NBA2K9 done to make the game more arcade? The flashy dunks problem was the worst in NBA2K7 and has gotten better each successive year.

I remember when the game first came out, people were having trouble getting to the rim and finishing with star players. People were having problems getting open shots. Having problems with the post game, etc.

You can say they made the game more accessible. With practice, you can now pull off those flashy dunks with Lebron. But hell, I don't even think they have made the game more accessible by today's standards (NHL 09 and MLB2K9 are the guilty culprits of this...making the game easier without fixing fundamental problems). I do think they have fundamental problems with defense and particularly passing that should be corrected.

[GSW]

Re: Why I'm Done With NBA Basketball This Year: NBA 2K9

Just wanted to clarify - I've tweaked MLB2K9 to play realistically so I get accurate hit/pitch counts. I don't enjoy slapping a zillion homeruns or stealing ten times a game. Nor do I enjoy 5pitch innings. It's 2K's approach to the game that's appealing. I don't know much about the accuracy of the batter walkups and stances, but I enjoy them and enjoy the various camera options they give. With NBA2K9, I've tweaked the sliders to give me realistic shooting percentages. I'm no different than DC in not wanting to see windmill dunks occur in traffic with frequency in games. But I'm not to the point where I'm counting the dunks to make sure they don't exceed the league average. I play the games because I want a realistic experience. But there are varying degrees between something being deemed SIM and something being deemed ARCADE imo, at least by the definition some are putting out there. I don't think it's an either/or issue.

i dont count the dunks or anything of that nature...nor would i ever do that.

but you cant call NBA 2k9 a "Simulation" game... its a realistic looking arcade game IMO... again nothing "WRONG" with that.. just as ive gotten older i want more...

I prefer a game that punishes me for playing unrealistically, and rewards me for playing the right way..(Ive played online vs people who are run and gun with the SPURS, the ROCKETS, Pistons, and basocally any other team...)

I want a game that rewards/punishes you for using that team those players in a capacity tht they play in in real life...not vice versa.

Thats what i mean when i say ARCADE.

NBA Jam, was over the top, but the basic premise is, every team was basically the SAME, just different player heads...Arcade...easy to pick up n play, very little depth.

so nba 2k9, yes you can tone down dunks and make realistic field goal percentages but the basic under lying truth is, you can pick the game up, having never played it and have succses...i dont want that i like a challenge/steep learning curve...and i want to feel rewarded when playing because i feel i have in-depth knowledge of the NBA game and its players.

Its not fun to me to get a rebound with jason richardson be able to cross up kobe then get a dunk...doesnt/wouldnt happen in real life at the frequency that it happens in the game, and un fortunatly id have to do extense tweaking to his ratings to fix it...(Arcade)

I want the game as is to clearly show that JR smith is not one of the best Sg's in the NBA because he can dunk and hit threes...hes inconsitent in real life and cant just get to the basket anytime he wants...in the game he can though (Arcade)

Thats just me though...

So as 2k is/was my favorite game i just want things that make it Arcade-like to go away, and be replaced by things that make it REALISTIC.

Im 100% positive if the game gets more relaistic people will still play it, even casuals...dont underestimate the casuals..Theres a reason why NBA Jam isnt being made anymore...It's not fun to ANYONE to play for long periods of time anymore.

[spankdatazz22]

Re: Why I'm Done With NBA Basketball This Year: NBA 2K9

NBA Jam, was over the top, but the basic premise is, every team was basically the SAME, just different player heads...Arcade...easy to pick up n play, very little depth.

so nba 2k9, yes you can tone down dunks and make realistic field goal percentages but the basic under lying truth is, you can pick the game up, having never played it and have succses...i dont want that i like a challenge/steep learning curve...and i want to feel rewarded when playing because i feel i have in-depth knowledge of the NBA game and its players.

Wow. I didn't get that you were reaching that much to make this "2K9 is ARCADE" point lol. So Live is ARCADE ('09 - I know people only want to talk about the future with the game)? It seems you're basically trying to fault the games for playing a certain way out of the box. I'm not a seamhead, but I can pick up The Show and have success - that doesn't make it less of a SIM. I may not be as knowledgeable as some here are regarding baseball, but I do have *some* knowledge of the game. If my daughter were to pick up The Show or NBA2K9 she'd likely have little to no success because she doesn't have a working knowledge of either sport. Really, trying to equate 2K9 to NBA Jam, NBA Street, or any other arcade game is ridiculous imo because you're trying to make an extreme distinction that a game is either/or SIM/ARCADE. I think that's why I didn't get where you were heading with The Show and your "Inside Drive/wait till next year for Live: are the only SIMs" comment.

