Speed Threshold Talk!!!!!!!!

[Ram209]

Mods if this needs to be in the slider forum then please move it.


OK I see all this talk about speed and "sim" speed and such. Let me make one thing clear about speed and forty times. I used to coach High School and Junior college football. The difference between a guy running a 4.4 to a 4.6 IS HUGEEEEE! This is why I think you have to play with the speed threshold between 0-15. The guy that is 94 speed should be a lot faster than a guy with 90 speed. If someone can bring up the charts Ian had on how they determine there speed based on 40 time. I am assuming that is the difference between a guy that runs a 4.3 and 4.5. Guys that is such a huge deal, it brings so much more realism to the game with threshold low or at 0. It actually brings a word we have not seen used in EA games for a long time.......STRATEGY! If a guy is 93+ speed and I have a corner who is 88-90 speed and has a low press coverage rating, you can bet your a$$ I am not playing bump and run. Cause as soon as the Rec gets behind him the DB SHOULD NEVER CATCH HIM!!! Same thing with crossing routes I am glad this year that a 80 speed Lb cant catch a 90 speed Rec. The biggest Difference between Randy Moss and the rest of the NFL SPEEEED. Please watch the whole VId

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Watch how he makes people look like they are standing still. The biggest defference between College and the NFL is SPEED and even though EVERYONE in the league is FAST. With threshold very low Fast players play fast and slow players play slow, novel concept I know! If my 92speed rec gets behind a 90speed DB the DB SHOULD NEVER BE ABLE TO CATCH HIM!!!!! if they are both running at full speed. Well thats my 2 cents!

[kcarr]

Re: Speed Threshold Talk!!!!!!!!

Mods if this needs to be in the slider forum then please move it.


OK I see all this talk about speed and "sim" speed and such. Let me make one thing clear about speed and forty times. I used to coach High School and Junior college football. The difference between a guy running a 4.4 to a 4.6 IS HUGEEEEE! This is why I think you have to play with the speed threshold between 0-15. The guy that is 94 speed should be a lot faster than a guy with 90 speed. If someone can bring up the charts Ian had on how they determine there speed based on 40 time. I am assuming that is the difference between a guy that runs a 4.3 and 4.5. Guys that is such a huge deal, it brings so much more realism to the game with threshold low or at 0. It actually brings a word we have not seen used in EA games for a long time.......STRATEGY! If a guy is 93+ speed and I have a corner who is 88-90 speed and has a low press coverage rating, you can bet your a$$ I am not playing bump and run. Cause as soon as the Rec gets behind him the DB SHOULD NEVER CATCH HIM!!! Same thing with crossing routes I am glad this year that a 80 speed Lb cant catch a 90 speed Rec. The biggest Difference between Randy Moss and the rest of the NFL SPEEEED. Please watch the whole VId

<object width="425" height="344">


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Watch how he makes people look like they are standing still. The biggest defference between College and the NFL is SPEED and even though EVERYONE in the league is FAST. With threshold very low Fast players play fast and slow players play slow, novel concept I know! If my 92speed rec gets behind a 90speed DB the DB SHOULD NEVER BE ABLE TO CATCH HIM!!!!! if they are both running at full speed. Well thats my 2 cents!

Actually, 95 is 4.37 and 90 is 4.48 so that puts 94-90 somewhere around 4.39-4.48 which is a difference of about .9 yards per 40.

The biggest difference between college and the nfl is speed, yes, but that is because in college only some players more fast whereas in the nfl way more of the players are so really speeds should be closer in the nfl than in college. Also, most of it is reaction speed, not straight-line speed that seperates the college game from the nfl. It isn't like the players get way faster after they go pro. The difference is the players who suceed at the nfl level learn to anticipate and therefore make their decisions quicker allowing them to better use their speed.

[Ram209]

Re: Speed Threshold Talk!!!!!!!!

Actually, 95 is 4.37 and 90 is 4.48 so that puts 94-90 somewhere around 4.39-4.48 which is a difference of about .9 yards per 40.

The biggest difference between college and the nfl is speed, yes, but that is because in college only some players more fast whereas in the nfl way more of the players are so really speeds should be closer in the nfl than in college. Also, most of it is reaction speed, not straight-line speed that seperates the college game from the nfl. It isn't like the players get way faster after they go pro. The difference is the players who suceed at the nfl level learn to anticipate and therefore make their decisions quicker allowing them to better use their speed.

I agree with you 100%, but here is the thing why does Randy Moss and I hate to keep going back to him, but why does it look like the people who are chasing him look they are standing still. Moss I think runs in the 4.2 4.3 range back in his Viking days, and I guarantee none of those DBs run slower than a 4.5. But when you watch it Moss looks like he is running a 3.9 while the other guys are running a 4.8 I just think with threshold low it represents that part of the game better. Is it the right way to do it, maybe it maybe it is not but that is what were stuck with!

[LAKE4742]

Re: Speed Threshold Talk!!!!!!!!

The difference is the players who suceed at the nfl level learn to anticipate and therefore make their decisions quicker allowing them to better use their speed.

Exactly. Which is why the Threshold should be at 0. I've seen players keep up just fine (depending on their rating). The main time they get seperation is based off of their other skills, which is the way it is in real life, and the way it should be in a sim football game. Using the Threshold just provides a handicap for the opponent.

[kcarr]

Re: Speed Threshold Talk!!!!!!!!

One more thing right quick. If we consider the middle, default setting to be what they were using on their chart and then setting the threshold to 0 to be around the scale that Ian had for the default scale on rookie (the lowest threshold scale) then that would be lowering the 90 speed guys down from 4.48 speed to 4.8 speed. This means that by doing this you are lowering several starting cbs down to worse than 4.8 speed and putting guys like derrelle revis as shown in versus's video around that 4.8 speed.

