Madden NFL 10: Updated Running Animation

[StormJH1]

Re: Madden NFL 10: Updated Running Animation

2K8 not 2K5 set the standard for running animations. I play 2K8 still and will still see animations I have never seen. In 2K8 when you use Christian Okoye or Barry Sanders you can tell right away the difference between them. There is momentum, animations, and more that Madden 10 on next gen should have over all other things 1st.

I play 2k5 on 360 (backwards compatible). As much as I like 2k5 for what it is, let's not pretend like the animations in that game compare to Madden and the current next-gen titles. Not only did 2k5 only run at 30fps (I believe), but there is a ton of slowdown in that game (at least there is on 360), so there's literally 1/2 as much "information" on the screen when in comes to the split-second by split-second motions of a running animation.

I don't recall having any major problem with the Madden '09 animations, even on the breakaways with roadie run camera. NCAA '09 (and from the looks of it, NCAA '10 as well) is a whole different story.

[bang911]

Re: Madden NFL 10: Updated Running Animation

once again for these people who "don't care" about visuals, I guess EA can roll out stickmen and as long as they respond to your controller,you'll be happy right?
then you should go buy an old school electric football game instead of playing a "next gen" NFL game.

Myself and your other quote both pointed out that the control for current-gen has been lacking. You say we should play old-school games, but those games contain the same poor controls we are talking about here, they are unrealistic (ex. only 8 directions only 2 speeds).

The controls go hand in hand with the animations. I don't see why you would bash people for wanting the control to feel right when that would most likely involve making the animations themselves look right.

[Phobia]

Re: Madden NFL 10: Updated Running Animation

Well being a fellow APF, NFL2k5 fan and a Madden Nazi I wanted to comment on this topic that seems to be at the forefront of the madden debate lately.

First, I believe the running animations are off. But they are not off to the degree where I am having a issue with it. I look at it and go "Damn they run like crap" but keep on playing.

Now the reason I don't care as much as I have for other things is. I have stayed with NFL2k5/APF for a couple reasons.

1. APF has a sense of playing calling being strategic. Where playing calling matters more so than who can wiggle the stick quicker left/right, hit AAAAAAA 10 times, then RT to bounce it out side alla Madden.
2. Momentum in APF is much more on the side of realism. You run horizontal to the line then decided to change and run the other way...Well there is a correct sense of slow down, change direction, speed build back up, etc etc. Which leads on a whole of much better gameplay across the board.
3. Time based passing in APF. In Madden the QB drop back has never matched the WR's routes and break points. Which leads to all kinds of issues. Throwing when ever you want and the WR will grow eyes in back his head and magically know the ball was released to make a break for it. In APF the ball would be thrown to where the route was intended to be, if the WR is not at the correct point well it is a play broken up by bad timing. Which is REALISTIC. Also makes Bump and run a real option.
4. Degrees of speed in APF. In Madden you have FULL SPEED & STOP. This is extremely frustrating. This is what has ALWAYS drove me up the wall about madden the last few years. If I got a blocker in front me and I want to follow that blocker. Well I better hope that he is faster than me or I am gonna out run him right into the defender. This SHOULD NOT happen. You should be able to control how fast you run based on how far the stick is pushed. The Sprint button needs to be removed. Go with the NHL 09 approach. Full up means Full speed and the ratings dictate the rest.
5. Momentum based blocking in APF - I am not going to go into detail into this because we all know about this.

Now why does the run animation not bother me as much. Well as you can see from the above list. These play a much bigger role in what I want out of madden.

So IAN always asks "What do you like about Madden and What do you want to see fixed?"

• I Like the direction of Pro-Tak
• I like the control over the players.
• I LOVE the graphics
• I like the animations

What do I dislike

• Time based passing being missing
• Control over the speed of your player
• Money - aka cheese being able to be effective
• PLAY CALLING MATTERING

This last one is a HUGE HUGE Deal to me and one of the reasons why LBRule I find is one of the best sources here on the Madden boards. He understands that the X's and O's on the field need to do their assignments correctly so we can call the plays we want to stop certain things. Some kid should not be able to call a streak over and over while I call a cover 3 or Cover 4 and he keep on completeing it with a RC or some other BS animation. Once in a blue moon SURE I will agree. but 4-8 times a game. Huuuuuuuhhhhhhh I will pass.

With all that said. Ian I am buying Madden 10 for the first time since 05 on PC. I throughly enjoy your input here and the direction you want to take the Madden franchise and I will support those efforts.

[totalownership]

Re: Madden NFL 10: Updated Running Animation

2K8 not 2K5 set the standard for running animations. I play 2K8 still and will still see animations I have never seen. In 2K8 when you use Christian Okoye or Barry Sanders you can tell right away the difference between them. There is momentum, animations, and more that Madden 10 on next gen should have over all other things 1st.

