NCAA Football 10 Video: Army vs. Navy

[greenegt]

Re: NCAA Football 10 Video: Army vs. Navy

Nice vids. I can't wait to just have fun with the game. It's not perfect, but it looks a lot better than last year.

[countryboy]

Re: NCAA Football 10 Video: Army vs. Navy

Damn Rudy.....great breakdown.

[rudyjuly2]

Re: NCAA Football 10 Video: Army vs. Navy

Rudy is about to break out the telestrator on this one. Nice analysis man.

Damn Rudy.....great breakdown.

Thanks. NCAA 10 has been getting enough criticism. I just didn't think this particular play warranted it. Most WRs suck at blocking in real life. To see one miss a block is hardly unrealistic. And like I said, they don't drive block a guy when he's lined up 7-8 yards off him. That's not that easy to make that block.

[mudtiger]

Re: NCAA Football 10 Video: Army vs. Navy

Thanks for the vid. Any comment on how cpu navy threw the ball? Big thing that bugged me the previous few years is going up against teams like army and navy and watching them pull off an effective passing offense.

[ryby6969]

Re: NCAA Football 10 Video: Army vs. Navy

It was rather nice to see the AI qb make the right read and pitch the ball at the right time! I can't remember the last time I could have said that so this is a definite improvement IMHO.

[michigan21]

Re: NCAA Football 10 Video: Army vs. Navy

I just finished watching the new Madden videos and the new NCAA videos. I was shocked at how much better the presentation is on Madden. Here is the difference between the two games:

Madden: The new sideline cut scenes in Madden make it feel like you are watching a real NFL game. There are players celebrating with each other, players on the phone talking to coaches in the booth, coaches getting in player's faces and trying to coach them up. These are all new additions to Madden 10 and they significantly increase the gaming experience. When I watched the Madden videos I had three or four "Wow, that's cool" moments.

NCAA: After each play you have the same cut scenes that have been in NCAA since it went next gen with NCAA 07. First the player involved in the previous play gets up and does a short celebration or dance. Next the camera pans out and shows a panoramic view of the stadium. Again, these are the same cut scenes we have seen since NCAA 07. When you score in NCAA you get the same interactions with mascots that were in the game last year, then a quick shot of the cheerleaders followed by the mandatory stadium cut scene. Again, this is all stuff that was in last year's game. With NCAA I had three or four "Oh no, not again" moments.

Just by watching a minute of Madden 10 you can tell that it is not 09. The presentation is better by leaps and bounds. Conversely, if Steve would have sneaked in a video of NCAA 09 I'm not sure very many of us would have noticed. The presentation on NCAA is so tired and stale.

The more I see Madden the more it seems like a polished, new product. Sadly, NCAA feels like a budget production.

As someone who loves college football and wastes a lot of time in NCAA dynasty mode and little time in Madden franchise mode, this is sad. I will still play NCAA 10 because I love college football and video games.

But it would be nice to see NCAA 10 receive the polish and attention that Madden 10 has received.

I agree 100%. There are very subtle differences from 09, but not enough to justify a purchase at full cost.

[Rocky]

Re: NCAA Football 10 Video: Army vs. Navy

It was rather nice to see the AI qb make the right read and pitch the ball at the right time! I can't remember the last time I could have said that so this is a definite improvement IMHO.

He didn't really make the right read. This is still the "block everybody in front of you" flexbone with no sense of scheme and no real read whatsoever. It was nice to see it effective which was better than last year.

[coachchris]

Re: NCAA Football 10 Video: Army vs. Navy

Thanks. NCAA 10 has been getting enough criticism. I just didn't think this particular play warranted it. Most WRs suck at blocking in real life. To see one miss a block is hardly unrealistic. And like I said, they don't drive block a guy when he's lined up 7-8 yards off him. That's not that easy to make that block.

Rudy,

I pretty much agree with your analysis especially cutting the run up inside because of the contain by the de.

The issue I have with the cb coming up that quickly on the run is no one is covering the wr. I realize this is probably knit picky and the AI needs as much help as possible so its not a big deal.

