Madden NFL 10 Hands-On Preview (IGN)

[TheWatcher]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Hands-On Preview (IGN)

The Refs are part of the field. You can run into them, use them as screens, etc.

The coach is on the sideline, out of the way. From the perspective that we play the game, you aren't going to see the coach in detail very often unless they were to specifically add in cutscenes or between play shots. A lot of the places where a TV broadcast would be showing the coach, in Madden we'll be in the playcalling screen.

Of course, at some point you're going to run close enough to the sideline that you'll see Mr. Raisin Head popping up, and of course there are going to be post-play situations which is where this deficiency popped up in 09.

7 refs, and 3 unrecognizable Head Coaches... can we keep 7 refs and cut 2 Raisin Heads for one recognizable head coach, or some sort of combination of that? I'm sure there is a reasonable cut somewhere.

[NYyankz225]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Hands-On Preview (IGN)

I'm confused because all the coaches I can recall were recognizable in 09. McCarthy looked like McCarthy, Tomlin was pretty close, etc. I could also place the model with the coach. What exactly is the problem? Are you saying some specific ones don't resemble the coach or that overall they're not close enough?

[RGiles36]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Hands-On Preview (IGN)

... lol... now tell me, who does that raisin head resemble? And to make it worse, he doesn't even wear team colors. That's just not good... and even more terrible is that there are three of them.

It doesn't resemble anyone of course LOL. My question then is where are you pulling these shots from? I've seen you post them before and I thought the same thing then. The only reason I ask is b/c from my limited time spent on next-gen Maddens, I've never seen those types of shots for the head coaches or the raisin head for that matter .

If the sidelines become more populated that's going to take down everything, but that's not a big worry for me in this regard. I'm just saying that 7 refs but no recognizable Head Coach, I just don't see how that can pass through with Head Coaches being so important to an NFL Broadcast. The Head Coach is a more recognizable figure than any ref. I doubt each ref will be a counterpart to a real world guy, I don't think anyone would expect it of course. But a Head Coach is a different deal. He's such a huge part of an NFL Broadcast in terms of him being spotlighted in scenes and whatnot.

Oh I'm not advocating to make the sidelines more populated. I think a solid job was done with this last year. Madden 08's sidelines were the worst . And again, my position is not rooted in more refs over a detailed head coach. I'm just saying that I don't think the head coach requires as much full-detail as you've said over the past few months.

I wish they looked as detailed as 2K5's do at all times, lol. The Head Coach even has AI in 2K5 and reacts dynamically to things on the field. I mean, when you compare that Raisin Head to 2K5's Head Coaches it's not even close. That shouldn't happen. Madden's should look a lot better considering the time and technology gap.

Then we both agree that NFL2K5 did a pretty damn good job with their head coach detail. But then my point is this: even though 2K did a swell job on designing their head coaches, they don't make that much a difference to me. Aside from the scenarios that I pointed out earlier, they're just there. They look good, but if it comes down to an either-or situation, I'll take less detailed but recognizeable head coaches over going all out to design the head coach's and lessening the characters around the sidelines (be it assistant coaches, camera crew, security, etc). I know you despise the characters that are just there in the background, but they help the atmosphere IMO.

[hayvis]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Hands-On Preview (IGN)

But right now, this is what we have:



... lol... now tell me, who does that raisin head resemble?

Is it Herm Edwards?

[Valdarez]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Hands-On Preview (IGN)

I wish they looked as detailed as 2K5's do at all times, lol. The Head Coach even has AI in 2K5 and reacts dynamically to things on the field. I mean, when you compare that Raisin Head to 2K5's Head Coaches it's not even close. That shouldn't happen. Madden's should look a lot better considering the time and technology gap.

Agreed. I have never understood the argument about resources. If the game is lacking resources for side line animations then there's something severely flawed with the game's engine or the game's design. In either case, the development team should be able to fix it. How can a game 5 years your junior achieve something that you're still claiming can't be done with your engine? Don't tell me it can't be done, don't tell me your engine doesn't support it. Fix it.

I'll still take game play fixes over side line fixes, but it really irks me when I hear that 'we can't do it'. When my developers tell me that, then I tell them if we can't do it, we might as well go home. The animated / alive side lines adds a huge element from an immersion standpoint. Next to the grass and players, it's one of the aspects of the game that you see in some respect all game long.

It would be great to see a coach get animated when there's a questionable call, or in a tense 3rd/4th down conversion. Or even a pan over to them as the huddle breaks where the coach has the clipboard over his mouth as if he's calling a play in. You could even have the announcers work in some commentary with regards to the coach (dynamic and specific).

The dynamic aspect of APF2K8's sideline adds so much realism to the game. The bench lights up when you make a big catch, and when you run down the side line next to it the guys will move from standing in a spot to run towards you and swing their arms telling you to keep on going. The emotion it brings to the moment can't be under rated.

[TheWatcher]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Hands-On Preview (IGN)

I'm confused because all the coaches I can recall were recognizable in 09. McCarthy looked like McCarthy, Tomlin was pretty close, etc. I could also place the model with the coach. What exactly is the problem? Are you saying some specific ones don't resemble the coach or that overall they're not close enough?

The only time they look recognizable in 09 is during that rare occasion that there is a challenge and that was more like a cutscene, there is no other time to my knowledge in 09 that we seen those. The rest of the time we got this:

[Valdarez]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Hands-On Preview (IGN)

I've never relied on IGN for previews/reviews of sports video games. If this is valid, there is plenty of time to tune all this.