[spankdatazz22]

Re: Why I'm Done With NBA Basketball This Year: NBA 2K9

See now this is a great argument. I feel Forza 2 is more sim than GTP5 in just about every aspect. There's some things it does physics-wise that I think is off that Forza seems to do right. But this is a good debate about simplay. There's no debate that NBA 2K9 has gone further away from sim and has embraced some major arcade elements.

I didn't mean to imply that Forza 2 wasn't a simulation, because I feel it is. But I felt Gran Turismo is even more detailed with it's car customization options; in how I've read the lead developer is crazy about getting every detail about the cars in the game right. There have been a couple of Forza's released in the time since there was even one GT.

As far as 2K9 embracing arcade elements, I don't feel so. I think they've tried to make the game more authentic, tried to further distinguish players via attributes and individual dribble/dunk packages, they've worked to make the entire game experience feel like a real game from a presentation standpoint, etc. Online still has it's issues, but it's so much more playable than it was last year. They were the first to do online leagues and to my knowledge I don't think there's another sports game more customizable than 2K9 is (or it's top 2-3, at least). I just don't get why the game gets condemned as a whole for the few things some people don't like

[GSW]

Re: Why I'm Done With NBA Basketball This Year: NBA 2K9

Wow. I didn't get that you were reaching that much to make this "2K9 is ARCADE" point lol. So Live is ARCADE ('09 - I know people only want to talk about the future with the game)? It seems you're basically trying to fault the games for playing a certain way out of the box. I'm not a seamhead, but I can pick up The Show and have success - that doesn't make it less of a SIM. I may not be as knowledgeable as some here are regarding baseball, but I do have *some* knowledge of the game. If my daughter were to pick up The Show or NBA2K9 she'd likely have little to no success because she doesn't have a working knowledge of either sport. Really, trying to equate 2K9 to NBA Jam, NBA Street, or any other arcade game is ridiculous imo because you're trying to make an extreme distinction that a game is either/or SIM/ARCADE. I think that's why I didn't get where you were heading with The Show and your "Inside Drive/wait till next year for Live: are the only SIMs" comment.

i didnt call nba 2k9 a replica of nba jams, i said its a arcade game like nba jam... because all teams can be used in a similar manner with similar succses.

its easy to pick up and play.

and yea nba live is arcade too, but im not talking about live...live however has verbally come out and say they want to be a simulation game...so atleast they are putting there necks on the line and trying to go for the gusto.

again..nothign wrong with nba 2k9, its a good game but it is an arcade game...not over the top like nba jam and nba street were...but that doesnt mean its not "arcade".

And id liek to see you play MLB The Show on Legend/Hall Of Fame mode (no it doesnt cheat) and have continued succses.

I get what youre doing man and i appluad you youre trying to stick up for a good game.. but thats not changing the fact that its still an arcade game... its a really realistic looking arcade game though... thats whats so frustrating.

[Rocky]

Re: Why I'm Done With NBA Basketball This Year: NBA 2K9

i didnt call nba 2k9 a replica of nba jams, i said its a arcade game like nba jam... because all teams can be used in a similar manner with similar succses.

its easy to pick up and play.

and yea nba live is arcade too, but im not talking about live...live however has verbally come out and say they want to be a simulation game...so atleast they are putting there necks on the line and trying to go for the gusto.

again..nothign wrong with nba 2k9, its a good game but it is an arcade game...not over the top like nba jam and nba street were...but that doesnt mean its not "arcade".

And id liek to see you play MLB The Show on Legend/Hall Of Fame mode (no it doesnt cheat) and have continued succses.

I get what youre doing man and i appluad you youre trying to stick up for a good game.. but thats not changing the fact that its still an arcade game... its a really realistic looking arcade game though... thats whats so frustrating.

I disagree.

If you play against people who play the game like it's a sim or hell, even the CPU even with all their cheese...I would say the game plays fairly sim like.

If you play it against gamers who play it like an arcade game, it's going to play arcade. That's every game.

