Madden NFL 10 Video: Pro-TAK Animation System

[fourthreemafia]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

Hypocrisy? Seriously?

Okay...instead of just repeating what I said, how about telling me how that ISNT hypocritical?

It would be one thing if there was a ton of info out on BB and people were so excited, but I see a ton of people saying "Im not buying Madden until it proves itself", but go on to say "I cant wait until Backbreaker comes out"

That, my friend, is the very definition of a hypocrite.

I can understand BB has promise, and its fine that people are excited about it, but to say Madden has to prove itself, yet BB somehow does not...well, I dont know what to say to that.

And yes, Madden has a bad track record over the last few years, but BB has absolutely NO track record, and the company making it has NO track record of making football games. If it was a 2K sports game, itd be a little more understandable.

If people want to say BB is the Madden killer...fine, I just dont really want to see it here, at least until Madden 2010 AND Backbreaker come out in playable form and people can legitimately make that claim. Now, all it is is a ridiculous claim that cannot be backed up at all. I guess cooler tackles and physics is enough to win some people over, but there are no real info out on presentation, gameplay, franchise or online mode....all the things people on here are crushing Madden for.

So yes...SERIOUSLY....HYPOCRISY.

[Valdarez]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

Okay...instead of just repeating what I said, how about telling me how that ISNT hypocritical?

It would be one thing if there was a ton of info out on BB and people were so excited, but I see a ton of people saying "Im not buying Madden until it proves itself", but go on to say "I cant wait until Backbreaker comes out"

That, my friend, is the very definition of a hypocrite.

I can understand BB has promise, and its fine that people are excited about it, but to say Madden has to prove itself, yet BB somehow does not...well, I dont know what to say to that.

And yes, Madden has a bad track record over the last few years, but BB has absolutely NO track record, and the company making it has NO track record of making football games. If it was a 2K sports game, itd be a little more understandable.

If people want to say BB is the Madden killer...fine, I just dont really want to see it here, at least until Madden 2010 AND Backbreaker come out in playable form and people can legitimately make that claim. Now, all it is is a ridiculous claim that cannot be backed up at all. I guess cooler tackles and physics is enough to win some people over, but there are no real info out on presentation, gameplay, franchise or online mode....all the things people on here are crushing Madden for.

So yes...SERIOUSLY....HYPOCRISY.

I did explain it, in full. Quoting just part of my reply is more than a bit disingenuous.

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...its-wip-5.html

Exactly, and a very bad one (with regard to Madden's track record) for going on half a decade now. Couple that with the exclusive NFL license and what you see isn't hypocrisy, it's an informed decision on the part of the buyer.

I'll support any game that looks new and interesting and whose premise looks like something I would enjoy and especially a game that is pushing the boundaries of game play. I won't support a game that historically failed to live up to it's basic tenet, namely representing a realistic game of football. Again, not hypocrisy, if anything, that's living up to your beliefs.

As was pointed out Madden has a track record, backbreaker doesn't. BackBreaker is also showcasing a very new and highly attractive technology at the core of their game, Madden has ProTak, but it's no where near as sexy.

As for your claims about BB being a Madden killer, the only time I have seen that on this thread is from you.

[Valdarez]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

Found a new game play video of backbreaker. It's definitely not simulation.

http://www.walsh-designs.com/bfl/ps3/videos/GEDC1872.MOV

[Segagendude]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...there-yet.html


This should explain alot. Thanks, Ian!

[sooners52794]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

I don't agree about the consensus assessment, the responses thus far in this thread alone show case disparity on the that view.

There's a saying that perception is reality, and I think a lot of each of our view is perception based. Folks who have played Madden for years are going to perceive it differently than folks who have played 2K games, especially APF2K8 where momentum is very real.

I'll give you that there are some big hits in that video, because there are, especially at the start, but they aren't all spectacular.

i agree half the tackles in tacke alley were realistic looking tackles, and they all didnt look explosive... if so-and-so says that players wont be so agressive in the real game, then ill take his word, because i saw a few wrap ups and one where they just crashed (not like ragdolls) and i could imagine it looking pretty normal from a regular camera angle. i think that guy is wrong saying that its the consensus, but from reading his comments it liiks like his opinion isnt changing anytime soon, so i wouldnt bother..

