Madden NFL 10 Blog: 2nd Title Update Preliminary Details

[adam45h]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: 2nd Title Update Preliminary Details

It's clear you know alot about football, no doubt, but as it applies to this game I am inclined to disagree. You can EASILY torch the CPU for 400+ passing yards a game by throwing exclusively to the flats. I watched my little brother go somewhere in the neighborhood of 24 for 25 on passing attempts in the second half against the Steelers on sliders that even I was getting killed on in the first half, and I'm much better than he is. I realize there are alot of variables involved in what we're discussing here, but throwing to the flats and calling screens are known money plays until EA updates the coverage/awareness in those zones.

[CFav]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: 2nd Title Update Preliminary Details

Alright... Just to make things clear, cover 2 only refers to where the safeties play. They play 2 deep zones. Cover 3 means that you're now releasing a DB to play a 3rd deep zone... None of these mean that you should have anyone in the flats, so saying the generic cover 2 and cover 3 will stop the flats is false. The Cover 2 and Cover three are simply terms used to describe the safety play. As an example look at the generic Cover 2 in the 43, you'll notice that the two DBs are playing a flats zone, somewhat, and they should be playing a press, which to the best of my knowledge, it looks as though they are. This should slow down a screen just fine, it does for me and I generally play as a DE or DT to start. But it doesn't STOP it, it slows it down. Cover 2 Man Press works better to stop the screen, but it leaves the WRs a bit less covered.

Then if we go to a generic Cover 3, we see that the DBs are now dropping out into deeper zones, while the LBs cover the flats somewhat. The problem is that these are LBs and not generally the best cover guys, so it's a toss up if it works or not... The best bet to beat the screen is Man Press, or Cover 2 with the additional press before the snap. That and being aware enough to know that if it looks like you're getting to the QB to easy that you're getting set up for a screen should be all you need.

After that, there are all kind of containment plays in the 43 defence... I think most playbooks have over 30 plays in there. The containment options are all there, but you have to know your playbook to know what works and what doesn't...

But to simply throw out Cover 2 and Cover 3 is rather funny since they're just generic terms used to again describe the Safety play. As an example, you can have the Dime Cover 2, where the flats are covered, or you can have the Buccs/Bears Cover 2 with the MLB dropping back into a deep zone. But in the end, they're all cover two plays because of the safety play... Just like Quarters means that All DBs are dropping back splitting the secondary into 4 parts...

So with all of that being said, a known issue with the 2k series was that the screen passes didn't work at all since the only way you could get the ball to your back was to lob the ball to him... Trust me on this one, if you look up my other posts you'll see that I'm a huge 2K5 fan, but I admit where there were issues in the game. And when you add in the fact that the screens didn't work, and that they set up their cover 2 a little different, it isn't even a fair issue to discuss.

This entire "screens plays work too well" is all spurred from people playing poor D and exploiting the insane blitz plays in this game, resulting in players simply throwing short... End of story on that... If there were things that could be done against the blitz other then short passes then players would do it, but if you do anything more then slants and screens you get sacked... A lot of the time I see online guys play blitz for two or three downs and expect that like magic, the only time they play a zone or man, they're going to get what they're after. It's a joke and shows how many players rely on the blitz... Because 9/10 if you play against a player who doesn't know how to counter the blitz you're getting your sack. Logic like that results in players expecting that 9/10 times that they play a zone they'll stop everything that comes their way which isn't sim or realistic... It's just sad.

I'm not a huge Madden guy... I'm no genious, but I know football.

P.S. Also, as an issue for the 2K5, 2K allowed you to move your DBs in or out, as well as up or back, which would help, but that's not in this game, so it can't be used as a fix for this year...

Great post IMO SK.

[Swingking77]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: 2nd Title Update Preliminary Details

It's clear you know alot about football, no doubt, but as it applies to this game I am inclined to disagree. You can EASILY torch the CPU for 400+ passing yards a game by throwing exclusively to the flats. I watched my little brother go somewhere in the neighborhood of 24 for 25 on passing attempts in the second half against the Steelers on sliders that even I was getting killed on in the first half, and I'm much better than he is. I realize there are alot of variables involved in what we're discussing here, but throwing to the flats and calling screens are known money plays until EA updates the coverage/awareness in those zones.

