Madden NFL 10 Video: Pro-TAK Animation System

[hmoob]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

Yep, and people will quickly learn why you still need MoCap. It's going to be funny to watch the tide turn on that one, lol.

How do you think they got the players in BB to run, jump, tackle, etc..? BB does use motion capture, just not canned animation for player interaction. When the players actually make contact with each other/Environment is when Euphoria kicks in.

Let me guess, you probably also think Euphoria is a physics engine, too?

Opinions means nothing if it's based on nothing.

[Pandemonium00]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

You know what it is? I swear, people are so used to staring at the same Madden animations, it's almost like it brainwashed a lot of people into what "realism" in a football game is. There isn't a single tackle in Madden that has looked realistic. Please prove me wrong.

[hmoob]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

You know what it is? I swear, people are so used to staring at the same Madden animations, it's almost like it brainwashed a lot of people into what "realism" in a football game is. There isn't a single tackle in Madden that has looked realistic. Please prove me wrong.

WOW!

This is exactly what I think when I hear people say "BB is exagerated/unrealistic." Dude, you took my thoughts and made em' into words.

Great post and so true.

[roadman]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

Hypocrisy? Seriously?

Exactly, and a very bad one for going on half a decade now. Couple that with the exclusive NFL license and what you see isn't hypocrisy, it's an informed decision on the part of the buyer.

I'll support any game that looks new and interesting and whose premise looks like something I would enjoy and especially a game that is pushing the boundaries of game play. I won't support a game that historically failed to live up to it's basic tenet, namely representing a realistic game of football. Again, not hypocrisy, if anything, that's living up to your beliefs.

I'll agree with your first paragraph but agree to disagree with the second paragraph. It's also debatable that a person is living in the past and not hoping for the future with the Madden Franchise.

I don't think, up to this point, there is anything important to me, that is similar to the past that Ian has showed us. That's why video games are subjective to each individual. The future looks bright in Ian's hands.

[TheWatcher]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

How do you think they got the players in BB to run, jump, tackle, etc..? BB does use motion capture, just not canned animation for player interaction. When the players actually make contact with each other/Environment is when Euphoria kicks in.

I'm aware of that. That was not the point I was leaning against, but I will clarify in a moment...

Let me guess, you probably also think Euphoria is a physics engine, too?

LOL.

Wrong.

Let me guess... you don't know me and you just assumed something about my knowledge which you actually don't know?

Opinions means nothing if it's based on nothing.

Yep, except what I am stating is fact so that's a moot point.

The point I am making about what BB is, and the same point I've made several times, is that the technology is far less nailed to predetermined set number of points like standard Motion capture, which is why you can get so much randomness in the tackling (something NM has touted an awful lot), and this is great... The fact that it's physics engine independent is great also and it sounds wonderful, but it's yet to be proven solid for a football game.

The advantage of traditional MoCap for football is that you can more intently forge animations that look like football.

There is really no debate here, because all one has to do is watch one video of BackBreaker and they can see all sorts of movements, reactions and hits that simply do not look like football, except for in its extreme cases. I laugh when people trash Madden's movements and then point to BB, when in fact a great deal of BB's movements and outcomes are totally arcade, too.

Has there been ONE solid wrap tackle shown yet? One solid group wrap? I haven't seen any of that from BB yet (and I doubt those things exist), but if you have a clip please post.

[Pandemonium00]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

I just wonder what you'll complain about once they release a wrap-up tackle video.

[speedy9386]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

Given the brief glimpses we have seen it looks cool but not realistic. I think the problem is that they definitely look to much like ragdolls. At 1:03 the guy is falling to the ground head first and it doesn't seem like he trying very hard to break his fall. Talk about a broken back. Also, it seems there will be no dragging defenders and fighting for yards. The defenders will either make the huge hit or simply glance off, no runners overpowering the defenders and breaking from their grasps.