[adembroski]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

I actually think the latest backbreaker tackles looks the most violent and look like real collisions.

Collisions look real, yeah, but I don't particularly like seeing my players leaving their feet for every tackle/broken tackle. The animation system looks promising, but in terms of fundamental football, it looks horrible.

[Valdarez]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

Collisions look real, yeah, but I don't particularly like seeing my players leaving their feet for every tackle/broken tackle. The animation system looks promising, but in terms of fundamental football, it looks horrible.

They aren't leaving their feet every time. That camera angle (from the foot view) just gives the appearance. Watch the video I posted again and you'll see.

[sooners52794]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

Okay...instead of just repeating what I said, how about telling me how that ISNT hypocritical?

It would be one thing if there was a ton of info out on BB and people were so excited, but I see a ton of people saying "Im not buying Madden until it proves itself", but go on to say "I cant wait until Backbreaker comes out"

That, my friend, is the very definition of a hypocrite.

I can understand BB has promise, and its fine that people are excited about it, but to say Madden has to prove itself, yet BB somehow does not...well, I dont know what to say to that.

And yes, Madden has a bad track record over the last few years, but BB has absolutely NO track record, and the company making it has NO track record of making football games. If it was a 2K sports game, itd be a little more understandable.

If people want to say BB is the Madden killer...fine, I just dont really want to see it here, at least until Madden 2010 AND Backbreaker come out in playable form and people can legitimately make that claim. Now, all it is is a ridiculous claim that cannot be backed up at all. I guess cooler tackles and physics is enough to win some people over, but there are no real info out on presentation, gameplay, franchise or online mode....all the things people on here are crushing Madden for.

So yes...SERIOUSLY....HYPOCRISY.