And yet I stop people online, I stop the computer, and have had the computer hit me for losses on screens... Perhaps the sliders you have allow for this to happen.

[adam45h]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: 2nd Title Update Preliminary Details

And yet I stop people online, I stop the computer, and have had the computer hit me for losses on screens... Perhaps the sliders you have allow for this to happen.

I'm not saying it's hard to stop; it's certainly not. Good play-calling can certainly blow up any play. I'm just saying it's too easy to burn the CPU by using it against them. My sliders aren't really that in-depth, just moved the "Player Skill" ratings a few notches above All-Pro (I am definitely not a Madden stud). Even in a game I just played I had to stop myself from throwing to Sproles or LT in the flats because it's just not fair to the CPU, it's almost always open and alot of the time they can break a tackle or make a move and get some serious extra yardage.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, unless you pick from a very specific set of plays to stop the screen or pass to the flats, it seems to have a higher than normal completion rate and ends up going for more yards than you would typically see in a real game. But like I said, I'm no football guru, and you clearly know alot more about defensive sets than I do. I could absolutely be completely wrong about this! It just seems like it's too easy to take advantage of, like I'm cheating by throwing to anyone in that area.

[Tick32]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: 2nd Title Update Preliminary Details

Alright... Just to make things clear, cover 2 only refers to where the safeties play. They play 2 deep zones. Cover 3 means that you're now releasing a DB to play a 3rd deep zone... None of these mean that you should have anyone in the flats, so saying the generic cover 2 and cover 3 will stop the flats is false. The Cover 2 and Cover three are simply terms used to describe the safety play. As an example look at the generic Cover 2 in the 43, you'll notice that the two DBs are playing a flats zone, somewhat, and they should be playing a press, which to the best of my knowledge, it looks as though they are. This should slow down a screen just fine, it does for me and I generally play as a DE or DT to start. But it doesn't STOP it, it slows it down. Cover 2 Man Press works better to stop the screen, but it leaves the WRs a bit less covered.

Then if we go to a generic Cover 3, we see that the DBs are now dropping out into deeper zones, while the LBs cover the flats somewhat. The problem is that these are LBs and not generally the best cover guys, so it's a toss up if it works or not... The best bet to beat the screen is Man Press, or Cover 2 with the additional press before the snap. That and being aware enough to know that if it looks like you're getting to the QB to easy that you're getting set up for a screen should be all you need.

After that, there are all kind of containment plays in the 43 defence... I think most playbooks have over 30 plays in there. The containment options are all there, but you have to know your playbook to know what works and what doesn't...

But to simply throw out Cover 2 and Cover 3 is rather funny since they're just generic terms used to again describe the Safety play. As an example, you can have the Dime Cover 2, where the flats are covered, or you can have the Buccs/Bears Cover 2 with the MLB dropping back into a deep zone. But in the end, they're all cover two plays because of the safety play... Just like Quarters means that All DBs are dropping back splitting the secondary into 4 parts...

So with all of that being said, a known issue with the 2k series was that the screen passes didn't work at all since the only way you could get the ball to your back was to lob the ball to him... Trust me on this one, if you look up my other posts you'll see that I'm a huge 2K5 fan, but I admit where there were issues in the game. And when you add in the fact that the screens didn't work, and that they set up their cover 2 a little different, it isn't even a fair issue to discuss.

This entire "screens plays work too well" is all spurred from people playing poor D and exploiting the insane blitz plays in this game, resulting in players simply throwing short... End of story on that... If there were things that could be done against the blitz other then short passes then players would do it, but if you do anything more then slants and screens you get sacked... A lot of the time I see online guys play blitz for two or three downs and expect that like magic, the only time they play a zone or man, they're going to get what they're after. It's a joke and shows how many players rely on the blitz... Because 9/10 if you play against a player who doesn't know how to counter the blitz you're getting your sack. Logic like that results in players expecting that 9/10 times that they play a zone they'll stop everything that comes their way which isn't sim or realistic... It's just sad.

I'm not a huge Madden guy... I'm no genious, but I know football.

P.S. Also, as an issue for the 2K5, 2K allowed you to move your DBs in or out, as well as up or back, which would help, but that's not in this game, so it can't be used as a fix for this year...

