Madden NFL 10 Video: Pro-TAK Animation System

[Netherscourge]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

I actually think the latest backbreaker tackles looks the most violent and look like real collisions.

Because Backbreaker uses real physics and the hits are momentum-based. The faster you are running at a player prior to a tackle, the harder his body will react to the hit. And the contortions and body movements react to actual collision physics between the player models - which means the chances of seeing the exact same tackle multiple times are very slim.

In Madden and in 2K5 games, tackles are all predetermined animations with random results based on the game engine's parameters. The tackles are almost all motion captured and then tweaked on a PC before the game even loads - that's why you see a lot of the same tackles over and over again and the players fall down the same way over and over again.

[fourthreemafia]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

What I find funny about all this BackBreaker hype is how so many people crush Madden for not having certain features and wont "buy into Maddens hype" until they play it, yet I see people saying "I am so buying Backbreaker" even though the only thing BB has shown thus far is cool tackles and physics (although some are unrealstic), and crappy player models. Hardly anything else is known about the game, yet I already see people proclaiming it the Madden killer.

Can you smell the hypocrisy?

[RGiles36]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

Can you smell the hypocrisy?

Sure do!

What's equally as funny is ever since Backbreaker coined the "never see the same tackle twice" phrase or whatever the lingo is, mo-capped animations are all of a sudden the devil. Now mo-cap is not good enough. It's hilarious.

[Netherscourge]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

What I find funny about all this BackBreaker hype is how so many people crush Madden for not having certain features and wont "buy into Maddens hype" until they play it, yet I see people saying "I am so buying Backbreaker" even though the only thing BB has shown thus far is cool tackles and physics (although some are unrealstic), and crappy player models. Hardly anything else is known about the game, yet I already see people proclaiming it the Madden killer.

Can you smell the hypocrisy?

No - but I can smell the hope for something better.



Madden has a track record.

Backbreaker is a W.I.P. with a promise of a new beginning for football video games.


You call it hypocrisy. I call it desire for something original.

[roadman]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

No - but I can smell the hope for something better.



Madden has a track record.

Backbreaker is a W.I.P. with a promise of a new beginning for football video games.


You call it hypocrisy. I call it desire for something original.

Sounds like your not giving Madden 10 a chance based off track record alone. There is too much space and time left to make any preliminary decisions off both games.

[moylan1234]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

Sounds like your not giving Madden 10 a chance based off track record alone. There is too much space and time left to make any preliminary decisions off both games.

i'm giving them all a chance. plenty of room in my life for 3 football games

[Netherscourge]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

Sounds like your not giving Madden 10 a chance based off track record alone. There is too much space and time left to make any preliminary decisions off both games.

On the contrary - I'm more excited for this year's Madden then any Madden ever.

I love that Ian and Phil talk to us directly and even ask for our feedback on game-stuff they are tweaking in real-time on their dev PCs.

However, if you think Madden 10 is not going to be judged based on past Madden games then perhaps you are giving Madden 10 too much clearance?

Madden 06, 07, 08 and parts of 09 are all the same game with not many visually obvious upgrades. I know they'll rattle off a list of features they added year-to-year, but most of it's not tangible enough to notice - OR it's so tangible that you see it every single game repeatedly to the point of overkill.

I'm hoping for the best for Madden 10 - I think it'll be the best Madden yet. But I'm so skeptical that I can't just ignore whatever competition is out there.

We all have our own standards for what we want to see added to the game, but it's hard to meet those expectations. I understand that and that's why I have to be wary of hype surrounding the game.

When I see buzz words like "Presentation" and "Highlight Show" and "9-man Gang-Tackles" I get VERY interested. But I know very little about most of the buzz words at the moment, aside from 1 preview video. Hopefully they'll have new stuff at E3 to show off that I can examine.

Until then, I'm still on the fence.

[KyGamerLT]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

This madden is good enough for me for a year of hard work by a new team, I'm ready to get the cookout goin and playing madden on the flat. I hope Tampa Bay gets a zone blocking run scheme that works, maybe pro-tak will help this.

[roadman]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

On the contrary - I'm more excited for this year's Madden then any Madden ever.

I love that Ian and Phil talk to us directly and even ask for our feedback on game-stuff they are tweaking in real-time on their dev PCs.

However, if you think Madden 10 is not going to be judged based on past Madden games then perhaps you are giving Madden 10 too much clearance?

Madden 06, 07, 08 and parts of 09 are all the same game with not many visually obvious upgrades. I know they'll rattle off a list of features they added year-to-year, but most of it's not tangible enough to notice - OR it's so tangible that you see it every single game repeatedly to the point of overkill.

I'm hoping for the best for Madden 10 - I think it'll be the best Madden yet. But I'm so skeptical that I can't just ignore whatever competition is out there.

We all have our own standards for what we want to see added to the game, but it's hard to meet those expectations. I understand that and that's why I have to be wary of hype surrounding the game.

