Three Things MVP 05 Still Does Better

[jim416]

Re: Three Things MVP 05 Still Does Better

A better baseball game is what we are all after. I don't think the writer dissed the Show that badly at all.

He got some facts wrong, just wondering about this being in this forum.

If we can't start threads comparing MLB2k and The Show, why this one? If you or I would have put a comparison here it probably would have been closed.

[pfunk880]

Re: Three Things MVP 05 Still Does Better

He got some facts wrong, just wondering about this being in this forum.

If we can't start threads comparing MLB2k and The Show, why this one? If you or I would have put a comparison here it probably would have been closed.

Yeah, this is the thing I don't get.

To throw in my two cents, though, after one game I have already put MVP to bed. I saw so much stuff in my game last night that I never did on MVP... longer pitch counts, longer at bats, more walks... and this was all on Veteran with default sliders. Was MVP a great game? Certainly, and I still would be playing it now if the LCD TV I got didn't have lag issues with my PS2. But The Show completely destroys MVP, no doubt in my mind.

[Acedeck]

Good article. I agree with a lot, and I disagree with a lot.

The hitting is both good and bad in MVP, in my eyes. It's good because you have the control, as you mention, but I can't stand the lack of location hitting. When the ball goes outside, goes a little down and in, I don't want to strictly swing based on my arm motion. I want t swing based on location.

I really loved the hitter's eye in MVP. I do wish they brought that to The Show. It's far more real than guess pitch, though I don't use guess pitch. I WISH they'd implement this feature.

Baserunning was better in MVP, I agree there.

The Dynasty/Owner mode was very good in MVP, though the hot dog prices and such go a little beyond what I care about in a sports game. I really got a kick out of the stadium builder feature, where you could slowly upgrade your new stadium over the course of time, as you *earned* money (not taking out a loan from the piggy bank).

[hmoob]

Re: Three Things MVP 05 Still Does Better

I remember playing MVP 05. I had about 20 Hrs a game. Fun to play it was, but realistic or sim it's not. I admit I haven't played MLB 09 or played a baseball game since MVP 05, but judging from the ratings and the community feedback, 09 should easily topple MVP 05.

[bsb13]

Re: Three Things MVP 05 Still Does Better

I remember playing MVP 05. I had about 20 Hrs a game. Fun to play it was, but realistic or sim it's not. I admit I haven't played MLB 09 or played a baseball game since MVP 05, but judging from the ratings and the community feedback, 09 should easily topple MVP 05.

I know that MVP was definitely a homerun happy game, but if you are hitting 20 a game....you must be playing on a lower difficulty level. I'm pretty good with the sticks, and I never came close to hitting 20 homeruns a game on the MVP difficulty level.

[hmoob]

Re: Three Things MVP 05 Still Does Better

I know that MVP was definitely a homerun happy game, but if you are hitting 20 a game....you must be playing on a lower difficulty level. I'm pretty good with the sticks, and I never came close to hitting 20 homeruns a game on the MVP difficulty level.

I didn't literally hit 20 Hrs every game, I guess it's an expression to say "a lot." My bad on that.

[Glenn33]

I don't think MVP did anything better. That game was overated.

[k_bassuka]

Re: Three Things MVP 05 Still Does Better

I don't think MVP did anything better. That game was overated.

And this is even more overated than MVP. This game is even worst than last year The Show (Glitch) version.

[bsb13]

Re: Three Things MVP 05 Still Does Better

I didn't literally hit 20 Hrs every game, I guess it's an expression to say "a lot." My bad on that.

lol, I took you literally. Thats the internet for you I guess.

[Imnus]

Re: Three Things MVP 05 Still Does Better

Some tips on hitting:
* Whether your PCI is inside or outside does influence the direction of the hit.
* Whether your PCI is over or under the pitch influences flyballs and groundballs. There are also more factors than that.
* The right analog stick is a legacy feature for people who want to use it. When you use it, there's a contact penalty. Almost everyone uses the left analog to control hitting.
* The same goes for guess pitch, it's for people who don't want to use pure zone hitting. The game is designed for pure zone hitting, guess pitch is simply an alternative to that. That said, there's a lot of deep strategy to guess pitch for those who enjoy it.

All four of the above have been in the game since PS1 days in one form or another, which long predates any of the games being discussed. I'm sure earlier baseball games have had these concepts as well. I just wanted to clarify some factual errors being discussed, this isn't a comment on anything else.

A common theme over the years is that every person would enjoy the game more if the features they didn't use were taken out. By the same token, every person would enjoy the game less if the features other people didn't use were taken out. Someday in the future of gaming it'll be great when we can ship custom tailored games, or more "flavors" of the same game. Unfortunately often those efforts produce quality issues by dividing efforts.

One reason for the Strategy Guide this year is because it's easy to jump to conclusions on how things work. For example Guess pitch has long penalized for incorrect guesses, but until it showed up in the Strategy Guide (and even after for a while) almost everyone thought it was a freebie. There's no particular reason to think of it as a freebie, but that's how urban legends combined with the internet work. The same about the classic vs. meter debate. Speculation easily wins over facts on the internet.

