Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

[TheWatcher]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

i understand what your saying in us not giving him enough credit, but i think your giving him too much..what happens if vinatieri misses...then what??

Then they go to overtime. The games were tied each time.

edit: for the record i'm a brady fan being a michigan lover, but the tuck rule...all this crap with spygate...when the play breaks down he's nowhere to be found..facts are facts..i'd LOVE to see brady on the raiders and see if he would of had any success at all..he was perfect for the system and he did his job..as any good football player should..but he wouldn't be able to do his job in ANY system..like a great player would..that's the point i'm trying to make.

Then there is no such thing as a great player. This can be said of any player who has ever achieved great things. Keep in mind that the Pats were 0 and 2 and going nowhere with Drew Bledsoe the year Brady took over. The system argument is a dead argument. If it were just the system, Drew Bledsoe should've had like 6 Super Bowl rings. Seriously guys, c'mon.

Secondly, to say he couldn't have succeeded here or there is just empty speculation and it really goes nowhere. All we know is where a player DID play and that should never be held against him. Brady could've easily sucked just like a lot of QB's did in New England, or like other players have in similar system's. Difference with Brady is that he happens to be a great player. System's don't make players, players make systems. If not, then Brock Huard would be on his 5th Super Bowl ring.

[shotgun styles]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

Its all about honor with Shotgun Styles, if you make the smart play and check down to a back then you are a coward. Why would you check down when you could force a pass between two linebackers on the intermediate level? Genious (sarcasm). Why make the safe and smart throw when you could make the difficult and stupid throw? If its intercepted then at least I did it with honor. What a crock.

This is a misrepresentation. I said cheating by throwing the ball away and sliding is cowardice. I said no such thing about check downs. In fact, I think a QB who checks down is superior to a gunslinger who jams the ball into coverage. I just don't agree that checking down requires the "heart of a champion". I think that was some rather colorful hyperbole on your part.

[Tampa Bay]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

I'll definitely be on the strip button when I play against the Vikings and the Niners.

[AlexBrady]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

This is a misrepresentation. I said cheating by throwing the ball away and sliding is cowardice. I said no such thing about check downs. In fact, I think a QB who checks down is superior to a gunslinger who jams the ball into coverage. I just don't agree that checking down requires the "heart of a champion". I think that was some rather colorful hyperbole on your part.

Depends on the situation your checking down in. Qbs who always try to jam the ball into coverage never last.

[Broncos86]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

1 If it's in the rules, it's not cheating.
2 QBs who do not slide will hear about it from their coaches.

[steelers1]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

I agreed with a lot of the stuff Shotgun STyles had said until he said anybody could have replaced Brady (I think he's the one that said that) and throwing the ball away is cheating and all of that.

EVERY QB throws the ball away. And you said throwing the ball at a receivers feet should be illegal? How do you judge whether it was a bad throw or on purpose? The rules have changed and you have to accept that.

Also you said Brady never takes chances... that's really not true. I hold the belief that he is a 'dink-dunk' passer as well, but that's not to say he never throws down the field. Especially in '07. There were several times he would just chuck up a pass to a double covered Moss and pray for the catch (and it worked usually.... see the first half of the 1st Dolphins game that year). You seem to believe that Brady is a short-passer who throws the ball away and avoids contact because he is a coward whereas I just believe the Belichick system is catered to shorter easier throws that depend on YAC (it is really a very good system).

Also in the 2 Super Bowl game winning FG drives. When the game is tied, it would be insane to go deep or go for the TD. You want to get into FG range and run the clock down so that if you miss, they don't have a chance to score and you can go to OT. This has nothing to do with modern defensive rules; this is how you play football. And it does take, to some extent, some heroics and confidence to be able to lead a team to that winning FG. I've never tried to knock Brady for that. He got it done. He didn't need a TD, he needed a FG, and he got his team in position for it.

The only thing is that I do think he seems to get ALL the credit. And I think that his last drives to get into FG range blown out of proportion by many people. The game was tied, so if they don't score, they still have overtime. That's why it's so much more impressive if you are actually losing the game at the time, or even more so if you need a TD to win. If you don't get there, you lose. And we haven't really seen Brady in that situation. In SB 42 his 'woulda been' TD drive wasn't really last minute or anything. It was clutch, no doubt, but I'd like to see him do what Eli had to do or Roethlisberger the next year (I wouldn't actually enjoy it if he did, but I'd like to see if he could do it).

