Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

[kcarr]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

I like the stats that you brought up but even on both sides of the arguement it does not change one fact. Stats/wins do not equal a strong arm.(this goes for many overrated players that win/put up good numbers and all of sudden in madden have amazing attributes that arent how they play IRL.)

I agree completely, actually said kinda the same thing on the last page. They always seem to overrate players just because they play on a good team and win games without looking at the actual gameplay and facts.

[SomeStrangeSin]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

i dont understand how they give carson palmer a 87 rating when he was hurt most of the year. yet they give tom brady the 2nd highest rating in the game and he was injured the whole year that is complete BS

[kcarr]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

Interesting because the Steelers had 506 passing attempts compared to their 460 rushing attempts.

Dink and dunk huh? in 2007 Brady was 2nd with Passes over 40 yards (behind Farve) and 1st with passes of over 20 yards. Okay may be its not fair since all we did in 2007 was pass right? Lets look at other years shall we? In 2006 when Brady had Cadwell and Gaffney as his #1 and #2 WRs he was 8th in passes of over 20 yards (manning 4th) and 8th in passes of over 40 yards (Manning 14h). 2005, Brady was 6th in passes of over 20 yards (Manning 1st) and 4th in passes of over 40 yards (Manning was 15th). Again in 2004 Brady was 6th in passes of over 20 yards (Manning 1st) and 5th in passes of over 40 yards (Manning 4th). I am sorry that is not "dinkin and dunkin." As far as pressure they are good but yes when the pocket completely collapses they are not nearly as effective, but I do have to say that our line is not as good as people think. After Brady went down our oline procedeed to give up the most sacks in the league, coinciden? Or did Brady make them look better than they are?

Manning also playe all of his home games in a dome, and 1 more against the Texans, that is a total of 9 games in a dome while Brady played only 1 (in Indy) in a dome. Brady also did it against better defenses than Manning did:

Colts defenses' played:

Patriots 9th
Packers 25th
Jaguars 11th
Raiders 30th
Chiefs 31st
Texans 23rd
Vikings 28th
Bears 21th
Lions 22nd
Titans 27th
Ravens 6th
Chargers 18th
Broncos 4th

Average rank: 20th

Patriots' defenses played:

Jets 18th
Chargers 14th
Bills 31st
Dolphins 23rd
Cowboys 9th
Redskins 8th
Giants 7th
Ravens 6th
Steelers 1st
Browns 30th
Bengals 27th
Colts 3rd
Eagles 10th

Average rank: 14th

As you can see Brady played against better competition and in worst conditions than Manning. Also Brady had 2 rushing TDs that year Manning had 0 in 04, Brady could have easily thrown those. Is not Brady's fault that the defenses couldn't stop him.

Actually when you figure in the teams they played 2 times it is closer to average 19th against average 16th. The pats still played better defenses but not to the level that you try to make it out to be. Also, what are we judging best defense by? Probably should be looking at best passing defenses.

[kcarr]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

If that is the case then lets talk about Westbrook, He has only been in the top 5 rushing yards like twice (Yes 2007 and 2006) and in them years he had 90 rec and 77 rec. If he doesn't catch balls out of the back field, he doesn't get rushing yard. I am tired of Biased Philly fans wanting him to have ratings like he has had past years. He is not very leathal running the ball and never really was. He is a threat to defenses because of the options that Westy gives the offense in how to use him. Ocassionally he can get some big runs, but that is occasionally. Exactly like Reggie Bush.

Stats: Last Year: 936 rushing yards w/ 54 rec for 402 yards.

I mean the games I have watched of philly (Unfortunately alot since I live in WV) he has had his big run games after he is used in the passing. If a team shuts down his passing aspect then he cant do anything.

Actually in 06 he wasn't top 5, just that one time in 07, also, by the way, that 06 season was the last time he had a 40 yard run.