Yes there is you have to see the whole video. It shows a guy running through another one and it also shows a runner stumbling over a person on the ground but using his hands to retain balance it's AWSOME. It also shows someone bracing themselves when getting flipped on their head by using his hand it's also AWSOME. You should check out their site.

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

i'm giving them all a chance. plenty of room in my life for 3 football games

I'll toast to this

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

Hypocrisy? Seriously?

Exactly, and a very bad one for going on half a decade now. Couple that with the exclusive NFL license and what you see isn't hypocrisy, it's an informed decision on the part of the buyer.

I'll support any game that looks new and interesting and whose premise looks like something I would enjoy and especially a game that is pushing the boundaries of game play. I won't support a game that historically failed to live up to it's basic tenet, namely representing a realistic game of football. Again, not hypocrisy, if anything, that's living up to your beliefs.

Couldn't agree anymore.

Nice post and very well said. I think the fact that Madden has done so poorly in the next gen error it opened the door for games like BackBreaker to be given a look as a alternative if Madden 10 fails.

I feel Madden 10 will be a much better game than 09, and hoping it will be a very sim game.
I will give it a chance as a rental and if it does deliver I will buy it.

Now if BackBreaker delivers sim gameplay which I doubt(Hope I'm wrong), but if the game play is sim, and the game is very customizable. It can cause trouble for Madden. I can see it.

The tackles look very good on that video clip. You want those hits that snaps the head back on the player your hitting or tackling. It gets you pumped!!!!!!!!

[bxgoods]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

I actually am not the impressed with Backbreaker as other people are.
It doesn't look like a sim, the tackles look cool, but very exageratted.
And the character models are awful. I don't see this doing more sales than APF.
Unless it comes out, that it has an insane franchise mode, or else its just going to be a rental game imo.

[TheWatcher]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

I just wonder what you'll complain about once they release a wrap-up tackle video.

If they do or if they don't, it has no bearing on this: I'll praise what's valid to praise and complain about what's valid to complain about just like I do with every other game, so no need to wonder.

[Valdarez]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

I actually am not the impressed with Backbreaker as other people are.
It doesn't look like a sim, the tackles look cool, but very exageratted.
And the character models are awful. I don't see this doing more sales than APF.

I don't get the exaggerated view. What you are seeing is real world physics in play coupled with the most realistic human model / reactions to date. Again, real world physics. Granted, they have shown us a few spectacular plays in their videos, but what you are seeing is what would happen if a real person were to do the same thing (or as close as any video game has come in real time... ever).

[TheWatcher]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

I actually am not the impressed with Backbreaker as other people are.
It doesn't look like a sim, the tackles look cool, but very exageratted.
And the character models are awful. I don't see this doing more sales than APF.
Unless it comes out, that it has an insane franchise mode, or else its just going to be a rental game imo.

Franchise mode isn't going to sell the game anyway. That doesn't even sell Madden and the fact that Head Coach tanked--a game that was basically franchise taken to the next level (and done very well I might add)--is a good indicator of how little bearing it has on the mass' buying decision, most of which couldn't possibly care less about pricing concessions and trading fake players for 30 virtual years...

[Valdarez]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

I feel Madden 10 will be a much better game than 09, and hoping it will be a very sim game.
I will give it a chance as a rental and if it does deliver I will buy it.

Same here, except for the buy part. I really like the direction Madden is heading, I absolutely love the fan interaction (EA Sports is top notch in this category IMHO), but I'll need to see it to believe it, and even then I'll probably just eBay it the first year or two, if not longer. It took them several years to lose me as a customer, it's going to take them several years to get me back (possibly longer due to the NFL exclusive license deal).

[TheWatcher]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

I don't get the exaggerated view. What you are seeing is real world physics in play coupled with the most realistic human model / reactions to date. Again, real world physics. Granted, they have shown us a few spectacular plays in their videos, but what you are seeing is what would happen if a real person were to do the same thing (or as close as any video game has come in real time... ever).

The fact that every tackle is an explosive one. While the occurences happen in real life singularly, they of course don't happen on every play and that's where BB is taking it... to the extreme.