Madden NFL 10 Video: Pro-TAK Animation System

[spankdatazz22]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Video: Pro-TAK Animation System

Wasn't catching feelings, just giving you and V a hard time. It's all out of fun man...But you guys are die-hard 2k don't be denying that though. V denies it and lies through his teeth, but I know you'll admit it.

I saw you spraying the logic on in your post as well, but you didn't chime in, until someone said,"Ian is talking smack about 2k". And you came running! lol..

Either way I'm just messing with you man....and keep the badge...lol

No offense taken. I had no problems with you calling me out; I had a problem with you hiding behind humor to mask your inability to comment on anything I said. And of course still, not a peep from you on anything I actually said. At least the guy below did:

I hesitated in commenting b/c then I know it leaves the door open for me to criticized as coming to Tiburon's defense. But I just don't agree with the logic. I'm sure that you, me, and everyone else has criticized EA for their shotty OL/DL play over the past few years if not longer. As we're all aware, 2K is the measuring stick in this area. Well now they're (EA) taking steps to address it, and then comes the 'well it's about time' sentiments. Do you see what I'm getting at here? It's bad enough that Madden went so long without addressing this area. We criticized them unmercifully for ignoring this core component of football. And now that they are recognizing that it needs an overhaul and taking the steps to improve it, we belittle them for drawing a comparison to 2K (the measuring stick) and trying to surpass them. The important thing to me is that they're addressing it; not that it's taken too long for EA to catch up.

A lot of people don't recognize this now, but I've always been a HUGE 2K fan. NFL2K5 (I still play almost daily), APF2K, NBA2K (a fave), you name it, I've probably played it. But improvement is improvement in my eyes.

This is how you articulate a view Shadows. Anyways...

I see your point, but for me given the situation it's hard to say APF/2K5/last gen Madden/NCAA are valid measuring sticks. Anymore than I would say a valid measuring stick for baseball games should be MVP, or a valid measuring stick for basketball games today is Inside Drive. If we were legitimately able to compare the last gen and older games with these newer next gen games then that's a problem. There's always going to be merit in improving; I've never debated that. I just don't think every improvement merits backflips and breakdancing.

I've defended Tiburon when people attribute the game's state to laziness, or try to blame everything on one man (Ortiz). It's not the effort that gets criticized, it's the result. In my first post in this thread I praised what looked like a noticeable improvement in the lineplay. But my standard isn't "just match or come close to what these older games were doing [years ago]" because those games weren't perfect - and if things progressed as they might've under normal circumstances those games would be a lot further along than they were then. There has to be realistic expectations, obviously. If Madden was in such a bad place that it's unrealistic/impractical to expect certain things from the game, then in theory the same thing would be true of being realistic/practical with the praise and/or criticism. It's not that Tiburon is "just now" taking steps to address the game's issues - they've always attempted to address the game's issues. Yes, there are going to be head-scratching things like goofy QB animations that go curiously unaddressed for far too long a time. But imo what we're usually debating are the results of what they've tried to improve, not that they're not trying to improve

[TheWatcher]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Video: Pro-TAK Animation System

I hate to say this again, but I must... As fantastic as these shots look, if we never get them in-game (auto-replays) the impact will not be there.

When I see that auto-replay from beta at some point when the gp videos hit, I'll have my answer... I hope it's nice and field-level.

[Bgamer90]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Video: Pro-TAK Animation System

I've defended Tiburon when people attribute the game's state to laziness, or try to blame everything on one man (Ortiz). It's not the effort that gets criticized, it's the result. In my first post in this thread I praised what looked like a noticeable improvement in the lineplay. But my standard isn't "just match or come close to what these older games were doing [years ago]" because those games weren't perfect - and if things progressed as they might've under normal circumstances those games would be a lot further along than they were then. There has to be realistic expectations, obviously. If Madden was in such a bad place that it's unrealistic/impractical to expect certain things from the game, then in theory the same thing would be true of being realistic/practical with the praise and/or criticism. It's not that Tiburon is "just now" taking steps to address the game's issues - they've always attempted to address the game's issues. Yes, there are going to be head-scratching things like goofy QB animations that go curiously unaddressed for far too long a time. But imo what we're usually debating are the results of what they've tried to improve, not that they're not trying to improve

That's true, and even though you said people use David as an excuse, I'm going to use him as an example now.

I made a thread a few months back showing the differences in the stuff that was being said about the game when David was in charge and now (w/ Ian and Phil).

Here's the things that were hyped about Madden 07 in a Madden 07 DVD:
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><tr><td style="background-image: url(/vBulletin/images/quotes/04.gif); width: 37px; height: 1px;" width="37">
</td> <td style="background-image: url(/vBulletin/images/quotes/00.gif); width: 100%; height: 1px;" width="100%"> *Different Play Styles to use / tips from Madden Challenge Competitors (some of which were practically glitches)

*Highlight Stick moves (some of which were said by Ian though remember, he wasn't in the position he's in now and therefore didn't have nearly as much impact with the game; a lot of the things he says with sort of a mini frown lol)

*Lead Blocking Control

*Live Opponent (letting you play with real human opponents in your Franchise via xbox live)

*Madden Gamer Level (quote by Ryan Ferwerda, assitant producer of Madden 07: "You can say to someone I'm going to beat you by seven touchdowns... it adds a whole new dimension to the game where you are making sure that you don't only win the game but you also scratch off things that you said you were going to do before the game.")