[kcarr]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

dude, are you REALLY mad about that loss by the vikings to the eagles? seriously, EVERY post you make is about taking westbrook down. westbrook hasnt had the attempts most backs have, hence he has less yds. for the 02 and 03 seasons he shared the load, and was at one point part of a three committee backfield. in all his years of starting the year as the number one back he has a career rushing avg of 4.6, he in the injury plagued year he had scored 14 tds, 9 on the ground, you dont get those going to the outside every play. and damn reggie bush, he cant hold westbrooks JOCK. im tired of this myth that brian cant run up the middle, ITS WHERE NEARLY EVERY RUN GOES. the eagles, when they decide to run, are a straight ahead team, we have our stretch plays but as far as running we take it up the middle. last year, he did that well battling injuries, NO FB, washed up tackles, with his best o-lineman out, and with no blocking TE. please, give up on making westbrook average, hes an outstanding back.

First off, what does the 02 or 03 season have to do with how good a player is now? Westbrook has had quite a few carries the last few years, even had 278 the 2 years ago. Last year, which should be the best sign of where he is headed, especially with a 30 year old back, he dropped off to 4 ypc. Also, his receiving numbers were down quite a bit.

Anyway, the only area where I think he is greatly overrated out of what I have seen so far is speed. He is not a top back in terms of speed, more in the upper portion of average. He looks fast because of his great acceleration where he hits top speed so quickly allowing him to cover those first 15 or 20 yards faster than most players around him.

[kcarr]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

Drew throws a LOT of passes..More than any other QB.

Even throwing a lot more passes having no running game support and mostly backup receivers he was tied for second in the league in yards per attempt though. Sure he threw a lot of passes but he did as much with each throw as pretty much anyone else.

[kcarr]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

I understand what you are saying, but you can't blame Brady for the Tuck Rule or Spygate. It's just because he is associated with both.

Did Brady make the call? Did he write the rule?

Spygate, that is all on his coach, not Brady.

Plus, we don't know if Brady wouldn't succeed in any other system, that is all pure speculation.

But in the same way you can't credit him with the 3 superbowls just because he was associated with both. They were result of great play by guys around him and him just doing his job well enough to get by.

[kcarr]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

One more thing on brady leading the league in yards once and tds once before having moss, I will point out both of those were the lowest league leading numbers for those stats since tom started. Actually it is the lowest yards total to lead the league since 1997 and the lowest td total to lead since 92. From the 98 season forward an average of 2.55 players topped toms league leading yard total each year and an average of 2.73 players topped his league leading TD total. It wasn't that he had great years, just that the league average was down.

[kcarr]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

To Shotgun.

"I didn't get an answer about this from another poster, so I'll ask you: How is throwing 6 yard flat routes to wide open HBs who are playing against PREVENT DEFENSES, making "clutch throws"? Manning to Tyree was a clutch throw. McNabb on 4th and 26 was a clutch throw. Roethlisberger to Holmes in the corner to WIN the Superbowl was a clutch throw. All of these throws had a level of difficulty to them. Brady's drives came on VERY routine, low risk passes and he made NO ATTEMPT to score himself."

Andy says: that's not clutch.



I answered you, but maybe you didn't get what I was saying. You are using twisted logic, which therefore makes your opinion twisted (i.e. your bias against Brady) which makes your responses borderline insane.

Now, again, we are speaking of football (NFL), not football, soccer. In american football, the job of the qb on a pass play and/or audible to a pass play, is to read the defense. If the defense gives you an hb swing pass as a viable option, being a great qb (or at least a competent one) causes you to use that option, especially if it gets you necessary yardage to put you in fg range, or to get a first down, you know, move the chains.

If an nfl qb does this often enough (this, being defined as moving the chains in big games) and wins multiple SB's while doing so (included in this would be throwing mid range, deep passes, precision passes, and timing passes) he is great, in the eye of an unbiased, rational thinking, american. I give you a pass because you obviously are from europe, because you keep confusing the two footballs. In American football, Brady is great. In european football (soccer) he isn't. Maybe as the NFL continues to play games across the pond you will gain a better understanding of the NFL, and what it takes to be considered a great qb. Mate.

Yes, when tom was making the easy checkdowns he was doing the smart thing and should not be punished for it. On the same note however, he should not be rewarded for it the same as players who made actual clutch throws.

