Defense in 2k10 really represents TODAY NBA STYLE

[sanghai2]

Re: Defense in 2k10 really represents TODAY NBA STYLE

I have noticed this too and I think 2K did a great job of capturing this style of defense but like the other poster said, open shots are way too easy to knock down in this game. Teams in the NBA average between 40% and 50% from the field. This doesn't happen in 2K unless you adjust sliders. Adjusting the shooting sliders also creates some "dumb misses". Things that miss that simply shouldn't.

This doesn't take into consideration that you can just rapid fire passes into the paint and score really easy. The game should be able to recognize when someone is playing lock down D on someone and make everyone else stay home unless the guy gets beat. 2K doesn't do that and I hope they can fix it. I'm ok with all of the help defense but not with the fact that the help runs all the way around the help situation and tries to position between the ball and the basket. That is ridiculous and can't happen because it makes the game almost unplayable at times.

Errr, aren't open shots meant to be hit easily? Players try to get open for a reason...Or you talking about layups?

[True Blue Titan]

Re: Defense in 2k10 really represents TODAY NBA STYLE

yea but when your sf leaves his assignment to double the center in the paint and just stands behind the guy thats getting backed down , tweaks out , helps in no way and watches the center kick it to a wide open jump shooter

something is wrong

open ur eyes

[Kaanyr Vhok]

Re: Defense in 2k10 really represents TODAY NBA STYLE

If you are a software company making and marketing a bball game, youd want the shooting %'s, flashy passes, etc to be higher than the normal %.

that's how you capture a casual fan, and new entrants into purchasing these games. the casual gamer and younger audience is larger than the hard core sim-head audience/customer.

believe it or not most gamers want the dunks, and high shooting %. they want highlights. that's what casual sports fans and gamers remember.

Customization, which is the path that 2k follows is the right approach.

believe it or not, there's only a handful of us true sim heads, and most of us visit websites like these.

watching the NBA, I can honestly say that 2k really does a good job capturing the atmosphere and game-play of the NBA.

Defense exists in this title, its all about adjustments, there arent only adjustments in the slider set, but during game play. folks need to utilize these features more.
subbing a good defensive player, subbing players to counter attack the AI's subs, etc all exist in this game, just like the NBA.

knowing when to double team, knowing when to play deny defense, call timeouts, etc.

this game can be a chess match. and the fun thing about it is, you can customize the game to make it as difficult as you want.

Traditionaly sports games that are seen as being more realistic sell more. If that wasnt true Madden would have never caught up with Tecmo Bowl, Live would have never outsold NBA JAM. PES would have never outsold Fifa, and Fifa would have remained the number 2 soccer game after becoming more of a sim. It didnt. When Fifa became more of a sim it outsold PES. EA's hockey incresed sales when it became more realistic. Fight Night sold more when they became more realistic. FN is still not much of a sim but the casual gamer doesnt know that.

This idea that they need to jack up the FG% to sell games is a baseless myth. All you need is a default lvl thats somewhat beginner friendly. Thats it. After that the more realism the the better. The key to selling sports games is realism. If you can convince the casual gamer that the game is just like the real sport you have them. You could have the funnest looking dunkfest next to it but if you have something that looks like the real NBA you win.

[bigpun23]

Re: Defense in 2k10 really represents TODAY NBA STYLE

are u saying then to play on everything at default then?

[tril]

Re: Defense in 2k10 really represents TODAY NBA STYLE

Traditionaly sports games that are seen as being more realistic sell more. If that wasnt true Madden would have never caught up with Tecmo Bowl, Live would have never outsold NBA JAM. PES would have never outsold Fifa, and Fifa would have remained the number 2 soccer game after becoming more of a sim. It didnt. When Fifa became more of a sim it outsold PES. EA's hockey incresed sales when it became more realistic. Fight Night sold more when they became more realistic. FN is still not much of a sim but the casual gamer doesnt know that.

This idea that they need to jack up the FG% to sell games is a baseless myth. All you need is a default lvl thats somewhat beginner friendly. Thats it. After that the more realism the the better. The key to selling sports games is realism. If you can convince the casual gamer that the game is just like the real sport you have them. You could have the funnest looking dunkfest next to it but if you have something that looks like the real NBA you win.

all those games are customizable to get a more sim like experience, which is primarily stats, and flow. Out the box none of the games you mentioned accomplish this.
They all have sim like presentation but all the % 's are higher in every category, out the box. and thats intentional by all these titles that you mentioned.
hockey-.i.e more shots on goal, more goals, harder hits, highlite saves, etc
madden-higher completion rates, higher yard per carries, easier to break tackles, catches etc.

