Madden 10: AskMadden Tip of the Week

[Valdarez]

Re: Madden 10: AskMadden Tip of the Week

Picks happen in real life, on both other defenders and refs. While no team should admit to using it, it happens. Its also illegal and rarely called.

However, in Madden you can do it every single play and it works flawlessly. Defenders like Charles Woodson and Al Harris both look for picks in real life to try to avoid them. As this video illustrates, in Madden they run blindly into them.

In the video Desean Jackson smokes Woodson because Woodson simply runs directly into McCoy at the snap of the ball. Not only does he trail the whole play after this but shortly before the catch is made turns on a dime and runs toward the line of scrimmage before pursing again.

The end result is Woodson is now 5 yards behind in man coverage, after a 10 yard route that had only one cut . That video makes future HOF'er Woodson looks like the worst DB in the world and an unproven, underachieving WR look like the HOF'er.

I wont debate that speed means everything in Madden and certainly Jackson has more speed but anybody thinking this play has any hint of realism needs to take a clearer look at how Woodson and Harris play in real life.

If anything that video illustrates how static pursuit and route angles should have been a thing of past a long time ago.

This is why I wanted to lab it. If it happens every single time, it's clearly a bug, and not part of the game. EA has gone out of their way to keep the game clean as can be, there's no way they programmed the ability to execute illegal moves into the game.

[homeycool]

Re: Madden 10: AskMadden Tip of the Week

And though picks are illegal, teams get away with it 80% of the time at least.

86.3% of all percentages are made up.

[Valdarez]

Re: Madden 10: AskMadden Tip of the Week

86.3% of all percentages are made up.

No, it's 86% of all percentages are false.

[RyanMoody21]

Re: Madden 10: AskMadden Tip of the Week

This is why I wanted to lab it. If it happens every single time, it's clearly a bug, and not part of the game. EA has gone out of their way to keep the game clean as can be, there's no way they programmed the ability to execute illegal moves into the game.

I hate to say this but from what I have seen most Madden "Tips" (and this isnt reflective of the OP) seem to rely on exploiting the game, rather than real football strategies.

This video just happens to be a good example, regardless of how many people wanna sit around and justify it as realistic. Charles Woodson would never run directly into another receiver at the line of scrimmage. Bunch formation or not, in man coverage you have a firm understanding of who you cover.

Now if the other receiver had ran toward Woodson to cause the pick, thats one thing. However in this example is the Woodson that instigates the contact, almost as if he had no idea McCoy was on the field.

[northface28]

Re: Madden 10: AskMadden Tip of the Week

This is on the verge of getting out of control. You tell me to stay on topic yet you bring up another game (APF2K8) that has zero to do with what we are debating? I digress, the "pick" is the only suitable way to offset the superhuman bump and run coverage. Is it phony? Yes. However it is the viable option users have to get other users out bump and run plays all game. In theory it makes perfect sense ("pick plays"), the problem is the way its carried out in the game. I am done expecting the world from EA sports and just take Madden for what it is.

[jyoung]

In real life, I would say this is a legitimate strategy, but in Madden, it's definitely an exploit.

Reason being, this will get a receiver open against man coverage 100% of the time in Madden, whereas in real life, the DB would start looking for the pick and play it accordingly.

As for legit ways to beat press coverage in Madden, how about getting some guys on your team that have high release ratings instead of trying to beat it unrealistically with small, weak WRs?

Guys with a release rating over 80 will tear apart press coverage by getting off the line quickly and shoving the DB out of the way.

[Valdarez]

Re: Madden 10: AskMadden Tip of the Week

In real life, I would say this is a legitimate strategy, but in Madden, it's definitely an exploit.

Reason being, this will get a receiver open against man coverage 100% of the time in Madden, whereas in real life, the DB would start looking for the pick and play it accordingly.

As for legit ways to beat press coverage in Madden, how about getting some guys on your team that have high release ratings instead of trying to beat it unrealistically with small, weak WRs?

Guys with a release rating over 80 will tear apart press coverage by getting off the line quickly and shoving the DB out of the way.

So the release rating is what indicates how well they can get away from bump coverage? Makes sense. Ideally every team should have at least one WR with a high release rate then. I know when I play against good players in APF2K8 who employ Bump Coverage, I like to have a really good HB for flats / screens and a Bump Buster WR (especially true if my opponent is good at manual coverage).

North, I just reference APF2K8 because it's what I know best, that's all. It's pretty much my point of reference for all football related discussions, and ironically it's where I actually learned the concepts and strategies employed in football. I haven't played Madden online, so I don't know what does or does not work against human opponents, which is why I listed options that I thought should work and asked for clarification on whether they do or do not work. Playing against a human opponent is always different / more difficult than playing against the AI. What works against one may not work against the other, and vice versa at times.

[jyoung]

I try to stay away from the flats in this game because they are so cheap and broken, so yes, just throw to the one or two guys on your team who have high release ratings (most teams have at least one) and you will get your opponent out of press coverage very quickly unless he likes giving up easy pass plays over and over again.