*David Ortiz (in response to meeting expectations):
"Some things may not work out but we don't get upset... we always have next season to polish things up."

*Superstar Mode

*Bench Press and 40-yard dash mini games:
Quote by Bonnie Morales, Assistant Producer of Madden 07-
"What makes these stand out so much is that they get away from traditional gameplay mechanics and focus more on having fun."
</td></tr></tr></tbody></table>

Do you see the difference? The team making the game always had the mindset of fixing the game's issues (as you've said), it's just that the head determined what got in and what was of the most importance. And it shows that the rest of the team didn't like what David gave the "okay go" to since just about all of his features (ring builder, player weapons, etc.) will be gone in Madden 10.

[djKianoosh]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Video: Pro-TAK Animation System

If the dev'rs are still reading this, I hope we get a gang tackle that looks like this:

[djordan]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Video: Pro-TAK Animation System

I made some gifs from the video...

Brandon Jacobs run


Thomas Jones Run


Stephen Jackson run


RB for Ravens


Brandon Jacobs TD Run


Stephen Jackson TD Run


MJD Run

[Bgamer90]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Video: Pro-TAK Animation System

^Sweet

[backbreaker]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Video: Pro-TAK Animation System

I know Ian says its in tunning the tackling side of pro tak. Now look at the Brandon Jacobs gif the first tackle engages and just grab from the side and holds on and BJ comes to a complete stop. This is what I'm talking about and its clearly visible in the gif.

[NYyankz225]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Video: Pro-TAK Animation System

Few things I noticed:

Players lowering their head for impact. Every single shot shows this. These are the "transition" animations I was talking about so that the jump from running to interaction isn't so jarring.

Camera flashes in the audience only happen on TDs / big events. Look at the Jacobs TD gif that was just posted. You'll see the crowd before the TD and there are no flashes. When he scores and spikes the ball you'll see camera flashes. This means that they must have built some more audience logic to react at the proper times. Hopefully this includes the sounds so that the crowd is more aware of the game situation.

Pro Tak animations are smooth as butter. I'm not sure if Valdarez would agree but these animations look very realistic imo.

Player momentum seems to be drastically improved. Still definitely could be better, but Ian said this is an area he'll be working closely on with the remaining time he has. Movements seem deliberate and "physics based".

[NYyankz225]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Video: Pro-TAK Animation System

I know Ian says its in tunning the tackling side of pro tak. Now look at the Brandon Jacobs gif the first tackle engages and just grab from the side and holds on and BJ comes to a complete stop. This is what I'm talking about and its clearly visible in the gif.

Ian has said the acceleration has not been factored into Pro Tak yet. Meaning the speed of players before the interaction (ie RB running full speed) does not factor into the contact with the defender. We'll see how that's fixed.

[djordan]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Video: Pro-TAK Animation System

Few things I noticed:

Players lowering their head for impact. Every single shot shows this. These are the "transition" animations I was talking about so that the jump from running to interaction isn't so jarring.

Camera flashes in the audience only happen on TDs / big events. Look at the Jacobs TD gif that was just posted. You'll see the crowd before the TD and there are no flashes. When he scores and spikes the ball you'll see camera flashes. This means that they must have built some more audience logic to react at the proper times. Hopefully this includes the sounds so that the crowd is more aware of the game situation.

Pro Tak animations are smooth as butter. I'm not sure if Valdarez would agree but these animations look very realistic imo.

Player momentum seems to be drastically improved. Still definitely could be better, but Ian said this is an area he'll be working closely on with the remaining time he has. Movements seem deliberate and "physics based".

holy ish..you are right....I hope they tuned the camera flashes like you said.

[TheWatcher]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Video: Pro-TAK Animation System

Skin tones needs some tweaking. I don't ever recall Maurice Jones-Drew being that light. I've caught some other guys not as dark as they should be, too.

[sozo]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Video: Pro-TAK Animation System

If you take a closer look at those pro-tak gifs in which the RB is brought down you can definitely see the same animations used in each gang tackle. The guys that attach on to the back of each pile fall the same way every time and the guys who attach to the front do the same also. Just take a look and you will see the repeated animations. It also happens with some of the players who attach to the side of the pile.

[noplace]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Video: Pro-TAK Animation System

I just hope this pro tak isnt over done. I dont want to see it every single running play or do I want to see a tug of war pile pushing contest. Knowing EA you will see some kind of glitch were your can pushed & pull for 20-30 yrds down the field. lol

Hopefully its not overdone & only applies to the larger more powerful runners. Not scat backs, wr's & QB's.

[SageInfinite]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Video: Pro-TAK Animation System

Awesome badges BS.

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Video: Pro-TAK Animation System

I just hope this pro tak isnt over done. I dont want to see it every single running play or do I want to see a tug of war pile pushing contest. Knowing EA you will see some kind of glitch were your can pushed & pull for 20-30 yrds down the field. lol

Hopefully its not overdone & only applies to the larger more powerful runners. Not scat backs, wr's & QB's.

Ian has already addressed this. Random tackles are in the game, not every tackle is pile pushing contest.