Right on my man. Some of the running animations I've see in 2K8 to this day have amazed me. They really put their foot in that one when they cooked up 2K8. It's funny but you can tell a great game just by the memories it leaves you with.

APF 2K8: I had a run with a made up Brandon Jacobs and it was a thing of beauty. And, this is the funny part, there is NO Brandon Jacobs in the game and the game knows nothing about him YET just by putting in stats and appropriate attributes my guy was running just like him. It was an off tackle run which he broke to the outside and got some steam , leveled one dude a split second another dude try to strip/tackle him which he spinned off, but not a Emmitt Smith/Tiki Barber spin but the kind of spin you'd expect from a guy his size with the right speed to the animation and momentum and THEN trying to keep his balance and still keeping it moving up field. Never seen anything like it in any game. Madden I just have no such memories. Well let me rephrase that, only memory I have of Madden is beating a freind on N64 with a 50 yard bomb to Tiki Barber who I sent running straight up the middle of the field . Nothing, and I mean NOTHING has compared to 2K8's running game and from the looks of things nothing will compare for quite a while. I'm hoping I'm wrong, I mean I REALLY hope that I'm wrong but as it looks I don't think I will be.

Well my man, this all comes down to preference. You're obviously pretty passionate about the running animations and feel as though they should've taken precedence over many of the other gameplay improvements. Me (and probably most Madden players), not so much. I'm glad they went in the direction they did this year and obviously there's much room for this stuff to improve next year.

I know people hate the 'next year' phrase, but all sports games should be taking steps to improve year-in and year-out. With ALL of the improvements this year (I can scratch many items off my wishlist from last year), I can deal with the locomotion, momentum, and animation issues this year. If not for all the other improvements in Madden '10, I'd be on your side.

P.S. Many of the recent posts regarding running animations sort of re-enforce what Ian alluded to this time last year. June 2008, most of those within the community harped on line play, DB/WR interaction, and maybe game speed. Those items are all addressed as a result of the communities' complaints, yet now running animations are at the forefront of Madden's issues in the communities' eyes. Funny stuff.

I don't think it's about preference guy, I think it's about solid football foundation. Certain things need to be addressed before other things. I would have gladly given up a nine man tackling animation and/or a fumble button mash mini-game for some good realistic running. A 2-3 man tackling scenario would have been good enough if it meant getting some good running out the game.

I'm pretty sure that running is not just "now" getting the communities eyes. Infact....
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...post2038692512
and in then
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...post2038693822

that's just a few posts I've made about it. I know i'm not the only one.

But to be honest I, nor anyone else, shouldn't have to say anything to these guys. They have eyes, a TV and a paying job to replicate football. They should clearly see what needs to be attended to.

I agree animations are important, but it's all subjective opinions on what should come 1st 2nd or last. Basically, animations don't jump up at me and say, oh, dealbreaker if not vastly imporved.

Yes, they are number one some people's list, doesn't mean they are number 1 on everyone's list.

I'm glad there is huge improvements over 09.

Animations are important on EVERYONES list dude. I guarantee if the game had the QB standing at attention during the whole play, feet never moving, never bending to get the snap, never throwing , the ball just magically comes out his chest on a pass, then the WHOLE community would be in an uproar. (Funny thing is the game would probably STILL sell lmao)

Well being a fellow APF, NFL2k5 fan and a Madden Nazi I wanted to comment on this topic that seems to be at the forefront of the madden debate lately.

First, I believe the running animations are off. But they are not off to the degree where I am having a issue with it. I look at it and go "Damn they run like crap" but keep on playing.

Now the reason I don't care as much as I have for other things is. I have stayed with NFL2k5/APF for a couple reasons.

1. APF has a sense of playing calling being strategic. Where playing calling matters more so than who can wiggle the stick quicker left/right, hit AAAAAAA 10 times, then RT to bounce it out side alla Madden.
2. Momentum in APF is much more on the side of realism. You run horizontal to the line then decided to change and run the other way...Well there is a correct sense of slow down, change direction, speed build back up, etc etc. Which leads on a whole of much better gameplay across the board.
3. Time based passing in APF. In Madden the QB drop back has never matched the WR's routes and break points. Which leads to all kinds of issues. Throwing when ever you want and the WR will grow eyes in back his head and magically know the ball was released to make a break for it. In APF the ball would be thrown to where the route was intended to be, if the WR is not at the correct point well it is a play broken up by bad timing. Which is REALISTIC. Also makes Bump and run a real option.
4. Degrees of speed in APF. In Madden you have FULL SPEED & STOP. This is extremely frustrating. This is what has ALWAYS drove me up the wall about madden the last few years. If I got a blocker in front me and I want to follow that blocker. Well I better hope that he is faster than me or I am gonna out run him right into the defender. This SHOULD NOT happen. You should be able to control how fast you run based on how far the stick is pushed. The Sprint button needs to be removed. Go with the NHL 09 approach. Full up means Full speed and the ratings dictate the rest.
5. Momentum based blocking in APF - I am not going to go into detail into this because we all know about this.