PES is the only title that did well, but that's because soccer is such a niche type sports. Those that seek out soccer games are really die hard soccer fans, you never hear casual sports fans talk about buying a soccer game. thats a major difference. plus soccer is the number 1 sport world wide. that titles sells better over seas thn it does in the states, same thing for FIFA. if these titles were for the American consumer, the play by play wouldn't be done by folks with European accents.

soccer is a methodically slow sport, sim is easy to achieve, in a game, that again is a niche sports in the states.

cost to profit ratio works for soccer., when it comes to sim. In other sports it doesnt.

out the box -guarenteed if the shooting % in basketball games dropped to the 40% range, less dunks, more fouls, higher fatigue rates happened out the box. sales for these titles would eventually drop.

more folsk would complain about gameplay. O.S sim heads and the like is small segment.
They have analysts for this stuff.

it's a better strategy the way that 2k and EA are taking.

[MRNBA2k10]

Re: Defense in 2k10 really represents TODAY NBA STYLE

The DEFENSE in this game is comedy

[d12orlando]

Re: Defense in 2k10 really represents TODAY NBA STYLE

tril if you don't know nothing about soccer then do not make assumptions. It is obvious cos you think soccer is slow and easy to sim. Soccer is more tactical and strategic than basketball and a lot harder to replicate realistically in a game. Basic things like judging when to make forward runs, how hard to close down, mentality, maintaining defensive shape and most importantly 19 other off-ball players needing to adapt to who has the ball, where he is and opposition players is enough to test any AI logic system. Its a big pitch with lots of space that needs to be shut out and off-ball player positioning

And fifa is more sim than before but is still ways off from being realistic.

[MarvellousOne]

Re: Defense in 2k10 really represents TODAY NBA STYLE

Traditionaly sports games that are seen as being more realistic sell more. If that wasnt true Madden would have never caught up with Tecmo Bowl, Live would have never outsold NBA JAM. PES would have never outsold Fifa, and Fifa would have remained the number 2 soccer game after becoming more of a sim. It didnt. When Fifa became more of a sim it outsold PES. EA's hockey incresed sales when it became more realistic. Fight Night sold more when they became more realistic. FN is still not much of a sim but the casual gamer doesnt know that.

This idea that they need to jack up the FG% to sell games is a baseless myth. All you need is a default lvl thats somewhat beginner friendly. Thats it. After that the more realism the the better. The key to selling sports games is realism. If you can convince the casual gamer that the game is just like the real sport you have them. You could have the funnest looking dunkfest next to it but if you have something that looks like the real NBA you win.

You actually do make a valid point here. If you think about it, the casual gamer also wants a game to play as life like as possible just the big difference is they don't put as much emphasis on it being completely sim or not. Most of the time if you ask a person why they pick 2K over Live they would probably say "Because 2K plays more like actual basketball or looks more life like." Since to most people 2K is considered the more sim game over Live which a lot of people call "Cartoony and not realistic." These aren't just things we hear from just our community, I have a friend who I know isn't a die hard sim baller, but more of a casual gamer and he likes 2K over live because it plays better to him and he says Live is like playing NBA Jam all over again, and I know he doesn't get into the whole sliders ordeal.

[tril]

Re: Defense in 2k10 really represents TODAY NBA STYLE

tril if you don't know nothing about soccer then do not make assumptions. It is obvious cos you think soccer is slow and easy to sim. Soccer is more tactical and strategic than basketball and a lot harder to replicate realistically in a game. Basic things like judging when to make forward runs, how hard to close down, mentality, maintaining defensive shape and most importantly 19 other off-ball players needing to adapt to who has the ball, where he is and opposition players is enough to test any AI logic system. Its a big pitch with lots of space that needs to be shut out and off-ball player positioning

And fifa is more sim than before but is still ways off from being realistic.

the point isnt about knowing anything about soccer. your statement basically backs up what Im saying. thats what I meant by being more methodical. and soccer is such a niche sports that the developers go for the hard core soccer fans.

there are more casual fans/gamers in Basketball, and football. Thats why these games out the box play more arcadey, with sim style presentation. this is world wide, not just in the states.

casual fans and gamers, want the highlights.
There are very few casual soccer fans in the states. Its either you love it or hate it. most hate it and tolerate it on the weekends when they have to take their kids to soccer on the weekends. Also, highlights in soccer is far and few in between, thats why ratings are low in the states. the action is to methodical or as you put it, tactical, for the casual fan.