Yea i know wat cover 2 and 3 means, but my point is that 2k5 new how to shut dwn the flats. i kept tryin to pass it there and the linebacker would bat the ball down or pick it everytime. tried it on madden and that wouldnt happen. even on all madden. so the patch should fix that.

[BlueNGold]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: 2nd Title Update Preliminary Details

Alright... Just to make things clear, cover 2 only refers to where the safeties play. They play 2 deep zones. Cover 3 means that you're now releasing a DB to play a 3rd deep zone... None of these mean that you should have anyone in the flats, so saying the generic cover 2 and cover 3 will stop the flats is false. The Cover 2 and Cover three are simply terms used to describe the safety play. As an example look at the generic Cover 2 in the 43, you'll notice that the two DBs are playing a flats zone, somewhat, and they should be playing a press, which to the best of my knowledge, it looks as though they are. This should slow down a screen just fine, it does for me and I generally play as a DE or DT to start. But it doesn't STOP it, it slows it down. Cover 2 Man Press works better to stop the screen, but it leaves the WRs a bit less covered.

Then if we go to a generic Cover 3, we see that the DBs are now dropping out into deeper zones, while the LBs cover the flats somewhat. The problem is that these are LBs and not generally the best cover guys, so it's a toss up if it works or not... The best bet to beat the screen is Man Press, or Cover 2 with the additional press before the snap. That and being aware enough to know that if it looks like you're getting to the QB to easy that you're getting set up for a screen should be all you need.

After that, there are all kind of containment plays in the 43 defence... I think most playbooks have over 30 plays in there. The containment options are all there, but you have to know your playbook to know what works and what doesn't...

But to simply throw out Cover 2 and Cover 3 is rather funny since they're just generic terms used to again describe the Safety play. As an example, you can have the Dime Cover 2, where the flats are covered, or you can have the Buccs/Bears Cover 2 with the MLB dropping back into a deep zone. But in the end, they're all cover two plays because of the safety play... Just like Quarters means that All DBs are dropping back splitting the secondary into 4 parts...

So with all of that being said, a known issue with the 2k series was that the screen passes didn't work at all since the only way you could get the ball to your back was to lob the ball to him... Trust me on this one, if you look up my other posts you'll see that I'm a huge 2K5 fan, but I admit where there were issues in the game. And when you add in the fact that the screens didn't work, and that they set up their cover 2 a little different, it isn't even a fair issue to discuss.

This entire "screens plays work too well" is all spurred from people playing poor D and exploiting the insane blitz plays in this game, resulting in players simply throwing short... End of story on that... If there were things that could be done against the blitz other then short passes then players would do it, but if you do anything more then slants and screens you get sacked... A lot of the time I see online guys play blitz for two or three downs and expect that like magic, the only time they play a zone or man, they're going to get what they're after. It's a joke and shows how many players rely on the blitz... Because 9/10 if you play against a player who doesn't know how to counter the blitz you're getting your sack. Logic like that results in players expecting that 9/10 times that they play a zone they'll stop everything that comes their way which isn't sim or realistic... It's just sad.

I'm not a huge Madden guy... I'm no genious, but I know football.

P.S. Also, as an issue for the 2K5, 2K allowed you to move your DBs in or out, as well as up or back, which would help, but that's not in this game, so it can't be used as a fix for this year...

Great, great post man. We need more posts like these in the Madden forums. I know football but TBH, there were a few things you mentioned I didn't know. Thanks.

[homeycool]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: 2nd Title Update Preliminary Details

Alright... Just to make things clear, cover 2 only refers to where the safeties play. They play 2 deep zones. Cover 3 means that you're now releasing a DB to play a 3rd deep zone... None of these mean that you should have anyone in the flats, so saying the generic cover 2 and cover 3 will stop the flats is false. The Cover 2 and Cover three are simply terms used to describe the safety play. As an example look at the generic Cover 2 in the 43, you'll notice that the two DBs are playing a flats zone, somewhat, and they should be playing a press, which to the best of my knowledge, it looks as though they are. This should slow down a screen just fine, it does for me and I generally play as a DE or DT to start. But it doesn't STOP it, it slows it down. Cover 2 Man Press works better to stop the screen, but it leaves the WRs a bit less covered.