[spankdatazz22]

Re: Why I'm Done With NBA Basketball This Year: NBA 2K9

i didnt call nba 2k9 a replica of nba jams, i said its a arcade game like nba jam... because all teams can be used in a similar manner with similar succses.

its easy to pick up and play.

and yea nba live is arcade too, but im not talking about live...live however has verbally come out and say they want to be a simulation game...so atleast they are putting there necks on the line and trying to go for the gusto.

lol I knew that was coming; just didn't know how it would be worded. Either way, you feel 2K9 is arcade and everything plays the same, fine. I'm enjoying the game and don't feel frustrated as you do. Personally I love the way 2K's been able to distinguish playing with Kobe/Lebron/Wade, Iverson/Nash/Paul, Garnett/Duncan/Nowitzki, etc., love the variation I get with games, and can't imagine how someone could say the teams essentially play the same. But to each his own.

[totalownership]

Re: Why I'm Done With NBA Basketball This Year: NBA 2K9

I disagree.

If you play against people who play the game like it's a sim or hell, even the CPU even with all their cheese...I would say the game plays fairly sim like.

If you play it against gamers who play it like an arcade game, it's going to play arcade. That's every game.

No actually that's not every game. Play forza like an arcade and you'll hopefully be limping back to the pits, while getting dusted by someone who plays it sim. Play The Show like arcade and you'll never see a hit and get worked from someone who's playing it sim. Play this game like an arcade and you win. You play this game sim and you lose, play arcade and you win. Of course it all depends on the teams you pick but thats the point. A person who plays like an idiot should lose no matter which team they pick. Not this game.

[Rocky]

Re: Why I'm Done With NBA Basketball This Year: NBA 2K9

No actually that's not every game. Play forza like an arcade and you'll hopefully be limping back to the pits, while getting dusted by someone who plays it sim. Play The Show like arcade and you'll never see a hit and get worked from someone who's playing it sim. Play this game like an arcade and you win. You play this game sim and you lose, play arcade and you win. Of course it all depends on the teams you pick but thats the point. A person who plays like an idiot should lose no matter which team they pick. Not this game.

1) That's not by design. That's people taking advantage of flaws in the game. The rapid, reaction times, pinpoint passes, some unstoppable ISO moves, and the inability to defend close baskets. Every game has people who take advantage of flaws or tricks in the game....The Show (after playing a top player), Fifa included.

If I want to play with the Spurs, should I really be forced to play a slow it down game just because they do so in real life. Sure, it shouldn't be advantageous to do so, but I clearly don't think you can force someone to play the way they don't want to play.

2) If you know the game well enough, you can beat 80% of arcade gamers by playing sim. Switching on defense, using the right combination of settings, and playing controlled basketball will beat hardened cheesers most of the time. That said, I would agree that it is too easy for arcade-like gamers to compete.

[DC]

Re: Why I'm Done With NBA Basketball This Year: NBA 2K9

Hmmm, read this - http://www.operationsports.com/forum...post2039432594

[GSW]

Re: Why I'm Done With NBA Basketball This Year: NBA 2K9

1) That's not by design. That's people taking advantage of flaws in the game. The rapid, reaction times, pinpoint passes, some unstoppable ISO moves, and the inability to defend close baskets. Every game has people who take advantage of flaws or tricks in the game....The Show (after playing a top player), Fifa included.

If I want to play with the Spurs, should I really be forced to play a slow it down game just because they do so in real life. Sure, it shouldn't be advantageous to do so, but I clearly don't think you can force someone to play the way they don't want to play.

2) If you know the game well enough, you can beat 80% of arcade gamers by playing sim. Switching on defense, using the right combination of settings, and playing controlled basketball will beat hardened cheesers most of the time. That said, I would agree that it is too easy for arcade-like gamers to compete.

the offensive moves you listed arent flaws..that is a game design...they want it to be easy to do a sweet looking crossover and get a layup and dunk. they want you to be able to pinpoint your passes, and make close shots, i mean come on...

after 3-4 years of the SAME "flaws" can we just agree the same "flaws" cant really exist and chop it up that that's the way it was meant to be?

and NO you cannot beat a "cheeser"/arcade like gamer 80% of the time playing SIM, at some point you will have to result to some arcade like tactics to secure the win.

