Breaking Down Sliders... How They Really Work

[booker21]

Re: Breaking Down Sliders... How They Really Work

Sliders are starting to give me a headache!

I'm convinced you can see realistic stats on any slider set (unless you zero out the QB accuracy or something). As evident by the hundred slider sets on this forum, and everybody claiming "sim" and realistic stats, I don't think it really matters what slider settings we actually use in terms of stats.

I think the only thing sliders can tune in Madden is the "feel" or look of the gameplay.

For example, one slider set maxes out the CPU to 100 on everything and keeps the user at default Pro. Realistic stats overall.

Other example, just now I zeroed out every slider except for QB Accuracy (15) and WR Catching (45). The game actually played out really nice, lol. My stats again seemed to be spot on. In fact, the gameplay felt very natural. There was pressure on the QB's. I had 3 sacks and so did the CPU. Both QB's (Bulger and Shaub) were in the 55-60% range. The CPU actually rushed and had good yardage.

So I don't even know anymore, haha. Hopefully guys like Bill and DrewBledsoe can chime in on what they think about starting at all zeroes and adjusting one by one? Like obviously QB accuracy can't be at 0, but it seems like everything else is playable on 0 and doesn't affect the gameplay in any negative way. Maybe it evens the playing field and lets players act according to their attributes? On top of all this, I still don't know what to have the speed threshold at.

Anyway, I just wanted to throw that in there for discussion purposes and see what you guys have to say. I hope I'm not "hijacking" Bill's discussion/sliders.

sliders are a pain!

as you said there are many settings you can get realistic stats.
If that is the case, my advice is, stick with the simpler (sp) slider set.

The less you tweak, the better.


On the other hand i find the cpu unable to run on default settings, so for this, tweaking sliders are a welcome.

[bill2451]

Re: Breaking Down Sliders... How They Really Work

I've been messing around with a hybrid of g2thecore sliders and playmakers, one thing that I have noticed is I don't think the break tackle slider applies to protak, I have managed to break out of protak gang tangles with regularity even with this slider at 0. Has anybody else noticed this?

that would not surprise me

[bill2451]

Re: Breaking Down Sliders... How They Really Work

I believe I hinted at the fact that tons of different slider combinations can all produce "realistic" stats in my original post... why is that...

my entire point was that while yeah you can get realistic stats with all kinds of combination of sliders, its usually an unrealistic way in which those stats are achieved... boosting one setting to make up for the lack in another

the result is good stats and maybe even fun gameplay, but pretty unrealistic gameplay nontheless... you all know exactly what i'm talking about

and seeing how everyone is always boasting "sim sliders", I decided to try a different approach and see where it took me... realistic stats are one thing, lots of people achieve that (my original "just wing it to get good stats" sliders worked out well for that purpose), but I am trying for something more

now i realize there will be limitations because you can't fix/change everything... however I dont think anyone has ever come close to actually trying to replicate the interactions between players by figuring out what each slider really does and adjusting accordingly, and that's what i'm trying... it obviously wont be perfect, but if it actually reflects the way players react in the NFl and the way games are played better than anything else, i'd be very happy

[pbz06]

Re: Breaking Down Sliders... How They Really Work

sliders are a pain!

as you said there are many settings you can get realistic stats.
If that is the case, my advice is, stick with the simpler (sp) slider set.

The less you tweak, the better.


On the other hand i find the cpu unable to run on default settings, so for this, tweaking sliders are a welcome.

Yea, we just need to get it to play and look right. Like the reactions of the CB's, MLB's...or how the blocking works. Bill is on to something with the "suction" blocking etc. and he seems like he has a great understanding of how the game works. I'm going to follow this thread and keep testing. In my real games though for now, I'm using DrewBledsoe's and following his thread, heh, until we all decide on a great slider set. I think he's following this thread too.

