NBA Finals: Orlando Magic vs. Los Angeles Lakers

[LingeringRegime]

Re: NBA Finals: Orlando Magic vs. Los Angeles Lakers

A) Just because you hate a player, doesn't mean you're a "*****". I hate Kobe Bryant with every bone in my body, every muscle in my body, with an immense, ridiculous passion that I can hardly articulate. That doesn't mean I'm a "*****", because the difference is that a "*****" will bring up ABSURDITIES and never acknowledge positives, or give him respect.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: NBA Finals: Orlando Magic vs. Los Angeles Lakers

John Paxton in 1992 versus the Blazers. That's the only other one I can think of off the top of my head.

That was 1993. Against Phoenix.

[airjoca]

Re: NBA Finals: Orlando Magic vs. Los Angeles Lakers

Going back to the Pietrus - Gasol thing, I still can't believe it's not a suspension. It that was in Europe, he'd be banned for a month.

If that was made in a playground, he'd be in serious trouble, not in the NBA it seems.

What about kids that are Magic fans watching that? Will the parents say, "It's Ok to do that son, he's not even suspended see?"

If that was Kobe or Lebron getting hit in the back, there would probably be a suspension, but hey, it's just Pau Gasol...

[Muzyk23]

Re: NBA Finals: Orlando Magic vs. Los Angeles Lakers

True. Which means Kobe is not THE "Closer". If he was, he would be the one making the shot.

That's a ridiculous statement.

[aholbert32]

Re: NBA Finals: Orlando Magic vs. Los Angeles Lakers

B) Isn't Finals MVP supposed to be a "playoffs" MVP? If it's a "playoffs" MVP, then the argument could be made much easier that Ariza should be the guy. He was in the right position to capitalize on horrible inbounding by the Nuggets, everyone keeps leaving him wide open INEXPLICABLY and he KEEPS knocking them down. He's been doing things that have single-handedly kept the Lakers in the playoffs.

Finals MVP is Finals MVP. It has nothing to do with the entire playoffs. See Cedric Maxwell and Joe Dumars.

[aholbert32]

Re: NBA Finals: Orlando Magic vs. Los Angeles Lakers

John Paxton in 1992 versus the Blazers. That's the only other one I can think of off the top of my head.

Also Paxson made 2 if I recall correctly. One against the Lakers.

[aholbert32]

Re: NBA Finals: Orlando Magic vs. Los Angeles Lakers

Going back to the Pietrus - Gasol thing, I still can't believe it's not a suspension. It that was in Europe, he'd be banned for a month.

If that was made in a playground, he'd be in serious trouble, not in the NBA it seems.

What about kids that are Magic fans watching that? Will the parents say, "It's Ok to do that son, he's not even suspended see?"

If that was Kobe or Lebron getting hit in the back, there would probably be a suspension, but hey, it's just Pau Gasol...

You know what? **** kids. LOL. I'm sick of people running to that excuse everytime the league makes a decision or an athlete does something wrong. "What about the kids?"

If my son came up to me about this I would say "Son, he was called for a flagrant foul and the league thought that was enough punishment. That doesnt mean its OK to do because he risked getting suspended and he cost his team 4 points." Thats it. Kids arent stupid. If you explain it to them, you would be surprised what they understand.

[Cebby]

Re: NBA Finals: Orlando Magic vs. Los Angeles Lakers

In all of Chicago's big games during the Jordan years, how many last second, dagger playoff shots were hit by his teammates compared to MJ's total? Kerr is one. Even Pip, Kukoc, Grant, Rodman, Harper, etc didn't have 'em. Jordan took the shot almost every single time. That's why he's a closer.

There are others.

In the Finals, the two Lakers' shots hit by Fisher and Horry have come from wide open shots on Kobe double teams. Personally, I'd rather my "closer" pass when trapped 30 feet from the basket or being double teamed where, even if he somehow gets through, he has the DPotY who just set the Finals record for blocks sitting in the lane.

Jordan would have passed in those situations too.

And I really don't get this Ariza thing.

He's the 3rd or 4th player on the team, and as such gets the treatment that 3rd or 4th players get, primarily that you can only remember the good moments unless there's some epically bad moment. He's played well in the Finals, but more important than Kobe? You take Kobe off of the team at any point in the playoffs and the Lakers lose. You take Ariza off the Lakers and at worst, 1 or 2 of the series get extended a game or two.

[SportsTop]

Re: NBA Finals: Orlando Magic vs. Los Angeles Lakers

Its been brought up he was "just a teenager" before. But you can't explain the others.

And I never said I expected perfection. But fans & media, like DC's comment, make him seem like he's over 50% in these situations. He's not.

Why in the world do Fish & Big Shot have so many clutch baskets if Kobe is THE "Closer"? He's very good. But his ability in the clutch in pressure games is highly overrated.

Are you serious with this? I'm really not trying to be an a-hole when I ask this, but how well do you understand the game of basketball? Fisher and especially Horry are specialists that are known for making one or two big shots once or twice in the playoffs every other year. Wide open shots by NBA standards. How do you think they get that open? Probably because the defense was doubling on Bryant (and Shaq in some cases) that it left those guys open. It's the NBA....shooters should be able to make wide open shots.

You can atrribute both of Fisher's open three pointers directly to Kobe Bryant. The one in OT is easy to see: Nelson comes over to double team, Kobe passes to Fisher, wide open three. On the first three to tie the game the Magic tried to trap Kobe on the in bounds pass. Kobe found Ariza, who then passed to Fisher for the open three. The only reason that three was so open and the Magic's defense was in disarray was because of their attention on Bryant.

