NHL 10 Demo Available, Post Impressions Here (360 & PS3)

[Spanky]

Re: NHL 10 Demo Available, Post Impressions Here (360)

The on ice graphics seem to have taken quite a hit. Maybe next year they can bump those up a lot.

Shirley, you're not serious?

The graphics appear to be the exact same as last year. In other words, the best in any XBox 360 game. Even if for some reason you think they're not as good, to say they've taken quite a hit -- you need your vision checked immediately.

[Dean3790]

Re: NHL 10 Demo Available, Post Impressions Here (360)

I heard several chants, I think:
"Let's Go Red Wings!''
"We want the Cup!''
"MVP, MVP, MVP!''

I heard organ and arena music.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but were the chants and organ music in 09?

Organ music was in 09.

[born_bad]

Re: NHL 10 Demo Available, Post Impressions Here (360)

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it usually the case that the people working on the gameplay are different than the people working on the presentation?

I believe that's the case. So, assuming (for now) that that's true - what is the reason they couldn't have made some improvements and changes to things like the cut scenes? What reason could there be that in the months of development, the team that works on improving graphics and presentations just decided, "Nah, we're good. We'll keep using the same cut scenes we've used the last few years. 09 looks good so our job is done."

For those saying the game already looks great and gameplay is the focus. I agree the game already looked great. However, if it is a separate team handling that, aren't there some improvements they could have made, so it at least looks like a different game from 08/09 on the surface. Is every cut scene the best they can possible be already, so there's no reason to ever change them? Of course not. So, why weren't they changed?

I feel like sports games on the Xbox/PS2 did a better job of making it seem like you were getting a new game each year. I look forward to the gameplay improvements, but I also look forward to seeing the action in a new way from the previous game (like different camera angles for replays, new cut scenes, different ways of displaying in-game stats, etc.).

So, I know they made improvements, but I played a *ton* of 08 and 09, so for the game to be presented the exact same way feels a little stale to me, depsite the gameplay improvements.

[sanders]

Re: NHL 10 Demo Available, Post Impressions Here (360)

Overall I think the gameplay is really good and dynamic because of the puck physics. I tried on Normal and Hardcore and Normal was definitely better. On Hardcore the passes were soooo sloooow. I assume you will be able to use sliders to change it though. I like how shots feel this year compared to last year. This year when you work the cycle and take shots from different spots it actually makes sense to do.

There was one thing which is my biggest pet-peeve of this years and last years game. When playing on defense I know the guy is going to cut to the slot so I take it away holding the left bumper. The player cuts to the middle like expected and stick and arms move right through my defensmans entire body as he skates to the slot. If I take away the cut to the middle he should have to go wide not just be able to move right through me. Maybe instead from now on I'll just lay the body but I'm trying to take away the cut to the slot without risking whiffing on a check.

[TDKing]

Re: NHL 10 Demo Available, Post Impressions Here (360)

Do we know if the "Battle for the cup" mode is going to be available as an online mode?

[allstar3970]

Re: NHL 10 Demo Available, Post Impressions Here (360)

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it usually the case that the people working on the gameplay are different than the people working on the presentation?

I believe that's the case. So, assuming (for now) that that's true - what is the reason they couldn't have made some improvements and changes to things like the cut scenes? What reason could there be that in the months of development, the team that works on improving graphics and presentations just decided, "Nah, we're good. We'll keep using the same cut scenes we've used the last few years. 09 looks good so our job is done."

For those saying the game already looks great and gameplay is the focus. I agree the game already looked great. However, if it is a separate team handling that, aren't there some improvements they could have made, so it at least looks like a different game from 08/09 on the surface. Is every cut scene the best they can possible be already, so there's no reason to ever change them? Of course not. So, why weren't they changed?

I feel like sports games on the Xbox/PS2 did a better job of making it seem like you were getting a new game each year. I look forward to the gameplay improvements, but I also look forward to seeing the action in a new way from the previous game (like different camera angles for replays, new cut scenes, different ways of displaying in-game stats, etc.).

So, I know they made improvements, but I played a *ton* of 08 and 09, so for the game to be presented the exact same way feels a little stale to me, depsite the gameplay improvements.

i think you're oversimplifying it. Do you think that the presentation team was sitting around just said "ehhh F it" this year?

I would imagine its a matter of resources available, and where to allocate them...(esp in this economy) gameplay or presentation? I'd take gameplay. I'm sure if it was the other way around people would say "all i care about is if it plays realistically"

[born_bad]

Re: NHL 10 Demo Available, Post Impressions Here (360)

i think you're oversimplifying it. Do you think that the presentation team was sitting around just said "ehhh F it" this year?

