FIFA 10 Preview

[Bahnzo]

Re: FIFA 10 Preview

Murkurial, you make some very good points. But please refrain from insulting those of us who do post in this forum by insinuating that we don't grasp soccer because we don't post with latent hostility towards EA/FIFA. I think many of us agree with you that 08 was a better all-around experience and my 360 would back that up in the number of hours it spun each game.

In summary, we'd all like to hear what you have to offer, but we can do without being talked down to...

Agreed. I actually agree with many of his points about the game, but his message delivery system is flawed.......

I played almost 1000 games of 08 online. And less than 50 of 09. For whatever reason, EA took the great advancement that was 08 and turned it into an arcade version. Very disappointing. It's nothing but a mad dash up and down the field with super defenders.

The fact is this....EA sells more copies of FIFA than Madden, which is the only true feedback they listen to. If it's selling lots, then they figure they are doing something right. All you have to do is go back a few years when PES/WE was outselling FIFA and forced EA to rethink their game. I'm holding out hope for 10, but honestly if it's just 09 with some "back of the box" features, then it won't be a good game of soccer and I'll have to hope PES continues it's improvement.

[KG]

Re: FIFA 10 Preview

Agreed. I actually agree with many of his points about the game, but his message delivery system is flawed.......

I played almost 1000 games of 08 online. And less than 50 of 09. For whatever reason, EA took the great advancement that was 08 and turned it into an arcade version. Very disappointing. It's nothing but a mad dash up and down the field with super defenders.

The fact is this....EA sells more copies of FIFA than Madden, which is the only true feedback they listen to. If it's selling lots, then they figure they are doing something right. All you have to do is go back a few years when PES/WE was outselling FIFA and forced EA to rethink their game. I'm holding out hope for 10, but honestly if it's just 09 with some "back of the box" features, then it won't be a good game of soccer and I'll have to hope PES continues it's improvement.

I agree with some of his points too but I disagree with his notion of EA marketing FIFA as a sim. Yes, they call it "the most realistic game out" but I think that is because of all the licenses like someone else mentioned. I think the notion of a true "sim" footy game would turn a lot of casual gamers off. There needs to be that balance of sim and fun or ways for the sim crowd to tune the game towards their liking.

A lot of '09's problems online were because of the game speed and the 5 minute ranked matches (halves). It is impossible to expect a realistic game (flow, pace, tactics, etc...) in a match consisting of 5 min halves. This is the reason why I don't play ranked matches any more but defer to 10 min halves on slow speed vs a fellow OS'er. We even tried a few matches on manual passing and we got manageable scores (2-0, 1-0, etc...) and realistic shots on goal and target.

Offline it's possible but you're dead on about one thing, pressure. Pressure needs to be toned down immensly. You shouldn't have to constantly pound the "2nd defender" button nor should the CPU chase you around the pitch.

FIFA still has a lot of work to do but I'll reserve my judgement on '10 until the demo and retail versions come out.

[dorismary]

As always great stuff Chaser I probably wont have time to pick it up but I will get the World Cup Version in summer 10 which was a even better add on during the last WC

[lunacraz]

i think fifa 09 is mad realistic, and im very excited to see what the next reincarnation is going to be. i dont get these gripes on the full press- high pressure means more open lanes in the back, and more open guys up front.

and you guys make it seem like holding the ball is one of the hardest things ever. honestly, even with the crappy control i have now, it is VERY easy to hold up a ball against one defender (does ANYONE use the shield button at all), but if you have two defenders coming after you, of course you're going to lose the ball, as it would happen in real life

again, i dont see what the big gripe is. i do make those long through passes from deep within my midfield to theirs, but thats only when theyre open. i go through the center of the midfield ALL THE TIME. you just need to be aware of where the pressure is and where it's coming, so if you have to make a pass you can one touch it, or you can turn the right way

you really can go about it both ways in the game i feel like. i've had ronaldo dribble past the whole team and score of a kickoff before. at the same time ive made sick one two plays and through balled it into the box after some good build up. ITS HOWEVER YOU WANT TO PLAY and fifa 09 has been awesome