[kcarr]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

In pads, AD is like lightning out there.. I have never seen a RB hit the hole with that kind of explosion.. I don't care what Chris Johnson's 40 time is, he's not faster than AD in pads..

As far as I'm concerned, he is the best player in the NFL and he should have a 99 ovr..

The speed at which you hit the hole has nothing to do with speed, it is acceleration. 95 speed won't get ran down in the open field. Also, now a 95 speed is the same on field as around a 97 or 98 used to be. Therefore this is not the same as being given a 95 speed last year. AD may have great speed but he is not among the top few players in the game.

[DirtyBird]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

Micheal Turner and Tony Gonzalez, I think i might actually play with the falcons this year.

[adembroski]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

I find this thread shocking. Truly shocking.

Regarding the various QB arguments, I'm going to ignore all of them but the Brady vs. Manning one, because it's the only valid one. There are two starting QBs in the league right now that are no-questions-asked first ballot Hall of Famers, and neither of them wear a nameplate that reaches their shoulders.

"Clutch throws"? Easy answer to that; it doesn't matter how you win, only that you win. And Tom Brady has done more of that than any other QB in the league right now. If not for David Tyree, we wouldn't be having this argument. Back around '98, there was a young QB in the league that people thought was the next Joe Montana. His name was Jake Plummer. And he got that reputation on the basis that he was pulling off miracle comeback wins late in games with regularity... what people failed to realize at that time was that Jake Plummer was the primary reason the team was trailing at that time.

Tom Brady doesn't have a library of game winning last second pin-point touchdowns on his resume because he hasn't needed to make them. He doesn't let the team get in a position where he has too. If you doubt his ability to make plays when they're necessary, see all of his Superbowl victories (including the loss, which he was not responsible for... in fact, he was the reason the game was close).

I saw someone put together a nice little scouting report of all the things Tom Brady does poorly. It was almost entirely inaccurate... except the part about having trouble throwing while running left (which is a common trait, I have noticed, among right handed QBs). Tom Brady doesn't have to make a lot of throws on the run or under pressure because he knows how to make little adjustments in the pocket... one step right, one step up... he feels it. He knows when it's time to get rid of the ball. Much like Montana.

Tom Brady is not Joe Montana, but he's the closest thing you youngans will ever see. It's deceptive... he's so good, he doesn't even look that good. He just picks you apart yard by yard, and you never even think he's having that great of a game until it's over and you've gotten your *** handed too you.

Now, as far as Manning... Manning's a lot more like a Marino or an Aikman than Montana. Still a great QB though, and he does it the way Marino did... with great pocket sense and timing. He doesn't have the footwork of a Tom Brady, but he's got a great release.

As for ratings... Manning has the stronger arm, but Brady's more accurate to all levels. Brady has outstanding technique, so he can air it out pretty good, but he doesn't have the laser Manning does (Brady is a pretty good case study of why I think there should be Throwing Range and Throwing Velocity ratings rather than just Throwing Power). Of course, Manning has some release issues, so his balls tend to come out like wounded ducks. He still manages to put them where they belong, but they'll flutter a bit on the deep throws... hence, while Manning has the stronger arm, Brady is the more accurate deep passer. Which is more valuable on the deep throws is debatable, as Mannings get there a lot quicker.

Brady has better touch as well. This is often a byproduct of accuracy. Guys with good accuracy tend to have good touch... might be the other way around, not sure of the causation, but there's definitely a coloration.

Overall, I have a hard time not giving them pretty equal ratings. He's more accurate, slightly more mobile, and has a tighter throw. Manning has great command of the playbook and the field, feels the rush perhaps a bit better, gets the ball out quicker, and has a stronger arm. If leadership, clutch play, and touch were rated in Madden, Brady would take it.

[Tombstone Jackson]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

. AD may have great speed but he is not among the top few players in the game.

You guys call yourselves football fans and say assinine things like this???

Do us all a favor and never log into this site again..

[shotgun styles]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

I find this thread shocking. Truly shocking.