From a realism stand point the only way that cb is up at the LOS forcing the run inside is if the defense is in cover 2 and from the reaction of the fs I dont think the def was in cov 2. If he is man (which it looks like to me) or cov 3 he better stay with that receiver or here comes the fb pass for a wide open td. I realize the ball had been pitched to the fb but in past games even when running the option with the qb no one respects the wr. Hopefully they have set up plays like this as part of the "play set up" feature and all would be gravy.

I am a coach and we coach up our cb's to never look in the backfield when in man coverage. If you get caught looking in the backfiled you will pay and learn your lesson. Their job is to cover the wr in man wherever he goes and break down for any run only at the last second.

To illustrate my point on setting up a play and having the cb come up on the run I will give you an example. Last year we were playing a team that ran mostly man or cover 1 and after watching several game tapes I realized the other teams weak corner loved looking in the backfield to come up and stop the run and be a hero. So I installed a HB pass with one of our hb's that had a decent arm and low and behold who was out there being a hero, that weak corner. We set him up several times throughout the game running the the hb sweep to his side to see if he was still biting and of course he was. Well in due time here came the hb pass and guess who was all by himself about 15 yards down the field? The wr that weak cb was suppose to be covering for the game winning TD.

Sorry for the long post and I realize the average fan could care less about this type of realism but if these type of set up plays are in the game I will be extactic.

He didn't really make the right read. This is still the "block everybody in front of you" flexbone with no sense of scheme and no real read whatsoever. It was nice to see it effective which was better than last year.

Yep, bottom line is the blocking is still not fixed so it is not really option football.

[rudyjuly2]

Re: NCAA Football 10 Video: Army vs. Navy

Rudy,

The issue I have with the cb coming up that quickly on the run is no one is covering the wr. I realize this is probably knit picky and the AI needs as much help as possible so its not a big deal.

From a realism stand point the only way that cb is up at the LOS forcing the run inside is if the defense is in cover 2 and from the reaction of the fs I dont think the def was in cov 2. If he is man (which it looks like to me) or cov 3 he better stay with that receiver or here comes the fb pass for a wide open td. I realize the ball had been pitched to the fb but in past games even when running the option with the qb no one respects the wr. Hopefully they have set up plays like this as part of the "play set up" feature and all would be gravy.

I am a coach and we coach up our cb's to never look in the backfield when in man coverage. If you get caught looking in the backfiled you will pay and learn your lesson. Their job is to cover the wr in man wherever he goes and break down for any run only at the last second.

Good point about the over agressive CBs. Hadn't thought of that.

[stylee]

Re: NCAA Football 10 Video: Army vs. Navy

On the Load Option that went for the long gain, the D-End lines up on the inside shoulder of the PS Tackle, who zone steps into that gap while the PS Guard steps towards that D-End too. The Guard brushes him and then moves on to the next level.

It looks like a combo attempt (although what you'd probably rather do in that situation is combo the tackle to the next level instead of that guard) and that's cool.

If on the regular triple option something like that happens - Tackle and guard both look to secure B-Gap first and then move to next level next - that would be cool.

The general principle on the Inside Veer Option for the Playside Tackle is to look (1)B-Gap to (2) first linebacker head-up or (3) inside. So what you usually get is the tackle crashes the MLB and the guard takes care of the DT.

It looks to me like this is possible. The problem, it has been said, is that the Defensive AI would glitch if that DE truly were untouched. I don't know.

Now, the QB in this vid pitches off the backside OLB as the Tight End base blocks who is basically head up on him, and two of the backs load the S and the MLB. For some reason the CB slides inside and takes himself out of the play.

One could certainly say "load the playside and QB just pitch off of whoever flashes free"...and maybe that's the desired scheme here.

I'm probably just reading too deeply into this but it would be nice to see the regular ISV/Triple Option out of this, as it is the base of this entire playbook.