Here's the bottom line from my perspective: I don't like the guy. He is a great QB. He is not the greatest QB, in my opinion. He was clutch in his Super Bowls and is a clutch QB in general, especially in the playoffs, but I don't think he is the clutchest QB, and he really hasn't had the right opportunities to prove that he is. And that's not his fault.

[Broncos86]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

I think part of this is Belichick's system. I'm not going to suggest that Brady isn't a good QB, or a great QB. But the system doesn't ask Brady to make a lot of hard plays. As Steelers1 said, it's about YAC.

Look at the Broncos past running game. Every RB was told that you make one cut and then run downhill. The system doesn't ask you to do a lot, in terms of athletics. If you follow the system, and execute the plan, you're not required. Put someone like Barry Sanders in this kind of system, and I doubt you would've seen the sheer brilliance and greatness that we all witnessed. He would've followed the system, and that was that.

This could very well be the case for Brady.

[shotgun styles]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

Depends on the situation your checking down in. Qbs who always try to jam the ball into coverage never last.

Yeah, that Brett Favre was a real flash in the pan...

[Tampa Bay]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

Yeah, that Brett Favre was a real flash in the pan...

Besides the whole cannon arm thing, Brett was actually known for being very good at taking his check downs and having great accuracy on short throws. He came up in Holmgren's west coast style system.

[Tombstone Jackson]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

How the hell is Adrian Peterson only 95 speed???????? Nobody can catch him from behind..

That is borderline ******** for him to not have 99 or 100 speed.

69 CAR????? So he is some sort of scat back now that can't handle 25 carries?????

What the hell is wrong with these Madden programmers?

[Tampa Bay]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

How the hell is Adrian Peterson only 95 speed???????? Nobody can catch him from behind..

That is borderline ******** for him to not have 99 or 100 speed.

What the hell is wrong with these Madden programmers?

I don't think he's faster than Chris Johnson is he? That's the type of speed that gets a coveted 99 now, and 95 speed is probably plenty enough to not get caught from behind in the actual game.

[AlexBrady]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

Yeah, that Brett Favre was a real flash in the pan...

You must not have been watching the same career I watched.

[Tombstone Jackson]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

I don't think he's faster than Chris Johnson is he? That's the type of speed that gets a coveted 99 now, and 95 speed is probably plenty enough to not get caught from behind in the actual game.

In pads, AD is like lightning out there.. I have never seen a RB hit the hole with that kind of explosion.. I don't care what Chris Johnson's 40 time is, he's not faster than AD in pads..

As far as I'm concerned, he is the best player in the NFL and he should have a 99 ovr..

[NovaStar]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

To be perfectly honest, I would be a horrible European. I've been there. It's WAY too cold for me. Cool stuff there, lots of history, but I live for the sunshine and there's precious little of it in Europe.

Witty banter aside, and back tot he discussion, you and some other posters seem to misunderstand me. I do NOT have an "anti-Brady" bias. Brady is the best at what he does. My bias is against the NFL's rules that produced a fraud like Tom Brady in the first place.

If the rules are fair, and offenses have to play on the same level as defenses in the NFL, the Tom Brady's of the world never come into being. He goes into coaching and someone more talented becomes a QB. Unfortunately, offenses are getting a free pass and the result is a bunch of massively overrated system QBs are taking the NFL by storm.

Imagine that after the Bulls won their first 2 championships in the 1990s the NBA banned them from dunking and shooting 3 pointers. Not the whole NBA, just the Bulls in order to make it more fair for the rest of the league. Instead of winning 6 championships, now maybe they only win 3. Would you respect the teams that beat the Bulls, knowing that the rules were adjusted just to slow them down?

This is EXACTLY what has happened to NFL defenses. They have had their hands tied, and offenses have been given the green light to blatantly cheat in order to succeed. Thus, all of these so called "records" are fake. It would be like allowing offensive players to take steroids, but not defenses. If that happened, would you respect all these passing records? Probably not.

So what's the difference between giving someone a chemically induced unfair advantage and giving someone rule based unfair advantage?

Shotgun, I must first say, thanks for taking my comments in the nature inwhich they were meant, fun. Secondly, I see where you are coming from...somewhat. But you can't hate the player, hate the game. What separates Brady from most qb's his his ability to read defenses and his command of his offense. What you saw in 07 was Brady finally getting a big name receiver to go with his superior reading ability. He broke records. Before Moss, all he had was average guys that made plays. Just look at what happened to all of the receivers that have left the Pats.

In regards to time and era. Yeah, the league has definitely become soft, but every qb and receiver play under the same conditions. Brady and others have excelled, many have not. But I do see what you are trying to say.