There's more to being a "closer" than just taking the last shot as Born posted. The only thing I'd add is that part of being a great closer is getting to the FT line and finishing out the game. It's part of what make Jordan great and what makes Bryant great as well.

You're spening more time looking for instances why Bryant is the closer, or great, or (insert adjective here) rather than just appreciating a great basketball talent who's learned from his past immaturity and has become, for the most part, the most focused and driven player we've seen since Jordan.

[MaddenMan]

Re: NBA Finals: Orlando Magic vs. Los Angeles Lakers

So you stopped watching basketball in the post-Jordan days because stars get too many calls?

I guess you don't realize that in the last 35 years, Jordan shot 700 more free throws than any other guard or SF.

Um, no. Like I said I stopped watching in the Jordan days, IE Jordan got all the calls and that wasn't right.

I tried watching again in the late 90s but the league seemed like a bunch of thugs and not enough real basketball going on, then the Euro explosion happened and guys like Dirk, Nash and Parker brought me back to watching.

I'm sorry but it's just sickening to watch, even my team the Nuggets got way too many calls in the Mavs and Hornets series and I feel the NBA is trying to get a finals matchup for ratings instead of the teams that deserve to be there.

[LingeringRegime]

Re: NBA Finals: Orlando Magic vs. Los Angeles Lakers

Sorry to interrupt the Kobe wars, but here is a link to a good article about why ORL lost game four.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/9671330/Magic-lost-because-Van-Gundy-hit-panic-button

[Pared]

Re: NBA Finals: Orlando Magic vs. Los Angeles Lakers

How about the horrible percentage he is shooting? The guy missed over 20 shots! Thats the best basketball player on the planet? Sorry not buying the hype! Anybody can score 30pts a game when you shoot 30 times! I have been pleasantly surprised by his willingness to pass more late in games. However this could really be a sweep if he did'nt revert to old Kobe and try to go 1 on 4 and get blocked by Hedo. I personally feel a guy like Gasol is the reason they are poised to win a title. Anyone who follows basketball knows they were not title contenders until he was traded/stolen from Memphis. But we all know Kobe will get it because like most of these awards it is a popularity contest. Anyone else notice late in the game the Magic were actually doubling Gasol and leaving Kobe open? I thought that was telling. & he continued to hoist up 3pt bricks keeping Orlando in the game when they were doing everything they can to give it to the Lakers.

And after all that... what's your point?

Where was it ever written that the MVP of the NBA Finals has to have to be the most efficient? Has to hit every game winning shot?

This entire discussion is absurd. And I'm not even a Lakers/Kobe fan.

[Moses Shuttlesworth]

Re: NBA Finals: Orlando Magic vs. Los Angeles Lakers

pared i like the green homie

[J0nnD0ugh]

Re: NBA Finals: Orlando Magic vs. Los Angeles Lakers

There are others.

In the Finals, the two Lakers' shots hit by Fisher and Horry have come from wide open shots on Kobe double teams. Personally, I'd rather my "closer" pass when trapped 30 feet from the basket or being double teamed where, even if he somehow gets through, he has the DPotY who just set the Finals record for blocks sitting in the lane.

Jordan would have passed in those situations too.

Did I say Kobe made bad plays by going w/the assist?



I don't get why people who try to bring balance to the discussion get treated as if they insulted the player. Saying Kobe is not THE "closer" he is made out to be isn't a criticism of Kobe. Its a criticism of the media & fans who overhyped him. They've made him appear to be money & he's not. He's like alot of players, he's just had more opportunities to shine @ that moment.

[J0nnD0ugh]

Re: NBA Finals: Orlando Magic vs. Los Angeles Lakers

Are you serious with this? I'm really not trying to be an a-hole when I ask this, but how well do you understand the game of basketball? Fisher and especially Horry are specialists that are known for making one or two big shots once or twice in the playoffs every other year. Wide open shots by NBA standards. How do you think they get that open? Probably because the defense was doubling on Bryant (and Shaq in some cases) that it left those guys open. It's the NBA....shooters should be able to make wide open shots.

You can atrribute both of Fisher's open three pointers directly to Kobe Bryant. The one in OT is easy to see: Nelson comes over to double team, Kobe passes to Fisher, wide open three. On the first three to tie the game the Magic tried to trap Kobe on the in bounds pass. Kobe found Ariza, who then passed to Fisher for the open three. The only reason that three was so open and the Magic's defense was in disarray was because of their attention on Bryant.

There's more to being a "closer" than just taking the last shot as Born posted. The only thing I'd add is that part of being a great closer is getting to the FT line and finishing out the game. It's part of what make Jordan great and what makes Bryant great as well.

You're spening more time looking for instances why Bryant is the closer, or great, or (insert adjective here) rather than just appreciating a great basketball talent who's learned from his past immaturity and has become, for the most part, the most focused and driven player we've seen since Jordan.

Thanks for explaining basketball to me oh great wise one.

I appreciate very much how much Kobe has grown, finally, as a basketball player. The last 2 seasons, he finally became worthy of being thought of as one of the best of all time. I can't still can't stand his arrogant, cheap, prima donna butt. But I now acknowledge him as one of the best players, not just a talented ball hog.

The thing no one has mentioned is how he has had so many assists in this postseason. In 2007, it would have taken him 3 games to get 8 dimes.

So though I despise the guy, I can still see the talent.

W/all that said, he's still overrated as a closer & a defender. That doesn't mean he is a bad closer or defender. It means the credit he's given for it is overhyped.