i think a majority of people will buy it for a change of pace, and thats really it. im puzzled myself of how backbreaker could even have a franchise lol, but im not a developer... and another thing, those things should already be SOLID when theyre modes based on the league that theyre trying to simulate! its not hypocricy when people want to buy a game to have a change of pace (that might not even be 60 dollars) because the things that they want changed are for the most part there. its not hypocricy when people want to rent a game like madden first to get a feel for it and see if its the expierence that they want before buying it because theyve been disapointed before, and to buy another game because theyve seen enough to be satisfied already, and dont have as high standards because its just a change of pace.

~~~~~~~

For example, youre an nfl team and you want to pick up two free agent rb's. runningback a is a solid backup, with adequate speed and lots of strength, and hes likely gonna get the job done, which is going to be get 5-10 carries a game. you sign him right away, right? then you have another runningback, a former first round pick who has had several mvp worthy seasons, but the past few years has torn both acl's and is just about done rehabbing. his future could go either way: he could come in and have a 1200+ yd season and his knees could get stronger than they were before. or he could tear both acl's again and be set back again and not be worth the money you spend. heres what i do-i take rb A because while he might not have as much upside, hes going to do his job that you expect, which might differ for teams but is generally the same-not starting. i would then work out runningback b and see if hes worth the money (like a demo for madden or renting madden, but you cant rent players lol) and if hes as good as it appears just because his knees appear to be healed. if hes not what i expec, i dont sign him (meaning another sad year of ps2 madden). or he does an excellent job, and his knees are as strong as i think they are, so i make the big investment of my hard earned 60 dollars in him and i am once again satisfied about buying 360 over ps3 despite previous dissapointments in madden and ncaa football and ps3 having arguably the greatest sports game ever concieved, you know....

[TheWatcher]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

TheWatcher, you claim to be objective but you've said nothing but bad things about BB when you (and all of us) have basically seen nothing about the game.

Nonsense.

Go back and read. I've said several times since I've been here that the tech being used for BB is great and that the game looks great. I've said it in this thread as well. But I am not going to sit here and profess blind love for a game that hasn't proven a damn thing yet because it hasn't had a single release yet. I'll let you do that because clearly that's your agenda.

You should be neutral towards them. Yet, you ride on the p*nis of a game that has failed you 4 years in a row.

I smell fanboy.

Edit: Lol, I read the post again and realized you were just spewing a bunch of BS based on things you made up in that head of yours. Unbelievable.

What the hell are you talking about? That's such a classless statement, on top of it being incredibly inaccurate.

Have you read my signatures before my latest one up now? Did you read ANYTHING about what I did at community day? Obviously, you did not. Rather than running your mouth, take a second and READ for a change. If you had actually taken the time to read rather than running your mouth, you would know that I am a rabid 2K fan. I have absolutely hated Madden since after the 1998 game. I didn't get screwed for 4 years because 08 and 09 are the only Madden games I've purchased, and I rented 09 first because 08 was terrible!

You have no clue as to what you're talking about concerning me, but you insist on running your mouth as if you do

[TheWatcher]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

Lol, you'll support Madden to no end, even though it screwed you 4 times, in the a**. You're just really uneducated in a lot of things.

"Uneducated on a lot of things"

LOL. I think anyone who has followed my posting or who knows me personally would disagree with your incredibly incorrect and absurd statement. But I'll let you believe that lie if it makes you feel better. Not a single thing I said concerning BB in that post was wrong, and the reason I can be 100% sure of it is because a lot of it comes from NM themselves. But now I guess THEY'RE wrong too and YOU'RE right? LOL. Like I said kid, keep believing lies.

Also, how am I "supporting Madden to no end?" Are you serious? You need to go ask somebody because you are completely wrong. You don't know what you're talking about. Again, stop running your mouth for a second on things you have no clue about concerning me, do a search, and read my posts about Madden. Unless you simply refuse to believe the truth you will think differently about me "supporting Madden to no end". I mean, the very idea of that is laughable, lol.

Anyway, I'm gonna say peace to you now because you're on my ignore list. I wish to have intelligent, mature conversations and for the most part I do get that here at OS. I don't come to get into BS and you clearly have a different agenda.

[TheWatcher]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

Valderez, just an FYI on who you are dealing with here. People take so many assumptions on the net.

The Watcher is avid 2k fan. He was one of the people that were chosen by Ian for CD. Ian selected a great person with constructive criticism of past Maddens.

The Watcher brought a game of 2k5 with him and announced to everyone that if Madden 10 wasn't as good as 2k5, he would start playing 2k5. 2k5 never came out of the case.

The Watcher can verify that with me when he returns, but that was the story that was told on CD.

The Watcher , to my knowledge, is not a fan of past Maddens.

Just an FYI.

All of that is true Road, and thanks for speaking on that

How did I suddenly become labeled as a fanboy? Did all of my countless posts trashing the problems in Madden disappear? Did I suddenly become a different guy? LOL. Are these people serious?

I think what may be clouding their judgement is that I also say something constructive in my posts about Madden rather than just exploding without explaining anything. It would be great if they tried that approach, too.