I would imagine its a matter of resources available, and where to allocate them...(esp in this economy) gameplay or presentation? I'd take gameplay. I'm sure if it was the other way around people would say "all i care about is if it plays realistically"

So, that's my question, though - if the team that does presentation wasn't sitting around saying "F it." What were they doing? The changes are minimal at best.

Your comment about resources available I don't really get because your implying they had to make a choice - either work on gameplay or presentation. We're establishing that's not the case because the team that works on gameplay doesn't work on presentation. That choice doesn't really exist and they could have (and, IMO, should have) improved both... like every other sports game usually does each year.

[Jgainsey]

Re: NHL 10 Demo Available, Post Impressions Here (360)

Just got a couple of games in and... Wow! I played them on hardcore All Star and the realism makes last years game look like a complete arcade title. The puck is free and loose, and the passing is a huge step up from last year. I love how you can control the power and it seems like the direction too. Add in the board play and I'm in hockey heaven. This game plays so more like real hockey than any other game I've ever played. I'm sold NHL 10 and I can't wait to pick it up first day.

[sanders]

Re: NHL 10 Demo Available, Post Impressions Here (360)

I love that you can actually do saucer passes now. Big step up there.

[Kid_Roll]

Re: NHL 10 Demo Available, Post Impressions Here (360)

So, that's my question, though - if the team that does presentation wasn't sitting around saying "F it." What were they doing? The changes are minimal at best.

.

It's pretty obvious to me. Camo. Helmets.


As for the demo, I loved a lot of things about it.

Pros:

-Leg kick animation is sweet (assuming you don't click it every second)
-Small animations like your guy bending over and reaching out to snag a stray puck, freaking awesome.
-More goalie animations, hurray! Osgood did a nice standing kick save last night that wasn't in 09, in homage to Bill Ranford I assume, and it was very slick.
-The puck being slower and the shots being slower, yes yes yes!
-the puck does indeed feel far more loose. When you shoot the puck on the goalie it doesn't feel like it gets sucked into the goalie like it did last year
-I scored a goal under the goalies arm, this made me happy
-Shots from the point are far more lethal now, due to the screening of the goalies, and the fact rebounds can be shot at. Half of my goals so far have been rebound goals. I actually found myself playing defense in order to clear loose pucks! That is pretty awesome. I also found myself not wanting to shoot the puck on the net unless there was traffic in front. A good sign the dev's did a good job on that aspect.


Cons:

-The board play button being mapped to the "facewash/take a penalty" button. Awful awful awful decision. At times I would leave board play too early or try and get board play initiated, and I guess this angered Zetterberg as he would just snap and scream at me and start pummeling on Malkin or rubbing his dirty gloves in Malkins face, thus giving me penalties. You would think they would learn to never to put a potential penalty button on any game mechanic that you would be using often...like last years body checking fiasco on loose pucks.....

-The leg kick re-positions your guy to have a better angle when shooting on net. So if you're coming in on the goalie at a bad angle you can leg kick and your guy resets himself after that into a better shooting position, IMO. Not a huge thing, but I don't want to see people leg kicking all over the place when in the slot or beside the net.

-The worst worst worst thing? The freaking, I can't believe they did this, auto pass on hardcore settings. You can only hold down the pass button for like a second and a half before your guy just prematurely passes all over his face and sends that puck flying. So you see a guy skating down the wing and you want to send the puck ahead of him, but you want to wait for him to put a bit more distance between the d-man and the OH SORRY YOU WAITED TOO LONG YOU LOSE, YOU PASSED THE PUCK. Ugh. I found myself using the saucer pass (RB pass) the entire time instead. I don't know if there is a way to change this setting, but having it auto pass the puck like that after 1.3453453 seconds was really really frustrating and didn't feel very intuitive

-The CPU still passes that puck around a mile a minute, cycling like crazy. On this one I assume sliders can fix it, but still, it was really annoying to watch the computer cycle the puck at 100mph around the ice, leaving me chasing the puck everywhere





Anyways, the positives outweight the negatives, it's just better to write about the negatives as something can be done about them next year, hence the tone of my post. The game feels like 09, but you can see a bunch of small things adding up to make it a far better game. It's like Winning Eleven used to be like, the game wouldn't change much year to year at a first glance, but the more you play it, the more subtle changes you notice. I hope it is that way with NHL 10.

[Redshirt_EA]

Re: NHL 10 Demo Available, Post Impressions Here (360)

So, that's my question, though - if the team that does presentation wasn't sitting around saying "F it." What were they doing? The changes are minimal at best.