[Exonerated]

Re: Speed Threshold Talk!!!!!!!!

I agree with you 100%, but here is the thing why does Randy Moss and I hate to keep going back to him, but why does it look like the people who are chasing him look they are standing still. Moss I think runs in the 4.2 4.3 range back in his Viking days, and I guarantee none of those DBs run slower than a 4.5. But when you watch it Moss looks like he is running a 3.9 while the other guys are running a 4.8 I just think with threshold low it represents that part of the game better. Is it the right way to do it, maybe it maybe it is not but that is what were stuck with!

Moss reminds me of Usain Bolt. Tall, lanky, very fast, unbelievable acceleration.

Except Bolt ran a 3.82 for his first 40 YARDS (NOT METRES) when he ran 9.58.

But yeah, speed is important, but anticipation and reaction time is the most important.

[Blue_Monkey]

Re: Speed Threshold Talk!!!!!!!!

I've actually raised the threshold to 75 at the moment because of the horrible pursuit angles. DB's just line up their pursuit right behind the ball carrier and never catch up.

And that brings me to the point that I just haven't seen any DB catch any ball carrier from behind with threshold at 50 (default). Shockey has been running away from corners at 50. So I raised the setting.

[shadox]

Re: Speed Threshold Talk!!!!!!!!

Treshld at 0 is ridiciclous,btw.
Make a speed test for your own...it's not like at Treshold 100 players wouldn't separate. Furtheremore, there a different initial animations for the run, one of them gives an advantage of about 0,5 yrd. By widen the threhold (0) that even becomes worst.

But thats only my 2 cents and also it depends highly on your game speed setting.

[LAKE4742]

Re: Speed Threshold Talk!!!!!!!!

I think the initial separation animations depends on the players' ratings in other areas. So, why not allow the players to play with their actual ratings, instead of having them dictated, or handicapped by another part of the engine.
If Randy Moss gets good separation against a low rated DB-ok. If a low rated receiver gets good separation against Rashean Mathis-there's a problem.
Other than that, play on!

[shttymcgee]

Re: Speed Threshold Talk!!!!!!!!

Moss reminds me of Usain Bolt. Tall, lanky, very fast, unbelievable acceleration.

Except Bolt ran a 3.82 for his first 40 YARDS (NOT METRES) when he ran 9.58.

But yeah, speed is important, but anticipation and reaction time is the most important.

No, he did not. You can not simply use a proportion to figure out split times. The rate of speed doesn't stay constant throughout the race, it starts out at ZERO, accelerates until about 30-40 meters and then starts to DECELERATE at about 65-75 meters. A 3.82 40 yards equals about an 8 sec 110 yards.

[Ram209]

Re: Speed Threshold Talk!!!!!!!!

I've actually raised the threshold to 75 at the moment because of the horrible pursuit angles. DB's just line up their pursuit right behind the ball carrier and never catch up.

And that brings me to the point that I just haven't seen any DB catch any ball carrier from behind with threshold at 50 (default). Shockey has been running away from corners at 50. So I raised the setting.

This HAS TO BE PATCHED. The pursuit angles is a borderline game killer! I cant stand it when I am heading for the sideline and a CPU defender has the angle on me then all of a sudden he turns and starts to chase me! Like I said this is a potential game killer and NEEDS TO BE PATCHED!

[MelMan1486]

Re: Speed Threshold Talk!!!!!!!!

This HAS TO BE PATCHED. The pursuit angles is a borderline game killer! I cant stand it when I am heading for the sideline and a CPU defender has the angle on me then all of a sudden he turns and starts to chase me! Like I said this is a potential game killer and NEEDS TO BE PATCHED!

This... it's not so much a gamekiller for me but I think it deffinetely needs to be patched. It's gotten to the point where if I know the defender has the angle I'll slow down so he can get the tackle.

[NoleFan]

Re: Speed Threshold Talk!!!!!!!!

This threshold talk is interesting. I've been playing random exhibition games trying to get my MySkill situated before I start a franchise and I switch the game speed to fast with the threshold at 0.

I'm coaching a game of ARI @ OAK (me) and Chris Johnson intercepted Matt Leinart (Warner out a few plays being evaluated) and took it back 43 yds for the score to tie the game @ 21 in the 3rd quarter.

What was so interesting about the return was the speed of it. Boldin and Breaston both chased Johnson to the endzone. Boldin has an 89 speed and I could see distance being created between he and Johnson during the return. Breaston, on the other hand, has an speed of 91 which is identical to Johnson and the distance between the 2 remained the same during the return. I thought that was intriguing.

[Faizon]

Re: Speed Threshold Talk!!!!!!!!

People would just run 90 degree angles with Chris Johnson all day lol. Nah, high speed threshold is the only thing keeping this game from being a track meet.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Speed Threshold Talk!!!!!!!!

No, he did not. You can not simply use a proportion to figure out split times. The rate of speed doesn't stay constant throughout the race, it starts out at ZERO, accelerates until about 30-40 meters and then starts to DECELERATE at about 65-75 meters. A 3.82 40 yards equals about an 8 sec 110 yards.

So... if they looked at his time and figured out that in the first 40 yards that he ran, it took 3.82 seconds, how did he not run a 3.82 second 40? That was his first 40 yards, not like he was already running and they tried to make a proportion by taking his total time and figuring out what it would have been on a 40.

And if he had a running start, they said his 40 yard time would be like 2.5 seconds or something like that. But they actually measured his first 40 yards and took his time from it, so I really don't see your point at all.