[Murkurial]

Re: FIFA 10 Preview

nuckles and merkurial - only real problem with your post is high-horse approach to the rest of us... you insult the fans of the video game as being less passionate, less informed, and less experienced in football.

all games have their critics. dont buy the game, which you probably won't. and i do hear what you are saying about madden. but there is a huge difference between madden and FIFA. what makes football the greatest game in the world is the free form aspect of the game as well as the creativity involved at the macro (team) and micro (player) level. why they call it the beautiful game and its players referred to as "artists." the cominbation of these factors make it a very iterative and nuanced game... more so than ANY sport out there. american football has plays, which basically means 10 seconds of action then a reset. baseball and cricket... obvious.

my point is that to translate such an iterative and nuanced game into a video game requires very detailed AI code. exponentially more detailed than most sporting games, i would guess. but its what we have. i would love a true sim that allowed me to build up play, detect weaknesses, and set ups, real fatigue *which requires real managerial decisions*, and we are not even talking manager mode yet! what about form? this si huge part of real footie....

i do think that football games should not be yearly price grabs. give fifa team 2-3 years to make a great game (basically what WE did!) and give paid for roster updates and some patches.

do you make it old trafford every year?

If any of my posts smacked of condescension I'll apologize for that right now.

I think you'd agree that a game that allowed build up play and detection of weaknesses actually was 08. It wasn't perfect but it was certainly headed in the direction. That game that you say you'd love to play, was already about until they kind of took it a completely different (and arcadey) extreme.

On the issue of form, I think they're actually implementing that for MM this year. But that's one of the few changes to the mode because I guess they were too busy creating practice mode and the set-piece creator, along with 360 dribbling.

As for that last part, I don't really agree with the argument that I have to actually get to the game frequently (when I live on the other side of the pond) to be considered a true fan. If that's in fact what you mean't, excuse me for jumping the gun if you weren't as I get that far too often from anyone I talk to from the UK. It's bad enough being an American to some of them, but being a fan of "soccer" and a fan of Man Utd, lol, I'm really in trouble then.

I agree that soccer as a sport allows for a ton of different combinations and possibilities on the pitch but can you really explain why EA don't seem to be trying to replicate any of that. It's pretty clear that your techincal players like Scholes/Pirlo/Iniesta don't matter in the midfield. Hell, your midfield doesn't even matter as you can't hold the ball up without getting rammed off of it. The aspect of soccer that we see in FIFA is what happened in precisely two games in the whole of last season's EPL campaign, end-to-end matches that ended in 4-4 and featured some pretty mind-boggling mistakes for both teams in the 'Pool/Spurs and 'Pool/Gunners matches. That's NOT how every game plays all the time. It's not even how games go most of the time. That's my gripe.

It just gets annoying when people praise the game so much because it's FUN. I like a fun game as much as the next person but on some level ignoring all of FIFA's shortcomings, or writing previews (not just on this site) that praise the game to no end when it hasn't become apparent that they're actually tweaking the game in the manner that they should, simply because it's, as one guy put it "the most fun you've ever had playing a sports videogame," kind of shows that you don't really know what the sport is about.

That's not me trying to be a jerk, I'm just saying that if you look at soccer in this game, it should become apparent that this isn't how the sport is always played yet it's praised to no end because it's so much fun. Imagine if Madden reverted back to the "take a fast QB and just run, run, run" era. Every sports game developer, including EA and Rutter, are preaching realism. Like someone said, the games only really realistic because of the authentic kits, stadia, and teams but I don't think the dev crew believe that. I think they seriously believe, or at least know that the casual crowd who don't know the sport will hear that "most realistic game" line and eat it up because they don't know how it should play.

