Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

[Moostache]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

You can roll and chuck in 2k8 too, if you do it from the shotgun and have a gold QB. This is the mistake that Madden 10 cannot make. This is why I keep saying it and will keep saying it. That pocket has got to set up faster. 2k8 had a pocket and it mattered when the QB was under center, but it did not matter much when he was in the gun. All you had to do is hike it, move the stick so the QB would not move. The DE's would go right into the tackles leaving the outside wide open. It is especially evident on the 2 back shotgun sets.

Tombsong you know the play I do this with too. Shotgun 2 back 50 X Cross I believe or Y cross. I send the WR opposite of the crossing route on a streak to clear it out for the crossing route coming underneath. Every time I've run that play against anyone, I'm rolling to the right and I had a high completion percentage on that play. And this is with a pocket. So to me, it does not matter that you simply have a pocket. This thing has gotta set up with speed and the DE's and OLB's have got to run the arc to stop the easy going outside by the QB.

I'd prefer it that the DE's/OLB's when they are running the arc to be 1 step away from the QB as he bounces off of his heels from the drop. When the QB is in the gun and if he does not drop, I'd still prefer the DE's and OLB's to stay on that arc. Do not engage the tackles simply because the QB does not move backwards. They need to stay outside so that you have to wait longer if you want to try to get outside. But the longer you wait the worse things will be for you when you attempt to move.

I love everything you just said and I am VERY glad that you were able to attend the CD and provide this feedback (and I truly hope and pray that THIS year is different and that suggestions of this kind of hyper-detailed nature actually get considered, especially since you were able to provide this feedback earlier than ever before)...BUT, I have to say that I honestly doubt that ANY of this is going to be in the final game (fool me once and shame on me...fool me two times...um, uh...fool me....we can't get fooled again... ) - though I would be happy to dance an Irish jig on August 14th if I am wrong!

Simply put a decision will need to be made regarding just how much "new" the core Madden audience will accept in a given iteration...the sad fact is that the majority of the Madden base is NOT a sim audience...they will only take so much before they start screaming about how much the game sucks now and how much "control" they lost over their players, etc. etc. I think that making the QB play realistic would cause many, many players to revolt...they LIKE playing that way and would be pissed if it was taken away...

[Valdarez]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

I'm not sure if it's as easy as LBz makes it out to be. The QBs are extremely slow to accelerate and decelerate and are some of the slowest players in the game in general. This is not realistic of course, but it does greatly hinder the roll out aspect on non-roll out based plays. In general, you're going to need a faster (high tiered) QB to perform this well. I honestly don't scramble unless the pocket breaks down, so I'm not sure how easy it is, and almost no other players scramble either (no competitive ones at least). All you have to do is call a Fan DLine call to make an easy sack when they do.

[NYyankz225]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

It's not as easy as Madden but it's definitely doable.

[LBzrule]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

I'm not sure if it's as easy as LBz makes it out to be. The QBs are extremely slow to accelerate and decelerate and are some of the slowest players in the game in general. This is not realistic of course, but it does greatly hinder the roll out aspect on non-roll out based plays. In general, you're going to need a faster (high tiered) QB to perform this well. I honestly don't scramble unless the pocket breaks down, so I'm not sure how easy it is, and almost no other players scramble either (no competitive ones at least). All you have to do is call a Fan DLine call to make an easy sack when they do.

You might disagree and that's cool, but it is IMO because all of the pass rushers in 2k from DL to LB's are all TIED to the QB. I had a convo with the 2k developers about this. This is why we always complained about the LB's taking bad blitz angles (although there were/are other problems with that, this is one of them). It's not necessarily they take bad angles all the time. They are tied to the QB and when that QB stops that's when they turn. Notice they never rounded off their routes to the QB even when they had a lane to do so. They didn't round them off as long as the QB was dropping. In 2k8 and even 2k5 as long as the QB is dropping the Blitzers will run down, the DL will do what you called for the most part. But as soon as you stop that QB the DL and the blitzers will stop doing what they are doing and turn.