Regarding the various QB arguments, I'm going to ignore all of them but the Brady vs. Manning one, because it's the only valid one. There are two starting QBs in the league right now that are no-questions-asked first ballot Hall of Famers, and neither of them wear a nameplate that reaches their shoulders.

"Clutch throws"? Easy answer to that; it doesn't matter how you win, only that you win. And Tom Brady has done more of that than any other QB in the league right now. If not for David Tyree, we wouldn't be having this argument. Back around '98, there was a young QB in the league that people thought was the next Joe Montana. His name was Jake Plummer. And he got that reputation on the basis that he was pulling off miracle comeback wins late in games with regularity... what people failed to realize at that time was that Jake Plummer was the primary reason the team was trailing at that time.

Tom Brady doesn't have a library of game winning last second pin-point touchdowns on his resume because he hasn't needed to make them. He doesn't let the team get in a position where he has too. If you doubt his ability to make plays when they're necessary, see all of his Superbowl victories (including the loss, which he was not responsible for... in fact, he was the reason the game was close).

I saw someone put together a nice little scouting report of all the things Tom Brady does poorly. It was almost entirely inaccurate... except the part about having trouble throwing while running left (which is a common trait, I have noticed, among right handed QBs). Tom Brady doesn't have to make a lot of throws on the run or under pressure because he knows how to make little adjustments in the pocket... one step right, one step up... he feels it. He knows when it's time to get rid of the ball. Much like Montana.

Tom Brady is not Joe Montana, but he's the closest thing you youngans will ever see. It's deceptive... he's so good, he doesn't even look that good. He just picks you apart yard by yard, and you never even think he's having that great of a game until it's over and you've gotten your *** handed too you.

Now, as far as Manning... Manning's a lot more like a Marino or an Aikman than Montana. Still a great QB though, and he does it the way Marino did... with great pocket sense and timing. He doesn't have the footwork of a Tom Brady, but he's got a great release.

As for ratings... Manning has the stronger arm, but Brady's more accurate to all levels. Brady has outstanding technique, so he can air it out pretty good, but he doesn't have the laser Manning does (Brady is a pretty good case study of why I think there should be Throwing Range and Throwing Velocity ratings rather than just Throwing Power). Of course, Manning has some release issues, so his balls tend to come out like wounded ducks. He still manages to put them where they belong, but they'll flutter a bit on the deep throws... hence, while Manning has the stronger arm, Brady is the more accurate deep passer. Which is more valuable on the deep throws is debatable, as Mannings get there a lot quicker.

Brady has better touch as well. This is often a byproduct of accuracy. Guys with good accuracy tend to have good touch... might be the other way around, not sure of the causation, but there's definitely a coloration.

Overall, I have a hard time not giving them pretty equal ratings. He's more accurate, slightly more mobile, and has a tighter throw. Manning has great command of the playbook and the field, feels the rush perhaps a bit better, gets the ball out quicker, and has a stronger arm. If leadership, clutch play, and touch were rated in Madden, Brady would take it.

Andy says all that is fine and dandy, but they both cheat and cheating is not sim.

Take out the idiotic 5 yard chuck rule, the QB slide, and the throw away THEN come back and tell me how good these guys are. My money says neither one lasts half the season.

They are system guys. When the play breaks down, they cheat their way out of trouble. They are not special, just lucky.

[adembroski]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Ratings: Top 10 by Position (ESPN Videogames)

Andy says all that is fine and dandy, but they both cheat and cheating is not sim.

Take out the idiotic 5 yard chuck rule, the QB slide, and the throw away THEN come back and tell me how good these guys are. My money says neither one lasts half the season.

They are system guys. When the play breaks down, they cheat their way out of trouble. They are not special, just lucky.

A "System Quarterback" is a quarterback who cannot play outside of the system he fits into, not a player who can't improvise. If you want to make up terminology, go ahead, but don't misuse existing phrases to make your point. It muddles the argument.

Anyways, I hate to inform you, but every NFL team and quarterback play with the same rules, and those rules have been fairly consistent since 1978. Other quarterbacks are unable to match Manning and Brady's accomplishments with the same rules, and in most cases until the last 2 years, better talent around them than Brady.