I'd certainly welcome some sliders but that probably won't help with online. Thing is all the talk from the devs at other sites seem to point towards them actually wanting to make the game sim, but then impressions from a number of guys who got to play the game early at playtests and what not, seem to say otherwise (for instance techincal midfielder are still not very effective and the run at a guy and ram him off the ball technique is still in the game).

i think fifa 09 is mad realistic, and im very excited to see what the next reincarnation is going to be. i dont get these gripes on the full press- high pressure means more open lanes in the back, and more open guys up front.

Are you on the 360 or PS3? I'd be interested to go against you to see how you play the game.

[southernbelle]

Re: FIFA 10 Preview

you don't even live over here? mate, be careful passing judgment on football (not 'soccah' ) expertise while being yank following man u.

It's pretty clear that your techincal players like Scholes/Pirlo/Iniesta don't matter in the midfield. Hell, your midfield doesn't even matter as you can't hold the ball up without getting rammed off of it.

could agree more here! you are spot on as far as technical mid fielders go... having csec doesnt matter!

[Murkurial]

Re: FIFA 10 Preview

you don't even live over here? mate, be careful passing judgment on football (not 'soccah' ) expertise while being yank following man u.

Can't tell if you're joking or not but you do realize that being British doesn't equate to having your brain wired in a way that allows you to understand a sport more than someone from another region.

For the record, I've been playing since I was 4 and had an English guy as our assistant coach during HS. I watch matches from every league whenever it's on and considering soccer isn't buried in convoluted rules like other sports it's not exactly difficult to follow, understand, an consequently have a legitimate opinion on.

But this conversation could take up a thread of it's own so I'll leave it there. The English also coined the term "soccer" by the way. Not Americans.

Would my opinion matter more if I supported a team in the bottom half of the table?

[lunacraz]

I'm on xbox 360, let me know if you are too

And honestly, i think its just how you can play the game. i play very different depending on the team. If i'm barcelona, or arsenal, i play VERY posession oriented. i very regularly get up to 60-40% possession in games no matter who i'm playing against. the thing is many people dont have the patience to pass BACKWARDS. you have to be patient for someone to make a run.

if i'm playing someone with a big target man, like munich, inter, or chelsea, i usually go down the wings and cross it back middle

the only gripes i have with fifa is the dribble control, switching on the fly, and the goalkeeping. the defending i usually take care of myself

i find many of the gripes here coming from people who get cheesed a lot online. i get cheesed a lot online too, freak long through balls, stupid half field goals. but whatever. if you play it right, more often times than not you'll just live with the BS and win

[Murkurial]

Re: FIFA 10 Preview

Yeah, im on the 360 as well, gamertag is MercSqd if you wanna play a few matches.

[ChaseB]

For the record, I've played soccer since I was 4 (I'm now 21) -- not that it should really be relevant to the topic at hand, but I was getting the impression from a couple people that I was somehow uneducated or did not watch/understand/play the sport....And that couldn't be farther from the truth.

[southernbelle]

Re: FIFA 10 Preview

Would my opinion matter more if I supported a team in the bottom half of the table?

if you have spent time in England you would understand the disdain long term fans have for man U fans that have never seen old trafford. football is real regional, as in if your from london, depending what area its west ham, spurs, blues, or gunners... etc. just be aware if you ever find your self in a pub in England watching the footie. i am not one of those guys... enjoy your sport and your team... we will see how they get by next year without CR. though my club lost a big guy this weekend, so we all have to cope with the market...

i just find it humorous that a guy that speaks down to others about their knowledge of footie supports Man U from the US. once again, a culture thing as in if that was done at the local pub what would happen... i know you say it has to do with understanding of what a SIM is, but it did not come across that way. regardless, you make good points, i just think a football sim is incredibly hard to make because of what makes the sport so amazing... fluid. iterative. nuanced. (and jam that into AI!!!) i played 08 (all the time - PES was broken!) i could never get over the fact that all the players felt like they were on rails... cant please em all

[Mad 69]

I'm hoping for an improvement in FIFA 10, I think FIFA 09 was a step backwards from 08. If the pacing/buildup is fixed, this has to be a better game. Some Manager Mode upgrades are also long overdue.

