Can't we all just get along?

[Ian_Cummings]

I was writing a response to this thread and it got deleted before I could respond to this guy. Typically I don't humor posts like this, and I'm glad it got deleted since it is pretty ridiculous, but I figured you all + the BackBreaker community should get a look at where I'm coming from. I think people may want me to have some sort of vendetta against BackBreaker, but unfortunately I do not. I've stated it before - I've met a bunch of those guys and I respect the hell out of what they do. Torsten is a hell of a good dude.

Anyway - response below.

way back when, EA specifically stated one of the reasons Madden opted not to go with a euphoria driven game was because it was simply not possible to animate all 22 players on the field.

I don't think I ever said this. We never "opted to not go with a Euphoria driven game" as far as I know, and definitely the reason wouldn't be for it running on 22 people. Anyone have a link for proof?

and yet every time Backbreaker is brought up to you, Ian, you make some smart remark about something... or if the devs post a short vid, you make a crack at it, and post another short vid of madden doing the same thing...

I have a very unique position of actually knowing quite a bit about animation technology (been working directly with football game animation, motion capture, and various animation technologies for 6+ years) so I just assume that members of the community would like to see the positives and negatives of both technologies. I'm not sitting on a high horse...I respect everything those guys are doing. Also, we need to have more fun in the gaming industry...we're not bankers for god's sakes. i.e. me putting an image of a gang tackle in a Game Gear

If I am wrong with anything, I'd like to know about it so I don't say false stuff (hence why I asked Torsten via Twitter to correct anything I've said). But working in the industry this long I live and die by the facts - I still haven't seen a player get-up, still haven't seen a "real" wrap tackle (only big hits and pile-on gang tackles), still haven't seen an unedited gameplay video.

I've said this many times - I want nothing but the best for Backbreaker. If you actually read my posts carefully you can see I'm not bashing them in the slightest - I just have my doubts and I've already stated my reasons why. That's honesty - it's not me trying to spin them in some negative light. Euphoria does plenty of stuff that Madden's physics & animation systems can't do - no question about it. I just am anxious to see how reliably and consistently Euphoria can handle simulation football.

Any time a company pushes the envelope, it's always a good thing. As much as some folks may want to paint me in a negative light, I actually want them to succeed to better the sports gaming industry as a whole.

Regardless, I can't wait to see the great posts on BB's forums here shortly that just say "wow what an idiot".

[Obelysk]

Re: Can't we all just get along?

wow what an idiot.

[RyanMoody21]

Re: Can't we all just get along?

Ian, tone is usually impossible to judge via text. I can tell you personally, every time BB was brought up, it seemed to me you had a smart or even arrogant remark ready to go. At nothing else it gave me the impression that you didn't respect your soon to be competition.

Respectfully, if I was a lead designer (which I'm not) I would have my own product flawless before I started questioning others in the same field. Even if my motive was to be helpful, people often take things out of context and things get blown out of proportion.

[T9R]

Re: Can't we all just get along?

I think a lot of the tension comes not from the animosity between developers between football games, but the fact that the only NFL football game we can buy as consumers is from you guys at EA/Tiburon.

We as consumers want to see several different approaches to creating an NFL sim, and for reasons that outside of your guys' control that isn't possible.

I think people tend to unfairly equivocate corporate/"higher up" animosities between football dev teams that don't really exist between the actual devs themselves.

[Tecahl]

Re: Can't we all just get along?

Ian, can I simply ask if it's impossible to simply apply the last-gen engine to the next-gen games?

[turfguy23]

Re: Can't we all just get along?

Man, if only William Clay Ford Sr. had this type of interaction with his devoted fans maybe HE could put a better product on the field. The Madden franchise is setting the bar with fan interaction. I've been a fan for 20 years and this type of stuff only strengthens my faith in this game and where it is going.

[doctorhay53]

Re: Can't we all just get along?