Im a foreigner in the states, the sports that my family grew up playing and watching is soccer, but Im just calling it as I see it.

not knocking soccer, cause we are talking about why Basketball games are more arcadey out the box.

again if the developers went with true sim out the box, the sale would slip. no casual fan or gamer wants to plod through a game.

again 2k and EA are developing these games the correct way. make the games as customizable as possible for the true sim heads, not the other way around. they'd lose money.

[Ballatician]

Re: Defense in 2k10 really represents TODAY NBA STYLE

Defense and NBA2K10 shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence. How can some say that 2K10 is great except for the defense? A title cannot be great if the gameplay is broken. Hopefully the patch can fix it because the presentation and options are truly revolutionary.

[DolfanDave]

Re: Defense in 2k10 really represents TODAY NBA STYLE

people here crying about defense is really not paying attention to the NBA hard. i think people dont want a simulation sports game, just a game that has the sport in it. defense has changed in the NBA, alot of defense are build around leaving assignments and closing out fast scheme.

many people here complain that players not staying on there man in 2k10. well in order to reflect REAL LIFE DEFENSE they have to follow suit. if anyone is watching the bulls and spurs game and just watch how BOTH teams play. you tell me just how close other players are from there assignment beside the ball handler majority of the time they are not even guarding them up close especially when they are not moving

i believe 2k is in a lose-lose situation. they try to capture TRUE LIFE styles but the consumers dont respect how the NBA plays

Here's the problem I have with this observation. The difference is players don't sag off players that are in/near the paint(happens in 2k10 all the time). But even more important than that is if I am the coach and I tell my players to not sag off but play tight, no help defense and no double team but they are still doing the exact same thing that means the game defense is broken plain and simple.

[TheSolutionKMH]

Re: Defense in 2k10 really represents TODAY NBA STYLE

Here's the problem I have with this observation. The difference is players don't sag off players that are in/near the paint(happens in 2k10 all the time). But even more important than that is if I am the coach and I tell my players to not sag off but play tight, no help defense and no double team but they are still doing the exact same thing that means the game defense is broken plain and simple.

those coach setting i believe more on when the players has the ball when u tell your defender to sag off or play tight. and they dont double team they just come over and eliminate a driving or post lane

[DolfanDave]

Re: Defense in 2k10 really represents TODAY NBA STYLE

those coach setting i believe more on when the players has the ball when u tell your defender to sag off or play tight. and they dont double team they just come over and eliminate a driving or post lane

You might be right but I tried every setting know to man to stop those guys from totally ignoring their players and I know help defense at zero means they shouldn't be sneaking over but they ignore that also. But this game has too much of an 'auto pilot' feel for me. The defense is the only major problem with this game for me and unfortunately that is a huge problem. Hopefully the patch will fix this.

[jeebs9]

Re: Defense in 2k10 really represents TODAY NBA STYLE

I think it awesome how they did it. Have you notice how the player react when certain players get the ball.

[Sovartus]

Re: Defense in 2k10 really represents TODAY NBA STYLE

Errr, aren't open shots meant to be hit easily? Players try to get open for a reason...Or you talking about layups?

Actually if you want to be real about it, most players only knock down less than 50% of unguarded open jumpers in real life. That number is even less off the dribble.

I think 2K is doing a great job of trying to represent real defense in the game but there are a few nuances that dystroy it. The defenders coming to help and running around behind the post player to get between him and the basket thing shouldn't happen and it hurts gameplay considerably. Here is an example of this: Rudy Leaves Kobe for no reason.

That was with all double team settings at "never" and the double team slider in coaching options at 0. There is no excuse for that. It can't be fixed by slider adjustments, because it is a flaw in the game. I have been a hardcore 2K fan for years and I played and coached organized basketball. I know what basketball realism is and 2K is close but missing a lot of elements. I like the game but a lot of you guys trip me out trying to sell a salesman. It's broken and they need to fix it. It's just that simple.