Then if we go to a generic Cover 3, we see that the DBs are now dropping out into deeper zones, while the LBs cover the flats somewhat. The problem is that these are LBs and not generally the best cover guys, so it's a toss up if it works or not... The best bet to beat the screen is Man Press, or Cover 2 with the additional press before the snap. That and being aware enough to know that if it looks like you're getting to the QB to easy that you're getting set up for a screen should be all you need.

After that, there are all kind of containment plays in the 43 defence... I think most playbooks have over 30 plays in there. The containment options are all there, but you have to know your playbook to know what works and what doesn't...

But to simply throw out Cover 2 and Cover 3 is rather funny since they're just generic terms used to again describe the Safety play. As an example, you can have the Dime Cover 2, where the flats are covered, or you can have the Buccs/Bears Cover 2 with the MLB dropping back into a deep zone. But in the end, they're all cover two plays because of the safety play... Just like Quarters means that All DBs are dropping back splitting the secondary into 4 parts...

So with all of that being said, a known issue with the 2k series was that the screen passes didn't work at all since the only way you could get the ball to your back was to lob the ball to him... Trust me on this one, if you look up my other posts you'll see that I'm a huge 2K5 fan, but I admit where there were issues in the game. And when you add in the fact that the screens didn't work, and that they set up their cover 2 a little different, it isn't even a fair issue to discuss.

This entire "screens plays work too well" is all spurred from people playing poor D and exploiting the insane blitz plays in this game, resulting in players simply throwing short... End of story on that... If there were things that could be done against the blitz other then short passes then players would do it, but if you do anything more then slants and screens you get sacked... A lot of the time I see online guys play blitz for two or three downs and expect that like magic, the only time they play a zone or man, they're going to get what they're after. It's a joke and shows how many players rely on the blitz... Because 9/10 if you play against a player who doesn't know how to counter the blitz you're getting your sack. Logic like that results in players expecting that 9/10 times that they play a zone they'll stop everything that comes their way which isn't sim or realistic... It's just sad.

I'm not a huge Madden guy... I'm no genious, but I know football.

P.S. Also, as an issue for the 2K5, 2K allowed you to move your DBs in or out, as well as up or back, which would help, but that's not in this game, so it can't be used as a fix for this year...

While I agree with you when referring to football terminology, I have to disagree with you when speaking Madden play calling terminology. In Madden whenever a play says "Cover 2" there is always someone covering the flats via a zone. When a play is called "Cover 3" there are always players in flat zone coverage. If the play were man up on the outside it says "Cover 2 man" or "Cover 3 man" and there are many variations of these safety sets as you said, however if the play is called simply "Cover 2" or "Cover 3" there are ALWAYS players covering the flats. Again I am only speaking of Madden language here. I certainly do not disagree with anything you said accept only to point out that when someone says they need to fix "cover 2" or "cover 3", they are most likely speaking of the plays themselves, not the safety sets.

[Tick32]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: 2nd Title Update Preliminary Details

While I agree with you when referring to football terminology, I have to disagree with you when speaking Madden play calling terminology. In Madden whenever a play says "Cover 2" there is always someone covering the flats via a zone. When a play is called "Cover 3" there are always players in flat zone coverage. If the play were man up on the outside it says "Cover 2 man" or "Cover 3 man" and there are many variations of these safety sets as you said, however if the play is called simply "Cover 2" or "Cover 3" there are ALWAYS players covering the flats. Again I am only speaking of Madden language here. I certainly do not disagree with anything you said accept only to point out that when someone says they need to fix "cover 2" or "cover 3", they are most likely speaking of the plays themselves, not the safety sets.

Some1 knows wat im talkin about

[Swingking77]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: 2nd Title Update Preliminary Details

While I agree with you when referring to football terminology, I have to disagree with you when speaking Madden play calling terminology. In Madden whenever a play says "Cover 2" there is always someone covering the flats via a zone. When a play is called "Cover 3" there are always players in flat zone coverage. If the play were man up on the outside it says "Cover 2 man" or "Cover 3 man" and there are many variations of these safety sets as you said, however if the play is called simply "Cover 2" or "Cover 3" there are ALWAYS players covering the flats. Again I am only speaking of Madden language here. I certainly do not disagree with anything you said accept only to point out that when someone says they need to fix "cover 2" or "cover 3", they are most likely speaking of the plays themselves, not the safety sets.