You are in the unfortunate position of being a Madden developer.....therefore your opinions about other games are under more scrutiny. People don't want you to have a vendetta against BB, they simply expect it from you because they think that is how they would feel. To many people on the other end of the gaming industry, 'competitive products' = 'competitive attitude'. People are simply filling in your comments about BB with their own expectations for your attitude towards it.

[PGaither84]

Re: Can't we all just get along?

[Ian said some solid stuff]
[...]I just am anxious to see how reliably and consistently Euphoria can handle simulation football. [more solid stuff]

I just am anxious to see how reliably and consistently Madden [and your ANT animation softwear] can handle simulation football.

<object width="480" height="385">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/7a8oMyLhYhw&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></object>

<object width="480" height="385">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/OqekddPN76g&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></object>

<object width="480" height="385">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cMyRbP3IT0g&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></object>

<object width="480" height="385">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/lXUC7m0qAkc&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></object>

Just to show a few.

Also E3 footage shows lots of examples of terrible Offensive line play. However, your "fix" about the weapons curve may fix this, as of today I can't recall seeing any evidence that these problems don't exist anymore or are at the very least, uncommon or rare.

[jdr4693]

Re: Can't we all just get along?

I would have my own product flawless before I started questioning others in the same field.

So true. Madden team should not be talking trash until they can at least get simple run blocking down(from your video moody)

[splff3000]

Re: Can't we all just get along?

Maaan, Ian, you gonna go crazy listening to all these folks around here. Don't worry about that stuff, man. You gonna get an ulcer or something and end up in the hospital or worse yet, you might have to take time off from the development of next year's game. Then we're gonna be right back where we started. So let that stuff go man because I'm really looking forward to Madden next year. Oh and this year too, but more so next year.

[Obelysk]

Re: Can't we all just get along?

Ian, can I simply ask if it's impossible to simply apply the last-gen engine to the next-gen games?

I hear people ask this a lot, but what exactly are you asking by this? How is this going to help the game?

[Crawi]

Re: Can't we all just get along?

So true. Madden team should not be talking trash until they can at least get simple run blocking down(from your video moody)

It's your own opinions that he's talking trash, it's not fact. He tries to be professional with unprofessional people. He's not comparing Madden to BB, the people he's responding to are.

[Nicknam4]

Re: Can't we all just get along?

Your title is the words of Torsten. Coincidence? =/

Anyway, have you seen Tackle Alley Ian? I don't know what you mean by editing, if you mean editing as in CGI, none of the videos are edited, if you mean editing as different clips put together instead of one big clip, well that's how trailers usually are. =/ The game isn't even in Alpha yet.

Obviously though you haven't look at the videos enough if you still think there are no wrap tackles.

And I really don't get why that thread was so delete worthy. He only said he lost respect for you because of how whenever Euphoria comes up you kinda put it down and act like "Well, Euphoria is ok, but Pro Tak is better because of ____"

I completely agreed with his post, there was nothing ridiculous about it.

[Ian_Cummings]

Re: Can't we all just get along?

So true. Madden team should not be talking trash until they can at least get simple run blocking down(from your video moody)

To re-iterate (to you and Moody), we aren't "talking trash". The thread was "which would you choose - backbreaker or Pro-Tak", and I chose that opportunity to explain Euphoria in a little more detail (and the flaws as I see them) and actually pose the question to the community as to which they'd prefer. If the majority wants Euphoria, then I can go use that when making decisions towards the future. Instead, many people use that situation to start a war rather than actually help sway future design direction.

PS - you can't make a flawless game.

[Tecahl]

Re: Can't we all just get along?

I hear people ask this a lot, but what exactly are you asking by this? How is this going to help the game?

The last-gen engine, while certainly not flawless, was actually better and I don't see any reason why it had to be changed unless it was simply impossible to do.

I enjoy the hell out of games like Madden 2004 and 2005 and hell, even the "last-gen" versions of 06-09. I just think it would be better for the game overall to go back to what was working and not simply trying to patch something that isn't.