[tennesseetitans]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

I'm probably going to get Back Breaker just because of the technology under the hood (I love that kind of stuff), but having now seen the 11 on 11 running and passing game in motion, I can easily say that Back Breaker is not the simulation type game that I really want.

In fact, I'm not even sure why people are comparing M10 to BB. They are truly very different games. This year's Madden, more so than past years, is attempting to realistically portray the sport of football, as it is seen on the field in real life. BB is obviously putting more emphasis on the casual perception of football (big plays and big hits). There's room on the market for both, but they are not even in the same genre.

[hmoob]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

"The Watcher brought a game of 2k5 with him and announced to everyone that if Madden 10 wasn't as good as 2k5, he would start playing 2k5. 2k5 never came out of the case."

He probably picked up the game for 50 cents at Gamestop on the way there.

[TheWatcher]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

He probably picked up the game for 50 cents at Gamestop on the way there.

^^^ Caught this while logging back in (unfortunately)... and there you go again running your mouth not knowing what you're talking about, LOL.

FYI, I created the NFL 2K5 Enhancement Pak back in 2006 (go read up on it) which was featured at the 2K Website for a quite a while and was all over the net. I also ran a board for it, and had a mail-in memory card service for loading the pak files for users from which I garnered literally thousands of users in the U.S. and several foreign countries (which actually surprised me).

You just don't know what you're talking about!

Dude, for your own sake, why don't you just give it up?

EDIT: I should just mention again that I cannot read anymore of your posts, and only caught this one because when you're not logged in the IL function is not in effect.

[TheWatcher]

Re: EA's Pro Tak needs ump I know its WIP....

Actually I think we should go over each hit, because your statement is obscenely incorrect. The outcome look the same? As if his weight doesn't matter? That's the entire purpose of Euphoria. Are you sure your not watching tackling in Madden by mistake? In the IGN video I posted, the offensive player falls forward based on real world physics.

At :30 he gets hit and continues forward until hit again
At :32 again, he falls forward
At :37 seconds he falls forward (clearly)

<EMBED src=http://videomedia.ign.com/ev/ev.swf width=433 height=360 type=application/x-shockwave-flash flashvars='object_ID=958004&downloadURL=http://xbox360movies.ign.com/xbox360/video/article/866/866661/BB_TackleAlley_041508_flvlowwide.flv&allownetworki ng="all%"'></EMBED>
Backbreaker at IGN.com

The only time he's not falling forward is when there is a clear / solid hit to the midsection, at which point both players stop, but movement is still a little forward, as would be expected.

You're missing the point. Falling forward is not the benchmark on how each outcome should be, lol. There is also a big difference between falling forward because you plowed through and used weight to do it, and being blown up forward, lol.

Further, there was no fight in the two-man gang tackles where he went backwards. He got hit, he went down, play over. You're telling me that a pro back goes down like that on a regular basis? C'mon.

The point is that the level of contact is extreme. You can attempt to do those things in other football games, but for the most part the ballcarriers reaction will not be a hard fall, being blown up every time. You cannot me tell that this isn't the case in that video. You've gotta be kidding me.

Try that in 2K5 or APF. You can't, and if you do the ballcarriers reaction will not be even nearly the same. There is a fight taking place especially in APF and that's pretty damn realistic. These tackles in BB look cool, but the blowing up is all extreme scenario stuff. All the stuff in the air... it's like they're part acrobats, lol.

Did you even watch the entire video?

Yes, I've watched it many times over the past year and I disagree with you on how it translates. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Your comments seem to be based off just a couple of the tackles.

Nope. My comments are based on all of them.

As far as the NFL goes, I would wager it looks a lot more violent the closer you are to the action. I'm sure some of the guys who padded up can attest to that.

That can be said of any level of football. But at the same time, what's happening in every tackle in BB does not happen on every tackle in real life. BB is taking extremes and making them the norm. If that happened in real life on every tackle, Sportscenter would be 12 hours long, lol.

Out of curiosity, do you honestly think Madden '09 accurately represeted the type of hitting/tackling you see on Sunday?

I think as of 09 it needs a lot of work and the game as a whole hasn't been what we see on Sunday's. Backbreaker looks like it's in the same boat, it just looks smoother.

The lack of momentum in Madden has nothing to do with controls. It has do with how players move, pick up speed, change direction, finish out runs, and with relation to this thread - make tackles. There's absolutely no feel of momentum in Madden. If Madden is all you have played, then I can understand why you perceive there to be such a disparity between Madden and the videos we have on backbreaker, because they are literally night and day.

Wow. Where have you been? I think everybody knows that I'm a MASSIVE 2K fan. If anything, I have less of a point of reference with Madden over the past 10 years than I do with any other football games that have come out in that period.

Also, I'm going to have to disagree with the notion that control has nothing to do with momentum and all of that other stuff, and that may be because we have a different definition of what that means. I know for a fact that control feel can be modified in development which is what they've done for Madden 10. While there are plenty of new animations, a lot of things have been modified and along with that must be mods to response times... and you'll see what I mean when you play the game this season. They've done a very good job this year.

Nothing is perfect in any game, but the advancement with Madden is there this year.