Alright... Dime Bucs/Bears Cover 2... Any flats coverage? Nope... The terminology is right, but the expectation is off... In the basic cover 2 in the 4-3, you have twp DBs playing a flats zone, but they also have to cover WRs... If they run quick paterns, that are still within their area, they cover that player leaving the deep flats to cover the short routes... Leaving the HBs open, but that's the nature of the game. You gotta get a good ajm on them to slow them down. You can't cover everything. I know what you're trying to say, but it just isn't that simple. There aren't always guys in the flats in a Cover 2 in this game, or in real life. That one was just off the top of my head. The other that doesn't employ coverage in the flats and is a Cover 2 is the basic 3-4 Cover 2, everyone is of behind the LOS...

@Tick32

Again, the screens were broken in the game and didn't work, the players didn't run the routes well and the HBs only caught lobs, making it easier for a LB to bat it down... But the short game was alive and well in the game, trust me. BUT a big difference in these two games, I find, is the amount of blitzing which took place. You HAD to play smart D in 2K, making for a wide variety of plays being defended... This year, and years past, with Madden, the blitz rained supreme with little a player could do against it... All I'm saying is that there are a lot of ways of stopping these plays because I've done it, employing the ways which I included in the previous posts, and for the reasons which I also outlined. I think some people want to use their sliders more then the games original config, but then if something goes wrong, which their sliders may have caused, they want it addressed in a patch... Try increasing the D's awareness and reaction and you'll see stops... And if you're playing online, stop blitzing and employ press and man coverages and you'll get success, eventually. Maybe not everytime, but enough to get the job done...

P.S. I'm also very curious how many of you guys set your D matchups for your games... Makes a HUGE difference. You need the proper matchups. Choose a faster OLB to cover HBs, or a SS or FS... But then again, that's something that takes time to do and learn how to do it as well. But it makes all of the difference in the world... There is another thread on this as well. And what's also nice about doing this is that all those "wierder" packages that guys like to use don't matter anymore when you're playing man D Enjoy... Those of you who want to protest can do so, but there are a lot of people out there who are doing what you say is impossible simply by learing a bit about how the D works and how you can use the new options to better your chances...

[bigdfan76]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: 2nd Title Update Preliminary Details

Some1 knows wat im talkin about

Ok I see what you are saying. Good point. I missunderstood at 1st. Ex. I like to occasionaly use a play called "cover 2 sink". That play has no flat zones. But all the plays called "cover2" or "cover 3" DO have flat zones. Also I don't seem to have problems with the flats on D. Now I do not play online. I also consider myself a decent play caller. I also play with some amazong LBs. They have speed, strength, pass rush skills and some ahve good man and zone coverages, heck some of them can even press. Still they are not CBs. If it's a good team with a good RB, like the Eagles, then yes it's difficult to stop a screeen, it SHOULD be. I do think the pursuit angles need work. I am ahving alot of fun with Madden this year. It's the best one in a long time.

[CFav]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: 2nd Title Update Preliminary Details

Has anyone heard/read if the 2nd title update has been submitted to MS and SCEA?

I understand how difficult it can be to patch a title w/o a million other things going wrong in the process, but I am getting impatient here. I'm a sim player, who values true to life stats, so I just can't start my franchise until some things are addressed. It's week 9 of the season and Madden needs some serious dusting atm.

[BlueNGold]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: 2nd Title Update Preliminary Details

Has anyone heard/read if the 2nd title update has been submitted to MS and SCEA?

I understand how difficult it can be to patch a title w/o a million other things going wrong in the process, but I am getting impatient here. I'm a sim player, who values true to life stats, so I just can't start my franchise until some things are addressed. It's week 9 of the season and Madden needs some serious dusting atm.

Yeah it did. It's supposed to be coming out in the middle of this month.

[CFav]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: 2nd Title Update Preliminary Details

Yeah it did. It's supposed to be coming out in the middle of this month.

Thank you BnG. I appreciate the response my man.

[Nyrican127]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: 2nd Title Update Preliminary Details

Yeah it did. It's supposed to be coming out in the middle of this month.

good to hear

[stanley roper]

Re: Madden NFL 10 Blog: 2nd Title Update Preliminary Details

I could pretty much guarantee that after this patch is out, this is the last Madden i'll be playing unless I see some eye opening, innovative game play, like that of the 06 Madden commercials where they show a cgi Donny Mcnabb thinking it was real gameplay footage from 06 Madden.