Now why does the run animation not bother me as much. Well as you can see from the above list. These play a much bigger role in what I want out of madden.

So IAN always asks "What do you like about Madden and What do you want to see fixed?"

• I Like the direction of Pro-Tak
• I like the control over the players.
• I LOVE the graphics
• I like the animations

What do I dislike

• Time based passing being missing
• Control over the speed of your player
• Money - aka cheese being able to be effective
• PLAY CALLING MATTERING

This last one is a HUGE HUGE Deal to me and one of the reasons why LBRule I find is one of the best sources here on the Madden boards. He understands that the X's and O's on the field need to do their assignments correctly so we can call the plays we want to stop certain things. Some kid should not be able to call a streak over and over while I call a cover 3 or Cover 4 and he keep on completeing it with a RC or some other BS animation. Once in a blue moon SURE I will agree. but 4-8 times a game. Huuuuuuuhhhhhhh I will pass.

With all that said. Ian I am buying Madden 10 for the first time since 05 on PC. I throughly enjoy your input here and the direction you want to take the Madden franchise and I will support those efforts.

Everything, EVERYTHING he just said.

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL 10: Updated Running Animation

Animations are important on EVERYONES list dude. I guarantee if the game had the QB standing at attention during the whole play, feet never moving, never bending to get the snap, never throwing , the ball just magically comes out his chest on a pass, then the WHOLE community would be in an uproar. (Funny thing is the game would probably STILL sell lmao)

Again, never said they weren't important, but where the importance is on the list is still all a guesswork.

[LAKE4742]

Re: Madden NFL 10: Updated Running Animation

Since this thread is a lil off topic already (talking about APF2k8), I just want to chime in. I have recently been playing the APF2K8 demo, and I must say I'm thoroughly impressed by not only the running animations, but the entire core seems to be in much better shape.
I love the fact that when dropping back, I actually have to push UP towards the pocket (no automatic dropback and stop), to plant my feet, to make a proper pass. I feel in full control of my QB. Even the kicking game is a challenge-good thing. It feels like a skill game. That's the difference between skill vs. animation-based. It's not perfect, and 2K5 is probaly better. But, it's a much better effort than any recent Madden.

After Ian's statements yesterday, I feel that once M10 is played on Normal speed, and All-Pro setting, many of my running and gameplay worries will be over. And with all of the other adds this year, I think this actually may be the year Madden surpasses the great 2K5.....and APF2K8.

[mcloviin]

Re: Ians Twitter: Possible updated running animation vid today!

in madden 09 when the runner is going without turbo it looks as if he is a noodle with legs.

compared to using turbo..i guess EA thought the player would not use turbo

[BezO]

Re: Madden NFL 10: Updated Running Animation

I know people hate the 'next year' phrase, but all sports games should be taking steps to improve year-in and year-out. With ALL of the improvements this year (I can scratch many items off my wishlist from last year), I can deal with the locomotion, momentum, and animation issues this year. If not for all the other improvements in Madden '10, I'd be on your side.

I guess the problem with "next year" is that the game is so far behind what most expected when this generation of systems hit. Running animations are not something we should have to complain about in 2009.

After AI, animations are the most important thing IMO. The game is just not convincing with unrealistic movement.

P.S. Many of the recent posts regarding running animations sort of re-enforce what Ian alluded to this time last year. June 2008, most of those within the community harped on line play, DB/WR interaction, and maybe game speed. Those items are all addressed as a result of the communities' complaints, yet now running animations are at the forefront of Madden's issues in the communities' eyes. Funny stuff.

Except that the line interaction is still pretty bad. The DTs don't get any push. The DEs take way too long to get up field. There's no where enough mobility in engaged blocks. Outside of the limited steering and ONE real trap block I've seen, not much has changed.

And I haven't noticed much DB/WR jostling in any of the vids either.

[spankdatazz22]

Re: Madden NFL 10: Updated Running Animation

P.S. Many of the recent posts regarding running animations sort of re-enforce what Ian alluded to this time last year. June 2008, most of those within the community harped on line play, DB/WR interaction, and maybe game speed. Those items are all addressed as a result of the communities' complaints, yet now running animations are at the forefront of Madden's issues in the communities' eyes. Funny stuff.

While many are saying running animations, I think what's meant are the animations in general. It's sort of like the tackling that people complained about for years. Yes it's the tackling, but it's deeper than that - it's the way the players interact, not just how many people can join into a tackle for the end result. While the CB/DB interaction has been improved, DBs seem to exhibit pretty bad form, being able to backpedal nearly fully upright while keeping up with receivers that are supposedly running full speed forward. And it's difficult to see if they actually interact on the fly. The line play has been improved, but it remains to be seen how much the lack of on the fly multiple player interaction/double team blocking will hurt (if it hurts at all). Players in general seem to lack the need to plant appropriately for directional changes. QB form on passes; QB movement in the pocket. We've seen the discussions about the lack of true analog movement.