Nor should you. Seems like their staff is all over the place, and in many instances it's been proven that they haven't even finished games before writing their reviews. I'd trust the guys at GiantBomb.com first, and then GameSpot 2nd (thought you have to know who to trust there, someo of the guys are pretty opinionated and that carries over in some of the reviews).

[RGiles36]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Hands-On Preview (IGN)

Agreed. I have never understood the argument about resources. If the game is lacking resources for side line animations then there's something severely flawed with the game's engine or the game's design. In either case, the development team should be able to fix it. How can a game 5 years your junior achieve something that you're still claiming can't be done with your engine? Don't tell me it can't be done, don't tell me your engine doesn't support it. Fix it.

Did you miss that discussion a few months back? There was a lot of good discussion in that thread some time back and Ian provided his input into the previous design philosphy.

The dynamic aspect of APF2K8's sideline adds so much realism to the game. The bench lights up when you make a big catch, and when you run down the side line next to it the guys will move from standing in a spot to run towards you and swing their arms telling you to keep on going. The emotion it brings to the moment can't be under rated.

And in return, some would say you got poo graphics in exchange for interactive sidelines (I don't think the graphics were all that bad myself). TheWatcher has a better eye for it than I do though.

[TheWatcher]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Hands-On Preview (IGN)

Is it Herm Edwards?

LOL.

I actually took that shot from the Patriots sideline. Based on where he stood and what he was reacting to, he's actually supposed to be Josh McDaniel! Why did they do Josh like that in 09? He's a good kid, he didn't deserve that

[TheWatcher]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Hands-On Preview (IGN)

It doesn't resemble anyone of course LOL. My question then is where are you pulling these shots from? I've seen you post them before and I thought the same thing then. The only reason I ask is b/c from my limited time spent on next-gen Maddens, I've never seen those types of shots for the head coaches or the raisin head for that matter .

I just took sideline pics in replay. I had a live game pic too but it wouldn't load in my software for some reason.

Oh I'm not advocating to make the sidelines more populated. I think a solid job was done with this last year. Madden 08's sidelines were the worst . And again, my position is not rooted in more refs over a detailed head coach. I'm just saying that I don't think the head coach requires as much full-detail as you've said over the past few months.

I don't too much expect the refs to be polygonal monsters... but they should at least look like what they look like during challenges in 09. If they did that, this would satisfy me. But the raisin heads? That's bad.

Then we both agree that NFL2K5 did a pretty damn good job with their head coach detail. But then my point is this: even though 2K did a swell job on designing their head coaches, they don't make that much a difference to me. Aside from the scenarios that I pointed out earlier, they're just there. They look good, but if it comes down to an either-or situation, I'll take less detailed but recognizeable head coaches over going all out to design the head coach's and lessening the characters around the sidelines (be it assistant coaches, camera crew, security, etc). I know you despise the characters that are just there in the background, but they help the atmosphere IMO.

I'm not against characters being there as long as I see them on a regular basis. My opposition to the 24 event staffers issue I talked about back in the Winter, is that you never actually know they are there until you go into replay and then look for them all and count them. Things can really only help atmosphere if they're seen. If not, it's just a wasted resource.

Now, the idea of having more Coaches is great. Where it breaks down is when you see them and they look like Raisin heads and they don't even wear your teams colors. It looks wrong and in terms of immersion, it actually hurts it. It's glaring in post-play situations which is where I first recognized it. I was the Giants and I looked over and saw a coach wearing a light beige shirt. I'm like "who the hell is this guy?"

Let me ask you this... if you had a choice between 3 raisin heads or a fully recognizable Wade Philips popping up in post-play and other situations, which would you choose?

[Valdarez]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Hands-On Preview (IGN)

Did you miss that discussion a few months back? There was a lot of good discussion in that thread some time back and Ian provided his input into the previous design philosphy.

Yep. Link?

And in return, some would say you got poo graphics in exchange for interactive sidelines (I don't think the graphics were all that bad myself). TheWatcher has a better eye for it than I do though.

I'd argue the point with 2K5, it was pretty top notch graphics in it's day. I wouldn't argue the point on APF2K8, it definitely could have used more detail.

[Bgamer90]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Hands-On Preview (IGN)

Yep. Link?

I'd argue the point with 2K5, it was pretty top notch graphics in it's day.

Even though Madden 2005 had much better lighting, NFL 2k5 was the best looking football game overall during the time imo.

[RGiles36]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Hands-On Preview (IGN)

Yep. Link?

Outside The Football Field

[hayvis]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Hands-On Preview (IGN)

LOL.

I actually took that shot from the Patriots sideline. Based on where he stood and what he was reacting to, he's actually supposed to be Josh McDaniel! Why did they do Josh like that in 09? He's a good kid, he didn't deserve that

Wow. That's some awesome raisin-heading by EA. I reckon they're so good at this, they could turn anyone into a raisin-head.

[loyshon]

Tried to warn you, Madden is BS, either you like it or you dont. They need to fire the entire design team and start over.You need to stop giving them 63 dollars for their crap every year.Think about it, whenever another game was out Madden finished second to it(not in sales,rather gameplay and new ideas)Joe montana sports talk was as good, sony's gameday was so much better that madden didnt release that year,Nfl fever was better, 2k series is better..enough said!!!!!!!!