Madden feels like an untuned sports car. The potential is there

[booker21]

Re: Breaking Down Sliders... How They Really Work

I believe I hinted at the fact that tons of different slider combinations can all produce "realistic" stats in my original post... why is that...

my entire point was that while yeah you can get realistic stats with all kinds of combination of sliders, its usually an unrealistic way in which those stats are achieved... boosting one setting to make up for the lack in another

the result is good stats and maybe even fun gameplay, but pretty unrealistic gameplay nontheless... you all know exactly what i'm talking about

and seeing how everyone is always boasting "sim sliders", I decided to try a different approach and see where it took me... realistic stats are one thing, lots of people achieve that (my original "just wing it to get good stats" sliders worked out well for that purpose), but I am trying for something more

now i realize there will be limitations because you can't fix/change everything... however I dont think anyone has ever come close to actually trying to replicate the interactions between players by figuring out what each slider really does and adjusting accordingly, and that's what i'm trying... it obviously wont be perfect, but if it actually reflects the way players react in the NFl and the way games are played better than anything else, i'd be very happy

yeap, but as you said, there will be sacrifices.. example you may get a perfect DL/OL interaction, without suction blocking and all.. but the cpu may not run well with that setting..
I`m already seeing this problem without playing...

I would like to get a set so i can test but i don`t have one :P

[pbz06]

Re: Breaking Down Sliders... How They Really Work

yeap, but as you said, there will be sacrifices.. example you may get a perfect DL/OL interaction, without suction blocking and all.. but the cpu may not run well with that setting..
I`m already seeing this problem without playing...

I would like to get a set so i can test but i don`t have one :P

I think the CPU run game is spotty regardless. Even with Run Block at 100.

So that's why it's better (IMO) to get rid of the suction blocking. I would rather have the game feel and play better because some things (hard coded game programming) are just unfixable. Like I said in an earlier post, putting most of the sliders to 0 felt a lot better than maxing out anything. Better physics, animations, reactions, player movement. The game felt a little more natural. It also seems that most of Bill's sliders seem to be gravitating towards the low end of the spectrum, so it might all make sense soon. I don't want to make slider changes to artificially produce realistic stats. I want the game to feel real.

Of course this can all be placebo, haha.

[booker21]

Re: Breaking Down Sliders... How They Really Work

I think the CPU run game is spotty regardless. Even with Run Block at 100.

So that's why it's better (IMO) to get rid of the suction blocking. I would rather have the game feel and play better because some things (hard coded game programming) are just unfixable. Like I said in an earlier post, putting most of the sliders to 0 felt a lot better than maxing out anything. Better physics, animations, reactions, player movement. The game felt a little more natural. It also seems that most of Bill's sliders seem to be gravitating towards the low end of the spectrum, so it might all make sense soon. I don't want to make slider changes to artificially produce realistic stats. I want the game to feel real.

Of course this can all be placebo, haha.

all sliders at 0 ? WR catching and QB acc aas well?

if this get you realistic stats i`m in!

[pbz06]

Re: Breaking Down Sliders... How They Really Work

all sliders at 0 ? WR catching and QB acc aas well?

if this get you realistic stats i`m in!

Well in my test game, I had QB Accuracy at 15, and WR Catching at 45. Everything else at 0. The QB accuracy and WR catching obviously can't be at 0. But everything else seems to just be either ratings boosts or suction triggers. The game still plays out. You still see broken tackles and pass rushing etc.

Try it out. I'm at work...but you can see bill's theory holding true. I was pretty impressed with the results.

It could have just been "one game" taking place. But either way I think it's a good starting point in testing the sliders one by one. Start bu zero-ing it out and tweaking from there. I think it's better to start at 0 and work up, rather than the other way around.

[DrewBledsoe]

Re: Breaking Down Sliders... How They Really Work

Well in my test game, I had QB Accuracy at 15, and WR Catching at 45. Everything else at 0. The QB accuracy and WR catching obviously can't be at 0. But everything else seems to just be either ratings boosts or suction triggers. The game still plays out. You still see broken tackles and pass rushing etc.

Try it out. I'm at work...but you can see bill's theory holding true. I was pretty impressed with the results.