When I see buzz words like "Presentation" and "Highlight Show" and "9-man Gang-Tackles" I get VERY interested. But I know very little about most of the buzz words at the moment, aside from 1 preview video. Hopefully they'll have new stuff at E3 to show off that I can examine.

Until then, I'm still on the fence.

I understand how you feel. Last years game was boring to me and I gave up on it.

I just feel there is a major difference in this years Maddens vs the past years performances of Madden. Forum presence at OS and new leadership.

The old leadership of Madden never came around to the forums and that leads me to believe they were happy with the status quo. Ian is the new leader and seems to want to get Madden back to a more sim status based on his interaction with OS.

I'm not relying on the past when there is a new leadership change. It's just like at work, your old boss leaves, a new boss comes in and changes start to happen. It's not going to be same as the old boss.

Time will only tell.

[TheWatcher]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

I doubt that it will compete with Madden for sales just like All Pro football couldn't compete with Madden for sales. I just think too many people are going to pick up Madden for the NFL and then maybe get BB secondary because it offers a different experience.

I think BB will do worse than APF did sales-wise. At least APF had some sort of draw with the legends, this game has what? Natural Motion/tackling? Nice, but people who think the mass base will buy this game because of it (taking into account the fact that most of them probably have no idea what the hell it is and have never seen a video unlike us hardcore net news/video junkies) are kidding themselves. But considering that their production is so small, they'll still probably turn a helluva profit anyway.

As far as the game itself, it looks cool but I think people are setting themselves up for a big disappointment in what they're expecting. The tackles--while they do look cool--are terribly exaggerated and that alone should tell people that this game is more than likely not targeting the hardcore sim concept.

[TheWatcher]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

Sure do!

What's equally as funny is ever since Backbreaker coined the "never see the same tackle twice" phrase or whatever the lingo is, mo-capped animations are all of a sudden the devil. Now mo-cap is not good enough. It's hilarious.

Yep, and people will quickly learn why you still need MoCap. It's going to be funny to watch the tide turn on that one, lol.

[backbreaker]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

Damn, this is not about backbreaker the game, its about Pro Tak, and the videos scene thus far on gang tackling. It appears that the defender doesn't attack the ball carrier when he's engaged with another defender unless you the end-user selects him and initiate the hit stick. The cpu just runs and grabs a hold and start line dancing with the rest of the pile. LBzrule brought up backbreaker as a point of ref. of defenders attacking the ball carrier and they do, no one is comparing Madden the game to Backbreaker the game. Focus on the big picture here, I'm all for Pro Tak, but it needs to be about attacking the ball carrier again the method should be "moth to a flame instead of bees to honey".

So if you can watch those pro tak gang tackles and say in your heart of hearts thats how defenders tackle the ball carrier then you have never played on that side of the ball.

[LBzrule]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

Damn, this is not about backbreaker the game, its about Pro Tak, and the videos scene thus far on gang tackling. It appears that the defender doesn't attack the ball carrier when he's engaged with another defender unless you the end-user selects him and initiate the hit stick. The cpu just runs and grabs a hold and start line dancing with the rest of the pile. LBzrule brought up backbreaker as a point of ref. of defenders attacking the ball carrier and they do, no one is comparing Madden the game to Backbreaker the game. Focus on the big picture here, I'm all for Pro Tak, but it needs to be about attacking the ball carrier again the method should be "moth to a flame instead of bees to honey".

So if you can watch those pro tak gang tackles and say in your heart of hearts thats how defenders tackle the ball carrier then you have never played on that side of the ball.

Yeah, that's what I was going to post in another thread. The pile ups in Madden can look violent if the user comes in and does it. But the A.I tends to not be as violent. It's the whole user vs A.I discrepancy. I think the A.I needs to be more aggressive in its play.

[Valdarez]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

What I find funny about all this BackBreaker hype is how so many people crush Madden for not having certain features and wont "buy into Maddens hype" until they play it, yet I see people saying "I am so buying Backbreaker" even though the only thing BB has shown thus far is cool tackles and physics (although some are unrealstic), and crappy player models. Hardly anything else is known about the game, yet I already see people proclaiming it the Madden killer.

Can you smell the hypocrisy?

Hypocrisy? Seriously?

Madden has a track record

Exactly, and a very bad one for going on half a decade now. Couple that with the exclusive NFL license and what you see isn't hypocrisy, it's an informed decision on the part of the buyer.

I'll support any game that looks new and interesting and whose premise looks like something I would enjoy and especially a game that is pushing the boundaries of game play. I won't support a game that historically failed to live up to it's basic tenet, namely representing a realistic game of football. Again, not hypocrisy, if anything, that's living up to your beliefs.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

pro tak is way more advanced than that 2k5 crap, which only allows 3 player gang tackles just like madden 09. pro tak is simulating real gang tackles when the running back is hard to take down and it takes alot of defenders to get them down. im sure madden will have some violent tackles when there are only like 2 or 3 players in on the tackle and you can come in and hit stick a player being held up.

so you need to stop hating and get out of here with that weak *** 2k5 crap which by the way they run like ******s. 2k football is done, so go play some 2k5 and get out of here.

You're a moron.