Most if not all of the things above are animation/lack of momentum issues. They're attempting to address some of the problems but it remains to be seen if it's anywhere close to the level it needs to be. I would think someone would be able to look past the gorgeous graphics and say "that doesn't really look right". That hype vid they just released has a lot more wrong with it than ball carrier animations.

[boooey]

Re: Madden NFL 10: Updated Running Animation

now this is what I am talkin about! These animations look awesome! Don't tell me this doesn't look like fun!

[NFLHITMAN]

Re: Madden NFL 10: Updated Running Animation

I DIGRESS!!!

After looking at the thread from last year on Madden 10 wishlist ( http://www.operationsports.com/forum...st-thread.html ) I apologize to Ian and his crew because he gave them exactly what was important to everyone that posted on that thread. After reading through the first 2 pages of that thread and not seeing Running Animations it was clear why it was not a priority. The community at large did not agree that Running Animations were a must fix. Looking at the thread I also see that just about everything that the community asked for on that list Ian and his crew made happen!

GREAT JOB IAN!!

Hopefully Madden 11 will make Running Animations there #1 priority!

[LAKE4742]

Re: Madden NFL 10: Updated Running Animation

I DIGRESS!!!

After looking at the thread from last year on Madden 10 wishlist ( http://www.operationsports.com/forum...st-thread.html ) I apologize to Ian and his crew because he gave them exactly what was important to everyone that posted on that thread. After reading through the first 2 pages of that thread and not seeing Running Animations it was clear why it was not a priority. The community at large did not agree that Running Animations were a must fix. Looking at the thread I also see that just about everything that the community asked for on that list Ian and his crew made happen!

That's not good enough. I personally won't be held responsible for doing any devs job. If EA doesn't know what makes a good football game, that's their problem, and they won't get my $60.

GREAT JOB IAN!!

Hopefully Madden 11 will make Running Animations there #1 priority!

That's not good enough. I personally won't be held responsible for doing any devs job. If EA doesn't know what makes a good football game, that's their problem, and they won't get my $60.

Beyond the first 2 pages , running animations are mentioned plenty, BTW.

[bang911]

Re: Madden NFL 10: Updated Running Animation

That's not good enough. I personally won't be held responsible for doing any devs job. If EA doesn't know what makes a good football game, that's their problem, and they won't get my $60.

Beyond the first 2 pages , running animations are mentioned plenty, BTW.

Are you serious?

There is a reason running animations have only come up recently... everything else has gotten that much better!

[EPatetta]

Re: Madden NFL 10: Updated Running Animation

now this is what I am talkin about! These animations look awesome! Don't tell me this doesn't look like fun!

lol thats gold

[RGiles36]

Re: Madden NFL 10: Updated Running Animation

I don't think it's about preference guy, I think it's about solid football foundation. Certain things need to be addressed before other things. I would have gladly given up a nine man tackling animation and/or a fumble button mash mini-game for some good realistic running. A 2-3 man tackling scenario would have been good enough if it meant getting some good running out the game.

I'm pretty sure that running is not just "now" getting the communities eyes. Infact....
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...post2038692512
and in then
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...post2038693822

that's just a few posts I've made about it. I know i'm not the only one.

You may disagree with me, but I stand by my "It's all about preference" comment. Feel free to pull out a few posts here or there, but I was on this board HEAVY around wishlist time for Madden 10. Running animations specifically were not mentioned as frequently as some of core aspects of the game such as line play and interactions.

I DIGRESS!!!

After looking at the thread from last year on Madden 10 wishlist ( http://www.operationsports.com/forum...st-thread.html ) I apologize to Ian and his crew because he gave them exactly what was important to everyone that posted on that thread. After reading through the first 2 pages of that thread and not seeing Running Animations it was clear why it was not a priority. The community at large did not agree that Running Animations were a must fix. Looking at the thread I also see that just about everything that the community asked for on that list Ian and his crew made happen!

GREAT JOB IAN!!

Hopefully Madden 11 will make Running Animations there #1 priority!

^^This is all I'm saying. The overwhelming majority of this community (and others) was line play and DB/WR interactions.

Now guys, don't box me into a Pro-EA corner. I've been a 2K supporter and advocate since the Dreamcast days. When 2K's sports games are compared to EA's, 2K's almost always (if not all the time) animate better. I never disputed that and I won't until proven otherwise. My point is simply when it comes to running animations specifically, don't pretend the community listed this as priority #1-3 several months ago when that certainly wasn't the case.