Here is a rule for you, if a qb throws the ball away or at a receivers foot. They should have an assistant come onto the field and hand that qb a japanese sword so that he can gut himself right there on the field, that coward bastard! They could call it the gut rule. I am joking with you of course.

[shotgun styles]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

I agreed with a lot of the stuff Shotgun STyles had said until he said anybody could have replaced Brady (I think he's the one that said that) and throwing the ball away is cheating and all of that.

See, this is what's hard about having a controversial position. People tend to misrepresent or misunderstand what you've said.

I NEVER said that anyone could replace Brady. What I said was that Drew Brees was marginally talented, but also very prolific. I then asked the pointed question: what is it that Brady can do that Brees cannot?

Playing QB in the NFL is not about talent, it's about learning a set of skills. There are a great many people with the physical tools to play QB in the NFL. There are very few people with the physical tools to play linebacker or corner in the NFL.

EVERY QB throws the ball away. And you said throwing the ball at a receivers feet should be illegal? How do you judge whether it was a bad throw or on purpose? The rules have changed and you have to accept that.

How do you decide if something is pass interference, or holding? It's a ref's job to make judgment calls. The throw away play is only about 20 years old, the league was going along just fine for 70 years without it. QB's should not be allowed to cheat the intentional grounding rule. That's why we have it in the first place, to force them to make a play. If they can't make plays without cheating, they shouldn't be playing in the NFL.

These guys are supposed to be the best in the world. How can you be the best in the world if you need training wheels to succeed?

Also you said Brady never takes chances... that's really not true. I hold the belief that he is a 'dink-dunk' passer as well, but that's not to say he never throws down the field. Especially in '07. There were several times he would just chuck up a pass to a double covered Moss and pray for the catch (and it worked usually.... see the first half of the 1st Dolphins game that year). You seem to believe that Brady is a short-passer who throws the ball away and avoids contact because he is a coward whereas I just believe the Belichick system is catered to shorter easier throws that depend on YAC (it is really a very good system).

Brady rarely takes chances. But the more important thing is that throwing downfield to an open guy is not taking a chance. Throwing to a guy who's covered is. Most of the time if you're running deep with just one defender on you, you're open. With the unfair pass interference rules it's nearly impossible to cover a good receiver 1 on 1.

As to Bellicheck's system, I don't have a problem with it. My issue is the NFL's rules, not his system. Short passing is fine. Checking down is fine. Allowing players to intentionally ground the ball to avoid being hit is a disgrace. Brady wears pads because he is a football player. Otherwise, why not just put a pink jersey on him (like the one he wears in practice) and make hitting the QB off limits?

Also in the 2 Super Bowl game winning FG drives. When the game is tied, it would be insane to go deep or go for the TD. You want to get into FG range and run the clock down so that if you miss, they don't have a chance to score and you can go to OT. This has nothing to do with modern defensive rules; this is how you play football. And it does take, to some extent, some heroics and confidence to be able to lead a team to that winning FG. I've never tried to knock Brady for that. He got it done. He didn't need a TD, he needed a FG, and he got his team in position for it.

Look, Brady's team won those game. I am not at all lamenting those victories. But don't tell me that he's some big hero, with the "heart of a champion" and all that if all he did was dink and dunk it for his kicker. He was a cog in a very large machine, and these drives do not make him "great". They just make him adequate.

The only thing is that I do think he seems to get ALL the credit. And I think that his last drives to get into FG range blown out of proportion by many people. The game was tied, so if they don't score, they still have overtime. That's why it's so much more impressive if you are actually losing the game at the time, or even more so if you need a TD to win. If you don't get there, you lose. And we haven't really seen Brady in that situation. In SB 42 his 'woulda been' TD drive wasn't really last minute or anything. It was clutch, no doubt, but I'd like to see him do what Eli had to do or Roethlisberger the next year (I wouldn't actually enjoy it if he did, but I'd like to see if he could do it).

So would I. To date, he has not.

Here's the bottom line from my perspective: I don't like the guy. He is a great QB. He is not the greatest QB, in my opinion. He was clutch in his Super Bowls and is a clutch QB in general, especially in the playoffs, but I don't think he is the clutchest QB, and he really hasn't had the right opportunities to prove that he is. And that's not his fault.

I like Tom. I think he's a great guy with a great attitude. He loves football, and he's from my home state of CA. I don't like the way other people blow him out of proportion, and I don't like how he's taken credit for things, credit that he knows he does not deserve.