[nstod]

Re: NCAA Football 10 Video: Army vs. Navy

Good point about the over agressive CBs. Hadn't thought of that.

It's also possible that the CPU "sold out" on the run, and that was why the CB went aggressively for the run. If that is the case, I am GLAD to see the CB act this way, as if you guess run, and they go to an option pass, you should expect to get burnt badly.

[Rocky]

Re: NCAA Football 10 Video: Army vs. Navy

Now, the QB in this vid pitches off the backside OLB as the Tight End base blocks who is basically head up on him, and two of the backs load the S and the MLB. For some reason the CB slides inside and takes himself out of the play.

One could certainly say "load the playside and QB just pitch off of whoever flashes free"...and maybe that's the desired scheme here.

I'm probably just reading too deeply into this but it would be nice to see the regular ISV/Triple Option out of this, as it is the base of this entire playbook.

Yea, it is an odd scheme...because you never know what the SLB is going to do.

The DE should be blocked either way, but I would guess that the SLB would be the pitch key. The TE would block the MLB for the QB and the FB would block him for the pitch. The slot goes up and blocks the SS.

My best guess is that there are really no reads in the TO or schemes whatsoever again.

[stylee]

Re: NCAA Football 10 Video: Army vs. Navy

Sounds about right to me.

I was told by a mod at NCAAstrategies who personally asked the Devs about unblocked defenders on the option.
They told him it wasn't feasible because unblocked defenders "caused AI problems"

but it looks like this tackle is at least programmed to step inside first, instead of step straight upfield. So that's a step, I guess.

[Rocky]

Re: NCAA Football 10 Video: Army vs. Navy

Sounds about right to me.

I was told by a mod at NCAAstrategies who personally asked the Devs about unblocked defenders on the option.
They told him it wasn't feasible because unblocked defenders "caused AI problems"

but it looks like this tackle is at least programmed to step inside first, instead of step straight upfield. So that's a step, I guess.

Unbelievable.

But then they spend all their time and effort on something like Season Showdown. I'm not even going to pretend like I know how to program, but this is about priorities IMO.

I think it should be a priority to get offensive schemes right. I think it should be a priority to get realistic physics and momentum in the game. It should be a priority to get fundamental defensive principles in the game.

[stylee]

Re: NCAA Football 10 Video: Army vs. Navy

Unbelievable.

But then they spend all their time and effort on something like Season Showdown. I'm not even going to pretend like I know how to program, but this is about priorities IMO.

I think it should be a priority to get offensive schemes right. I think it should be a priority to get realistic physics and momentum in the game. It should be a priority to get fundamental defensive principles in the game.

I don't know...

if the hypothetical imperative is to build a true or at least approximate simulation of college football action, then I agree, these sorts of things should be #1 Priority.

But that's not NCAA '10s only goal. They also want to appeal to the widest possible fanbase so that they can get more money - so they have to work on "atmosphere", cosmetics, fluff features, rosters, etc etc etc AND make a game that is playable for people who really only have a rough knowledge of football.

People who think there is a "SPREAD OFFENSE" that is only slightly different in application between Hawaii and Florida ("because they both run THE SPREAD, you see?"), who think that the triple option is where you give it the fullback a bunch of times and then you fake it, who don't know the difference between a Cover 1 and a Cover 3, who don't know the difference between a 3 Tech and a 2 Tech, etc etc....
are not going to enjoy playing a game that is a "true sim."
And then you can go up or down with kinda rough-hewn edges of levels of knowledge from there - people who don't know what a veer scheme vs. a zone scheme is, or people who don't know what a Guard is vs. a Tackle, people who don't understand what mixed coverages are, or people who think direct snaps to the running back were invented in 2008 by the Miami Dolphins, etc etc.

and all these people need a game they can understand and therefore can play comfortably.
(and all these sorts of people, to some degree, really are part of THE COMMUNITY here.)

So EA has to balance all this AND balance their checkbook

If I made a college football game, it certainly be much more "sim" than NCAA 10 is.
I just don't know if that's whats in THEIR best interest as a company.