Re: your spurs comment...no you shouldnt be "forced" to do anything, but you shouldnt have continued succcses if you chose to play that way...spurs are old, they would get tired way quick playing uptempo, and it would show on the defensive end, which would inevitably lead to more losses.

[DC]

Re: Why I'm Done With NBA Basketball This Year: NBA 2K9

Re: your spurs comment...no you shouldnt be "forced" to do anything, but you shouldnt have continued succcses if you chose to play that way...spurs are old, they would get tired way quick playing uptempo, and it would show on the defensive end, which would inevitably lead to more losses.

Agreed 800%

[spankdatazz22]

Re: Why I'm Done With NBA Basketball This Year: NBA 2K9

Hmmm, read this - http://www.operationsports.com/forum...post2039432594

And this was necessary why...? Is that all this boils down to - you needing to be told what you want to hear so you'll feel better? You create a billion threads on this board complaining about one thing or another (sometimes looking for stuff to complain about, like the free throw all nets thread), yet all it takes is for you to hear the right thing from a Live developer and you'll quietly wait to see what comes of it. Okay. I guess this whole perfectionist thing you have going has a little more behind it.

Somehow I get the feeling that even if there were a dev or two here telling the handful of you guys that need to be given some sense of consolation what you [supposedly] want to hear, it wouldn't be enough. And no, I'm not trying to "shut anyone up" - it's just tiring to read over and over, six months after the game released. Knock yourselves out complaining. Some of it's actually entertaining, like when behindshadows put a video up asking for comments, got negative feedback on his style of play (although of course, it's the game's fault!), so deleted everything. And is still in other forums talking about how the game sucks. The game's too arcade! All the teams play the same! Free throws are all net! I've learned as much about Live in the 2K forum as I've learned in visiting Live's own forum. Yep, I visit, but haven't posted there. Fortunately I don't have some burning need to tear the game down. Guess that's because I'm enjoying the one I am playing

[DC]

Re: Why I'm Done With NBA Basketball This Year: NBA 2K9

The importance is they are TELLING us where the series is going. That is refreshing. i WISH I could know where the 2K Series is going.

Let us just not communicate when it comes to bashing vs defending the game because it is getting old. I throw in the towel man because you seem to go out of your way to defend this title at any costs. You win man. I am done with it.

[GSW]

Re: Why I'm Done With NBA Basketball This Year: NBA 2K9

And this was necessary why...? Is that all this boils down to - you needing to be told what you want to hear so you'll feel better? You create a billion threads on this board complaining about one thing or another (sometimes looking for stuff to complain about, like the free throw all nets thread), yet all it takes is for you to hear the right thing from a Live developer and you'll quietly wait to see what comes of it. Okay. I guess this whole perfectionist thing you have going has a little more behind it.

Somehow I get the feeling that even if there were a dev or two here telling the handful of you guys that need to be given some sense of consolation what you [supposedly] want to hear, it wouldn't be enough. And no, I'm not trying to "shut anyone up" - it's just tiring to read over and over, six months after the game released. Knock yourselves out complaining. Some of it's actually entertaining, like when behindshadows put a video up asking for comments, got negative feedback on his style of play (although of course, it's the game's fault!), so deleted everything. And is still in other forums talking about how the game sucks. The game's too arcade! All the teams play the same! Free throws are all net! I've learned as much about Live in the 2K forum as I've learned in visiting Live's own forum. Yep, I visit, but haven't posted there. Fortunately I don't have some burning need to tear the game down. Guess that's because I'm enjoying the one I am playing

spank,

you are way too sensitive man, nobody is tearing the game down, ive repeadtly(sp?) stated the game is fine, its just that im looking for a more simulation based game not arcade.

its fun in limited doses (vs the computer) for what it is though..but the things that DC and I bring up would make it more simulation like (if thats the way they choose to go in the future)

It's not "complaining"...its asking.

are you honestly saying the things being brought up wouldnt make the game better?...are we both really that out of line?...are we lying?

I enjoy the game too sometimes, but I persoanlly want it to be more based in reality,strategic, simulation based... so im asking for that...

I have not bashed the game or said it sucked, since my post back when the game came out and iw as really frustrated and angry because my expectations were high...

I dont really get where you are coming from...but i will respect your desire to stay loyal to the cause though, and debate like this is always healthy and fun.