I'm interested to see how it's going after a few games PB. I'd test them out myself, but too busy tweaking human rushing in my own sliders atm

[booker21]

Re: Breaking Down Sliders... How They Really Work

I'll try this but I'll use 5acc and 50catchibg. I just want to se more overthrows.
If qb plays too bad I'll rise it to 10 and then 15

by the way I don't switch on defense and on offense I play with rb and qb no one else

[jshrop16]

Re: Breaking Down Sliders... How They Really Work

bill...I have been reading your theory for the past two days and have really enjoyed it. I have not had time to test and attempt to be apart of your research because of work and family, but would really like to join you in your quest to develop the most realistic gameplay possible.


What current slider are you looking at?

[shadox]

Re: Breaking Down Sliders... How They Really Work

I'll try this but I'll use 5acc and 50catchibg. I just want to se more overthrows.
If qb plays too bad I'll rise it to 10 and then 15

by the way I don't switch on defense and on offense I play with rb and qb no one else

From a simple testes view, that wouldn't make sense at all...you can't compare result if you change the parameters, but I still expect that you get good stats/results.

From what I see/understand, (like in every sport game) the sliders determine the triggerpoint for a the calculation (taking into account the ratings) which decides which animation to trigger.

E.g. for the tackle slider....the slider determines the range, on which the animation (shortend it here) is allowed to trigger.

On Tackling 0, the Tackle animation is triggered within a very short range, means when the players are very close to each other.
At Tackling 100, the animation is triggered quiete early, so that even if you are 2-3 yrds away, the tackling itself is already triggered.

The outcome of the tackle itself, or the triggered following animation (succesfull block or slip) is determined by the algorithm which takes into account the ratings (and the user input).

One interesting thing, that bill mentions earlier, is the "cheat to win" mechanic applied on most sport games. Without any sliders, just different difficulty levels, the CPU gets some advantage on higher levels...I think most of us know this problem as "stats boost for CPU".

On Madden, for some sliders (thx to bill for this), there is no stat boost. But higher slider settings (for som,e.g. tackling) triggeres the animation more early=less reaction time...because the enginge already enganged the situation.

(Note: More to this later by bill. This guy really knows what he's talking about)

[booker21]

Re: Breaking Down Sliders... How They Really Work

as most people says, no matter what slider you use the outcome is not bad at all.

Played everything at 0 except for QB acc 5, Catching 50 and Fumble 50.

These were the results

Rams 24 vs Bills 31

Passing Yds 210 / 321
Rushing yds 142 / 172 (long 79)

Passing
Bulger 21/35 214yds 60% 2TD 0Int
Edwards 23/35 321yds 65% 1TD 1int

Rushing
Jackson 20-106yds 5.3avg
Lynch 21-156yds 7.4avg (long 79)

My complain... cpu passing yds is too much.. maybe it is because there was NO PASS RUSH at all.
I called a cover 2 and the QB had easy 10 sec to throw.. the WR reach the endzone, come back.. went to the sideline, went back to the middle of the field.. and after that.. the pass was complete.

Remember i don`t switch.

But this aside the game is very playable at these settings as well.

[pbz06]

Re: Breaking Down Sliders... How They Really Work

Just from that, you can try lowering WR Catching to 40 or so in order to create a couple more dropped passes.

Pass rushing seems to be an issue with the programming....lots of slider sets and lots of complaints about this everywhere. I get pass rushing occasionally, and 2-3 sacks here and there, but controlling manually seems to be the "best" way.

What if you keep the same settings but raise pass rush to 25? 50? 100? I wonder how that would play out.

[OJsakila]

Re: Breaking Down Sliders... How They Really Work

ok im at work typing this on my phone so just bare with me...i set up bill's sliders early this morning and only was able to play one game only. the feel of the game with the ''proposed'' slider settings was
the best ive had yet. actually with these much lower settings i had it rough against the cpu. i was the one that couldnt run. using marion barber useually nets me a great running game but i barley put up anything at all. jacobs of the giants ran all over me for 173 yds. first play from scrimage he ran about 70 for a td. after that he seemed to play normal with good stats...with a small amout of tweaking it looks like the way ti play. good job and ill be keeping tabs on this thread