If you take a look at the very last page of the Strategy Guide, it reveals some subtle insights on hitting. I think it's a lot more fun to explore the game and discover these things on your own than to simply be told in a guide, and there's a lot more to hitting both in the game and real life. It ties into why real life pitchers pitch the way they do and favor certain zones with certain pitches. A lot of strategies in real life work in the game for this reason.

Why do you walk AI batters? You certainly don't want to, but you do. It's actually a complex question because it progressively happens over 4-10 pitches, and the answer reveals that there are a lot of things happening strategically on different levels. Just to name one example.

Hitting is definitely not just about pitch location and where the batter tries to swing at. Just to name one example, when the batter swings too early he can't help but roll his wrists and this induce more groundballs. Pitchers further exploit this by locating pitches away, which often end up being pulled foul by the batter for a chopper. Look at 6-way spray charts (Lft-Cen-Rt with FB-GB) and it's obvious what's happening. You can look at it through stat splits, by watching an early swing in slow motion, or asking any hitting coach. Better yet, look at the assymetries of how pitchers pitch and find out why. This and every other concept is why.

The point is the batter can be aiming dead center on the ball, but because he was too early he will always swing over it if aiming dead on. This would happen even if the hitter knew exactly where the pitch was going to land but not when. There are no batters in MLB who have a flat swing from beginning to end, and that is exactly why hitting is not just about pitch location and where the batter aims.

Each of the items listed in the Analysis Legend correspond to a key principle like this, and there are a lot more not yet described. In that regard, it's a lot like real life because there aren't any books that cover even half the mechanics of hitting. Some of the best ones were written 50 years ago!

I hope you guys put a really good gameplay tutorial next year so I don't have to read about people complaining about the game just because they suck at it, and don't give a damm about trying to learn the mechanics, just want the game to play the way they want.

Look for the Training mode in Pro Evolution Soccer so you guys get an idea how to do it.

[MrOctober430]

Re: Three Things MVP 05 Still Does Better

After playing the Show for the first time today, I felt like MVP05 was so far ahead of it's time. I just hate the pitching in the Show & baserunning is awful, but that's just me.

Still will give it a chance since theres no other baseball games out there.

[Bumble14]

Re: Three Things MVP 05 Still Does Better

He got some facts wrong, just wondering about this being in this forum.

If we can't start threads comparing MLB2k and The Show, why this one? If you or I would have put a comparison here it probably would have been closed.

What facts did I get wrong Jim? Brian attempted to say that PCI mimicked MVP 05's left stick 1:1 influence- this is flat out not true. PCI may work to influence the direction of the ball on certain pitches (even Brian admits that "there are other factors" that go into where you hit the ball besides PCI influence), but MVP would attempt to take the ball the direction you wanted on every pitch. If you wanted to try and pull an outside pitch, no matter how ill advised, at least you had the option to try in MVP- your batters arms through the zone were completely under your control. There is a huge difference between the two hitting models, and my article was pointing out that I preferred the control MVP gave me at the plate.

I don't really have an issue with people knocking the article, but trust me when I say that there was a lot of research and play testing that occurred before it was written. My facts are not incorrect- Brian is incorrect by making users believe left stick (pci) influence in The Show is true 1:1 swing influence like in MVP.

[SoxChamp]

Re: Three Things MVP 05 Still Does Better

I hope you guys put a really good gameplay tutorial next year so I don't have to read about people complaining about the game just because they suck at it, and don't give a damm about trying to learn the mechanics, just want the game to play the way they want.

Look for the Training mode in Pro Evolution Soccer so you guys get an idea how to do it.

Do you honestly think that the people who are complaining about hitting are going to take the time to use a tutorial or training mode? It's much easier to run to a message board and gripe and complain.

[Imnus]

Re: Three Things MVP 05 Still Does Better

Do you honestly think that the people who are complaining about hitting are going to take the time to use a tutorial or training mode? It's much easier to run to a message board and gripe and complain.

Yes, you're right. But if you've ever played PES Training mode you'll see that it's much more appealing than the guide in The Show.

[Imnus]

Re: Three Things MVP 05 Still Does Better

What facts did I get wrong Jim? Brian attempted to say that PCI mimicked MVP 05's left stick 1:1 influence- this is flat out not true. PCI may work to influence the direction of the ball on certain pitches (even Brian admits that "there are other factors" that go into where you hit the ball besides PCI influence), but MVP would attempt to take the ball the direction you wanted on every pitch. If you wanted to try and pull an outside pitch, no matter how ill advised, at least you had the option to try in MVP- your batters arms through the zone were completely under your control. There is a huge difference between the two hitting models, and my article was pointing out that I preferred the control MVP gave me at the plate.

I don't really have an issue with people knocking the article, but trust me when I say that there was a lot of research and play testing that occurred before it was written. My facts are not incorrect- Brian is incorrect by making users believe left stick (pci) influence in The Show is true 1:1 swing influence like in MVP.

I don't think Brian ever say that The Show tried to mimick how swing influence worked in MVP, he just said how it worked on it's own, it's not trying to be like MVP that's why you'll never like it.

While you hope they implement those MVP features you prefer, I really hope they never will. And I could too write an article "with a lot of previous research", and demostrate how everything on The Show is so much better than MVP except fielding.