[Murkurial]

Re: FIFA 10 Preview

if you have spent time in England you would understand the disdain long term fans have for man U fans that have never seen old trafford. football is real regional, as in if your from london, depending what area its west ham, spurs, blues, or gunners... etc. just be aware if you ever find your self in a pub in England watching the footie. i am not one of those guys... enjoy your sport and your team... we will see how they get by next year without CR. though my club lost a big guy this weekend, so we all have to cope with the market...

i just find it humorous that a guy that speaks down to others about their knowledge of footie supports Man U from the US. once again, a culture thing as in if that was done at the local pub what would happen... i know you say it has to do with understanding of what a SIM is, but it did not come across that way. regardless, you make good points, i just think a football sim is incredibly hard to make because of what makes the sport so amazing... fluid. iterative. nuanced. (and jam that into AI!!!) i played 08 (all the time - PES was broken!) i could never get over the fact that all the players felt like they were on rails... cant please em all

I frequent a soccer oriented message board and know full well how frowned upon it is to be a United fan from America. Unfortunately I've never been given a legitimate reason besides what I perceive to be a general dislike of Americans by everyone in the UK. I suppose maybe you could shed some more light on the situation but all I hear, even when I play Team Play on FIFA is "wait, so you're American...that means you don't know **** about football..." I know that as United fan from the States people will frown upon it for whatever reason but I find it odd when I certainly wouldn't frown upon an English person who suddenly became a fan of the Patriots or the Steelers.

And as for the talking down part, I still maintain that if you think, as some people, and numerous outlets seem to, that FIFA is without it's flaws and is an actual realistic representation of the sport, you don't know much about it. Obviously you, Chase, and a number of others here do notice the issues so that isn't directed at you.

But once again...me being a United fan from America doesn't have much, if anything, to do with my knowledge of the sport. I didn't just start following them after the did the double back in 07/08. I didn't hear from someone that Manchester United was the **** and decided to jump on the bandwagon. I know that no matter what I say, people will feel that way but it's a terrible argument. I still support the Fire here in Chicago, in fact those are the first club matches I attended when I initially got into soccer and I've also been playing the sport since I was 4 (now 23). I like a ton of teams of various styles but I support one. Because that team happens to be United, I somehow can't have an opinion on the sport anymore, or at least I can't presume to have more knowledge of the sport than someone else? I think it's got less to do with me being a United fan, and more to do with me being American.

[southernbelle]

Re: FIFA 10 Preview

Unfortunately I've never been given a legitimate reason besides what I perceive to be a general dislike of Americans by everyone in the UK. I suppose maybe you could shed some more light on the situation but all I hear, even when I play Team Play on FIFA is "wait, so you're American...that means you don't know **** about football..."

I think it's got less to do with me being a United fan, and more to do with me being American.

no - the deal with united goes much deeper. i live in London and if i supported united i would get as much **** (probably more) than you. they call them "glory seekers" over here. it has to do with football allegiance equals tradition. so, if you are from southhampton, you support them come high or hell water, hate the rest. has nothing to do with your football knowledge which seems high. just a funny, very regional thing in the EPL where regional pride takes hold beyond what is practical.

[Bahnzo]

Re: FIFA 10 Preview

no - the deal with united goes much deeper. i live in London and if i supported united i would get as much **** (probably more) than you. they call them "glory seekers" over here. it has to do with football allegiance equals tradition. so, if you are from southhampton, you support them come high or hell water, hate the rest. has nothing to do with your football knowledge which seems high. just a funny, very regional thing in the EPL where regional pride takes hold beyond what is practical.

Maybe you in England then need to realize that here in America those things you mentioned have nothing to do with that over here. We're not from Southampton or Newcastle and for the most part ManU is the featured game shown on TV here 80% of the time. It's no wonder that a lot of Americans follow ManU, it's the team they know and see. And what you describe is nothing special, it's the same here for our sports, especially NFL.