So if you are in the shotgun and you just stop the QB immediately, the DL immediately is going to turn in, no matter what line stunt you call. Madden 2010 must not make this mistake for pass rushers when the QB is in the shotgun or the pass rush will only be effective against the offense when the QB is under the Center.

Let me show a very old video I have on youtube that showcases this problem. In the video I work it from under center and even there you can see as soon as the QB stops the defender turns, but he does not turn where he should. Also forgive the voice, I had a cold and was up until 4 a.m recording this as you will see guys logging on LOL. This video only shows the general problem of defenders being tied to the QB. Not the specific play I was talking about above.

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[LBzrule]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

I'm not sure if it's as easy as LBz makes it out to be. The QBs are extremely slow to accelerate and decelerate and are some of the slowest players in the game in general. This is not realistic of course, but it does greatly hinder the roll out aspect on non-roll out based plays. In general, you're going to need a faster (high tiered) QB to perform this well. I honestly don't scramble unless the pocket breaks down, so I'm not sure how easy it is, and almost no other players scramble either (no competitive ones at least). All you have to do is call a Fan DLine call to make an easy sack when they do.

You can negate fan Dline stunt easily, especially from Shotgun Split.

[Cyros]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

^^ lol, is that ice la fox?

I must say sir, good call without a good face shot.

[stiffarmleft]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

I must say sir, good call without a good face shot.

She likes face shots.

[SageInfinite]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

She likes face shots.

[Tre74]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

we need touch passing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Valdarez]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

You might disagree and that's cool<object width="425" height="344">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/il0mlGbZDiU&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></object>

Not disagreeing, just saying I haven't done it enough to know myself. I never roll out unless the pocket collapses, and when I see other guys doing it against me, I call DLine Fan, and I almost always get a sack.

btw - that video is set to private. No one can see it.

[LBzrule]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

Not disagreeing, just saying I haven't done it enough to know myself. I never roll out unless the pocket collapses, and when I see other guys doing it against me, I call DLine Fan, and I almost always get a sack.

btw - that video is set to private. No one can see it.

Try now, but I'm going to take it back down soon.
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[Cyros]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

She likes face shots.

Well played sir!

[grunt]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

Try now, but I'm going to take it back down soon.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/il0mlGbZDiU&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/il0mlGbZDiU&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

why is the video set to private?

[LBzrule]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

why is the video set to private?

It was originally something I was showing the 2k devs. Out of respect for them I'll just leave it that way. But the issue is clear IMO. If the defenders in Madden 2010 are tied to the QB, like 2k8 then having a pocket will only be significant when the QB is under center. If they are going to have the defenders tied to the QB then they need to have the DE's and OLB's get up the field a lot faster. To me, in 2k8, that was the problem when people lined up in shotgun. The pocket did not set up fast enough and joe cheeser with a 6'6 QB and 6'6 WR's were gonna give you hell. In such games I didn't even play defense, I just made sure I got the ball last so I could score and seal it. I hate that kind of game. I just want to try and make sure that no stone goes unturned with respect to cheeze tactics (offense in particular) for Madden 10

[Valdarez]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: A Deeper Look Into Pass Blocking

It was originally something I was showing the 2k devs. Out of respect for them I'll just leave it that way. But the issue is clear IMO. If the defenders in Madden 2010 are tied to the QB, like 2k8 then having a pocket will only be significant when the QB is under center. If they are going to have the defenders tied to the QB then they need to have the DE's and OLB's get up the field a lot faster. To me, in 2k8, that was the problem when people lined up in shotgun. The pocket did not set up fast enough and joe cheeser with a 6'6 QB and 6'6 WR's were gonna give you hell. In such games I didn't even play defense, I just made sure I got the ball last so I could score and seal it. I hate that kind of game. I just want to try and make sure that no stone goes unturned with respect to cheeze tactics (offense in particular) for Madden 10

Nothing wrong with them being tied to the QB, that's the virtual end point, but they need to have better pathing logic in there. Are you sure the LBs are tied to the QB? I have seen LBs take paths that definitely don't match the QB's movements. Many times the LBs paths in APF2K8 don't make any sense at all.