Slant route + high release rating = 10 yards or more just about every time.

Or go for a streak/fade if there's no safety help over the top.

[KBLover]

Re: Madden 10: AskMadden Tip of the Week

Wouldn't this be offensive pass interference on #29 if we were mirroring the NFL?

#29 ran into the DB, impeding his path. I didn't think receivers could do that to DBs, especially intentionally. This wasn't incidental coverage or the WR routes causing the DBs to interfere with their own man coverage (a true rub route combination), or using the umpire as a "pick".

Also, why didn't the DB just follow the receiver across the formation? Why was he charging in like a blitz? If he was playing bump coverage, why is he 3 yds off the receiver? Hard to jam a guy when you're 12 feet away from him.

That seems more like bad pathing more than a true pick/rub play. There are plays in Madden set up like that (Curls Attack is one. There's a flood right play where two WR are running outs at different levels and one WR running deep - if they are playing Dime/Dollar man, it can rub them).

[KBLover]

Re: Madden 10: AskMadden Tip of the Week

So the release rating is what indicates how well they can get away from bump coverage? Makes sense. Ideally every team should have at least one WR with a high release rate then. I know when I play against good players in APF2K8 who employ Bump Coverage, I like to have a really good HB for flats / screens and a Bump Buster WR (especially true if my opponent is good at manual coverage).

Yeah, in theory the Madden equiv to Bump Buster would be a guy with 90+ RLS and ACC (quick jump off the snap and ability to get position on the press defender).

Not sure how well the rating works in Madden - but assuming it does, yeah I agree a WR with high RLS, RTE, and CTH - excellent possession/vs. blitz receiver, especially in the slot.

[Cap]

Guys,

The idea is simple. To beat man coverage you have to make the defender catch you, and run you down across the field as opposed to running up the field.

Watch the replay, no matter the speed on both sides our guys with atleast 5 speed attributes higher are in stride with the corners because of the bump. So what do we do? Run away from the bump and play to our strengths.

If you have undersized WRs that are quick and agile, why try to play to the defense's strengths? It's a concept, and it works. In Madden and in the NFL.

Any suggestions on what we should do for next week?

[Cap]

Guys,

The idea is simple. To beat man coverage you have to make the defender catch you, and run you down across the field as opposed to running up the field.

Watch the replay, no matter the speed on both sides our guys with atleast 5 speed attributes higher are in stride with the corners because of the bump. So what do we do? Run away from the bump and play to our strengths.

If you have undersized WRs that are quick and agile, why try to play to the defense's strengths? It's a concept, and it works. In Madden and in the NFL.

Any suggestions on what we should do for next week?

Also, forgot to mention that if you don't have a guy who can beat the bump (IE: Terrell Owens) you need to set a pick with bodies.

To beat man coverage in the NFL, they use flanker drive (Slot WR fade route, outside WR slant/drag) so that the cornerback has to run down the speedy WR. Doesn't have to be bump and run coverage for this tactic to come into play. Watch the Eagles play offense on Sunday.

Slow CB, can't bump = Streak routes, over the top
Slow CB, physical bump = drag routes and body picks
Fast CB, can't bump = curl routes and other big body routes

Football 101

[RyanMoody21]

Re: Madden 10: AskMadden Tip of the Week

Agility and / or route running should have been the determining factor in this play. Because its a "one cut" route, Woodson should have enough "route recongnition" to not be fooled. If Jackson could have made his cut faster than Woodson, he could have gotten the separation to get open. Thats assuming he could beat the jam. Speed shouldnt be the issue, you just watched Harris and Woodson run stride for stride 30 yards down the field after a jam.

This tip also has NOTHING to do with beating a physical DB's. I just tried it against Asomugha with the same results. Its got everything to do with confusing a CPU DB's by having them run directly into a player they arent covering. The CPU wont adapt so you can do this every single time and see the same or similar results.

The reason this is so effective is because the bunch formation has the 2nd WR on the line of scrimmage, the sideline route pretty much directs him into the path of the DB. When you have the the 2nd WR run a fly or post route, the "pick" doesnt occur because the WR doesnt run directly into the DB anymore.

This is a 15 yard "money play" each time. Unless the user is willing to alter the routes to prevent the "pick" from being set.

After watching the video, I am puzzled by how you can defend this with "Football 101".

[PGaither84]

The opening sentence told me this would be a comedic piece. "Madden has always mirrored the NFL. " Lol. Gets me every time.

Compression Offenses works in real life, but defenses can counter them in real life. It is much harder to counter this in madden because it is Madden.

If you need help moving the ball in Madden 10, you are either new, or are a scrub.

[dave374]

Re: Madden 10: AskMadden Tip of the Week

That video makes future HOF'er Woodson looks like the worst DB in the world and an unproven, underachieving WR look like the HOF'er.

Future Hall of Famer???

Did someone give me a sliding machine and not say anything?