Your comment about resources available I don't really get because your implying they had to make a choice - either work on gameplay or presentation. We're establishing that's not the case because the team that works on gameplay doesn't work on presentation. That choice doesn't really exist and they could have (and, IMO, should have) improved both... like every other sports game usually does each year.

The size of the presentation and gameplay "teams" is still a resource allocation decision. We can't have our cake and eat it too.

There were presentation improvements (e.g. crowds, to mention an obvious one), they are just in proportion to the investment we made there.

[Kid_Roll]

Re: NHL 10 Demo Available, Post Impressions Here (360)

The size of the presentation and gameplay "teams" is still a resource allocation decision. We can't have our cake and eat it too.

There were presentation improvements (e.g. crowds, to mention an obvious one), they are just in proportion to the investment we made there.

Obviously as people outside the business I am sure a lot is said that leaves you guys grumbling and shaking your head, but I think it's fair point that at least the cut scenes could have been changed a tad. If I have to see a goalie do a little skate one more time....

It really does make it feel like you are playing last years game when you see the same cut scenes from last years game.

Though again, I literally have no idea how the business works (aside from the horror stories my friends have told me of extra hours that are put in as the game nears release), so I don't know how much time would have to be put in to make a different cut scene.

*shrug*

[Redshirt_EA]

Re: NHL 10 Demo Available, Post Impressions Here (360)

Obviously as people outside the business I am sure a lot is said that leaves you guys grumbling and shaking your head, but I think it's fair point that at least the cut scenes could have been changed a tad. If I have to see a goalie do a little skate one more time....

It really does make it feel like you are playing last years game when you see the same cut scenes from last years game.

Though again, I literally have no idea how the business works (aside from the horror stories my friends have told me of extra hours that are put in as the game nears release), so I don't know how much time would have to be put in to make a different cut scene.

*shrug*

Yeah, that's fair enough. There was work done on cut scenes, there are definitely some new ones, but I'm not too qualified to talk about any of that -- I tend to skip them instantaneously myself out of habit.

When comparing NHL to other games keep in mind that the resources a dev team has are generally proportional to their revenue (and that's definitely the case where the sales trends are well established, as they are with a game that is in its 18th(?) year). There are other factors as well, of course, but on the whole NHL is a pretty lean team and has to pick its battles. I think the emphasis on gameplay in the last few years has been a wise choice, there's always more we can do but at some point it will be more value to transfer more effort to presentation.

[sanders]

Re: NHL 10 Demo Available, Post Impressions Here (360)

Great post - I totally agree about the auto pass.

I didn't like how the tap left trigger to push the puck ahead works. I like the idea but I think it could have been implemented better. I think if you tap it then it should push the puck ahead a bit like it does. If you hold it down you should be able keep skating with the puck on the end of your stick. (Players do this all the time when trying to burst by a guy) You wouldn't be able to change direction while holding the trigger without losing the puck and defensive players would be able to lift your stick easily or bump you off the puck easily.

I think this would be a great representation of what guys really do on the ice. Am I right?

[Kid_Roll]

Re: NHL 10 Demo Available, Post Impressions Here (360)

Yeah, that's fair enough. There was work done on cut scenes, there are definitely some new ones, but I'm not too qualified to talk about any of that -- I tend to skip them instantaneously myself out of habit.

When comparing NHL to other games keep in mind that the resources a dev team has are generally proportional to their revenue (and that's definitely the case where the sales trends are well established, as they are with a game that is in its 18th(?) year). There are other factors as well, of course, but on the whole NHL is a pretty lean team and has to pick its battles. I think the emphasis on gameplay in the last few years has been a wise choice, there's always more we can do but at some point it will be more value to transfer more effort to presentation.

To back up a point I made earlier, it's far too easy for us out there to be negative than it is to be positive, so hopefully you guys realize you made an awesome game, you just have to deal with us hockey nutters who are far into hockey and are a little bit insane about our gaming.

So yeah, for sure you guys did the right choice. I mean, look at the NHL series during the Warfield Era Of Death, all you heard about the NHL series was "All they care about are pretty games! They don't care if it plays like hockey!" So it's almost like you can't win at times, as now that you only work on gameplay, we have presentation issues. Especially when you guys (And this isn't trying to suck up, it's just the truth) have been one of the MOST interactive dev groups to actually talk to the community and listen to the community. So it's almost like you open up the floodgates for all of our complaints and whatnot.

So yeah, if there are logistical choices to be made on the allocation you guys make for your team, please always choose gameplay.


And yes, I skip the cut scenes too, but even seeing the begining of the same cut scene of Osgood doing his little circle skate makes me angry.